FBI Says Covid-19 Most Likely A Leak From Lab

[Kathryn]

@Kathryn ,

If something prevents infection 90% of the time, and a person becomes infected after being exposed 91 times, then it's working!

Without knowing how many exposures you had, it really doesn't make sense to say the vaccine didn't work for you.

I don't even know where I picked it up, or what variant it was. We do know that the variants are becoming more contagious. 79 percent of Americans are vaccinated against COVID, but six in ten deaths in 2022 from COVID were in vaccinated people. So I'd say it's not all that effective as a vaccine. It may be as effective as a flu shot but good grief, the side effects are still often pretty severe. I promise you, I was sicker with the side effects from the booster than I was with COVID. Maybe the booster helped me, but maybe it didn't, who knows? Do you know?

I get a flu shot every year and never get sick from that - and I don't get the flu, any strain of it, either. Prior to the flu shot, I would get the flu every single year and even got pneumonia from it one year. I haven't had the flu in years and years now. I wasn't expecting to become so debilitated from a booster, believe me.

I seriously doubt I was exposed to COVID 91 times though. Maybe three or four times. But since people can be totally symptom free and spread it, who knows? Not you, not me, no one.

I know two families who got sick with COVID before the shots were introduced, during the initial infection of 2020. In both cases, though the sickest person in each family lost their sense of smell and didn't get it back for several months, they were not very sick, certainly not as sick as someone with the flu can be. The sickest person in each family wasn't very sick, actually. They ran a fever for a couple of days and then the fever went away. The other family members either never got sick or even tested positive, or only got sniffles.

I ran a fever for three days and tested positive for three days. Tested negative after that and before that, though I had sniffles and didn't feel all that great. Thankfully I never lost my sense of smell or taste though. You know what - my symptoms were exactly like those of a friend of mine whose husband came down with COVID (see above) before any shots were available. So she hadn't been vaccinated, clearly. She lived with her husband, slept in the same bed, etc. Neither she nor any other family members (there were two others in addition to her) ever felt very sick, and only she tested positive, for a few days. Then she tested negative again as did her husband.

I do know someone who DIED of COVID recently, or at least she had COVID when she died. OK so get this - her daughter, who lived with her and visited her in the hospital regularly, never got COVID. I don't know whether she has had the shots or not, but that doesn't even matter apparently because as I said in my earlier post, a person can be totally around someone else with COVID, even without any shots, and never get it. But here's another thing - just a few weeks before the mom got COVID, her daughter and I were talking about her and her daughter told me, "She is going to die in a few months, maybe even in a few weeks." You know why? Because she was already sick as a dog and needed oxygen - she had COPD and was elderly as well. We didn't expect her to live through 2023 and this was BEFORE she got COVID.

Oh well, I guess the hospital will be compensated for the mom's week of care.

She is the only person I have actually known who died with COVID or had to be hospitalized for the record, though I've known many, many people who have had COVID over the years.

 

[Kathryn]

And let's talk about the free Paxlovid treatment for COVID. I took it for one day and got so incredibly sick that I stopped it, and within a few hours, the side effects also stopped. If I had called my doctor, she would have told me to keep taking it, that the effects were from COVID, not the drug. But my 91 year old friend who also got it and was prescribed Paxlovid, never took it (even though, like me, she had been fully "vaccinated"). She also recovered quickly and totally. She also didn't have that weird metallic taste in her mouth, or stomach pains, or diarrhea. I had all that, for 24 hours, AFTER I tested positive and WHILE I was taking Paxlovid, which I immediately stopped. Those symptoms went away in a few hours and though I still tested positive for COVID for another day, while I had a low grade fever, I didn't have any more stomach cramps, no diarrhea, and no weird metallic taste in my mouth. Oh, and no rebound of symptoms 2 to 8 days later either, like so many people (including Biden) have had after taking Paxlovid for five days.

13 Things To Know About Paxlovid, the Latest COVID-19 Pill

Paxlovid is an oral antiviral pill used to treat COVID-19. Yale Medicine provides 13 things to know about this COVID-19 treatment.

www.yalemedicine.org

 

[Kathryn]

By the way, in case it sounds otherwise, I am not a sickly person. I have no pre existing health issues. I am up to date on all vaccines. I am a huge believer in 21st century medicine.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, not "just" after heart disease which killed 695,547 in 2022 or cancer, which killed 605,213 people in 2022, in the US. COVID was about 200,000 (or more) fewer people. 416,893 just to clarify, according to the CDC.

2020 and 2021 where the years referenced, not when 22, when deaths did slow due to vaccinations and became a problem more for the unvaccinated.

Perhaps and perhaps not. Here's what I know about viruses. They mutate. It does them no good to kill their host. They generally become more contagious and less deadly.

Perhaps we can go with real experts who study viruses and epidemics, and the stacks of research from across the world that show the restrictions did indeed help. It becomes more apparent when we see the reality places that had poor and halfassed responses (like America and Brazil) suffered way more than somewhere like New Zealand.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And let's talk about the free Paxlovid treatment for COVID. I took it for one day and got so incredibly sick that I stopped it, and within a few hours, the side effects also stopped. If I had called my doctor, she would have told me to keep taking it, that the effects were from COVID, not the drug.

I've never had a doctor tell me to keep taking something thats making me sick.
Why do you keep a doctor you assume you can't trust? You makes you think you'd be told to keep taking something giving you side effects?

 

[Kathryn]

I've never had a doctor tell me to keep taking something thats making me sick.
Why do you keep a doctor you assume you can't trust? You makes you think you'd be told to keep taking something giving you side effects?

The side effects from Paxlovid are often the very same as COVID. I mean, I didn't have any that weren't but even though I was still testing positive, within a few hours of stopping the medication, the newer symptoms, which were the same as COVID, went away. So I'm pretty sure the meds were giving me those symptoms (diarrhea, stomach cramps, metallic taste in mouth).

I think she would have looked at the symptoms and said "Those are the same as COVID. You have COVID. Keep taking the meds so it's not worse." I generally trust the medical establishment, but I think they are under pretty immense pressure since 2020.

 

[Kathryn]

2020 and 2021 where the years referenced, not when 22, when deaths did slow due to vaccinations and became a problem more for the unvaccinated.

Perhaps we can go with real experts who study viruses and epidemics, and the stacks of research from across the world that show the restrictions did indeed help. It becomes more apparent when we see the reality places that had poor and halfassed responses (like America and Brazil) suffered way more than somewhere like New Zealand.

I am going by the latest information I can find and posting those links. As I said, 79 percent of Americans are vaccinated now and in 2022 they made up 6 out of 10 deaths attributed to COVID.

 

[F1fan]

Meanwhile, I got my free prescription of Paxlovid when I got COVID. I took two doses of it and it made me INCREDIBLY sick. Ironically, most of the side effects listed were also listed as side effects of COVID so it was a bit confusing. All I know is that as soon as the meds got out of my system (several hours) I was fine again, even though I was still testing positive for COVID and was still puny - but hey, I no longer had a strange metallic taste in my mouth and I didn't have rampaging diahrrea or however you spell it anymore - I had those symptoms for the one day I took the Paxlovid but thankfully they subsided as soon as the meds were out of my system. You know what I had? Symptoms that were significantly less dsrupting than the flu, or even a sinus infection. Zero long term effects. But maybe I'm just lucky. Who knows? Anyway, I only tested positive for COVID for three days and I isolated myself for a week or more - don't recall the exact time frame but I followed my doctor's advice to a T. So that's my experience. This was after having three shots to keep from getting COVID. Within the past year. Still got it. Thankfully there was nothing to it for me.

Oh here's my experience with the shots - I got the first two (Pfizer, which made a bundle on this but I digress) and then I got another one about six months later. First shot, no negative effects. Second shot - fever for about twelve hours, slightly elevated temp for about twelve hours. THIRD ONE - I had a headache for FOUR STRAIGHT DAYS. It was pretty awful actually - nothing I took for it took the edge off it even. I didn't get the 4th shot because of the four days of a headache after the third one. It didn't matter - I got COVID in spite of the three shots (the last one within the last year). That's why I don't call a flu shot (which I get every year) a flu vaccine and that's why I don't call COVID shots vaccines either.

As has been stated already, the vaccine isn't a cure. It doesn't make you bulletproof, it gives you a bulletproof vest. It will stop a lot of bullets but you still might get hit. Vaccines ygive you an advantage, not complete protection. That you admit your Covid experience was minor is a good sign the vaccines you got worked for you. I would say those vaccines working is more evidence that you are the most spoiled woman ever.

 

[F1fan]

The side effects from Paxlovid are often the very same as COVID. I mean, I didn't have any that weren't but even though I was still testing positive, within a few hours of stopping the medication, the newer symptoms, which were the same as COVID, went away. So I'm pretty sure the meds were giving me those symptoms (diarrhea, stomach cramps, metallic taste in mouth).

I think she would have looked at the symptoms and said "Those are the same as COVID. You have COVID. Keep taking the meds so it's not worse." I generally trust the medical establishment, but I think they are under pretty immense pressure since 2020.

Vaccines jump start your immune system so that is why we experience similar things to the actual virus. Yes, there are side effects, but they tend to be much less worse than the actual illness. Good for you to not play Russian roulette with a virus that has a way of finding us eventually.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am going by the latest information I can find and posting those links.

Not the best choice in this regard because 2022 was a year when stats shifted to it mostly being unvaccinated people in the hospital and dying.

Some 80% of patients hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated

As the potential winter surge approaches, about 80% of COVID patients hospitalized at UC Davis Medical Center are unvaccinated, proving the shot and boosters are highly effective at preventing serious illness.

health.ucdavis.edu

Before last year, yes, covid deaths were way up and a top killer of Americans. Then the smart ones got vaccinated and the stats clearly shifted.

The side effects from Paxlovid are often the very same as COVID. I mean, I didn't have any that weren't but even though I was still testing positive, within a few hours of stopping the medication, the newer symptoms, which were the same as COVID, went away. So I'm pretty sure the meds were giving me those symptoms (diarrhea, stomach cramps, metallic taste in mouth).

I think she would have looked at the symptoms and said "Those are the same as COVID. You have COVID. Keep taking the meds so it's not worse." I generally trust the medical establishment, but I think they are under pretty immense pressure since 2020.

So you assume your doctor is an incompetent twit who won't listen to you? I get the concern, and I've certainly had doctors like that. Like those doctors telling me "it sounds like IBS" when I was reporting seeing blood in my stool. But I changed doctors.
Why haven't you gained evidence for your doctor's incompetence, and if you have why haven't you switched doctors?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As has been stated already, the vaccine isn't a cure. It doesn't make you bulletproof, it gives you a bulletproof vest. It will stop a lot of bullets but you still might get hit. Vaccines ygive you an advantage, not complete protection. That you admit your Covid experience was minor is a good sign the vaccines you got worked for you. I would say those vaccines working is more evidence that you are the most spoiled woman ever.

There's also the fact that working to prevent an illness is far more effective and ideal than just focusing on a treatment once your sick.

 

[F1fan]

There's also the fact that working to prevent an illness is far more effective and ideal than just focusing on a treatment once your sick.

Right. One thing that gets overlooked by the "let the virus run its natural course" folks is how virus will evolve into different versions, some less deadly and others more deadly. This means the herd immunity aim may not ever be acheived since the new forms will treat everyone as a new host. Obviously Covid is being arrested and slowed globally, and our bodies are more and more able to resist the infection. Trump got predictive models from Navarro when the pandemic started and his numbers expected 2-3 million dead in the USA if the government did nothing. Trump had no good option, and he eventually made a half hearted attempt to mitigate the spread. It was too late to slow it down, so the pandemic ended up being pretty bad, but not as bad as it could have been. Remember he did not set a national standard, but said states and cities should set their own, and this backfired as different states had different standards as citizens travelled.

 

[Kathryn]

So you assume your doctor is an incompetent twit who won't listen to you? I get the concern, and I've certainly had doctors like that. Like those doctors telling me "it sounds like IBS" when I was reporting seeing blood in my stool. But I changed doctors.
Why haven't you gained evidence for your doctor's incompetence, and if you have why haven't you switched doctors?

I just got over having COVID and the involuntary isolation from it for one thing. But I don't have a lot of faith in any doctor or medical personnel when it comes to COVID to be honest. I feel like they say what they are told to say.

I broke my right elbow in late 2020. I had to be admitted to the hospital. The hospital had to open up an entire wing that had been shut down, for me, and BEGGED doctors and nurses to come in from home. It was a skeleton staff, believe me. Not a single doctor or nurse wanted to be there. I did not have COVID. All "non essential surgeries" had been cancelled and the entire ward had been closed, but it had to open up again because my injury required surgery and it was involuntary at that. It was a very interesting time. (Also very painful.) I did not get COVID in the ER or in the hospital, or until a few weeks ago, for that matter. This was before any COVID shots were available to me.

 

[Kathryn]

There's also the fact that working to prevent an illness is far more effective and ideal than just focusing on a treatment once your sick.

And I didn't do that. I was vaccinated and boosted and didn't get sick with COVID (or anything else other than seasonal allergies to pollen) for many years.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Six in ten people who DIED of COVID in 2022 were vaccinated. So I would say to Pfizer - tweak your "vaccine" to make it more effective as a vaccine.

That may be. The problem is that you do not seem to understand how to use statistics properly.

Let's see why. We already know that this is a disease that kills mostly the elderly. One figure that I found said that at least 80% of deaths from covid are those over 60. In the US the vaccination rate is much higher for the elderly than it is for younger people. Now if the percentage of the elderly that were vaccinated roughly matched that six out of ten figure you might have somethig. But are only 60% of the elderly vaccinated?

Share of older adults fully or partially vaccinated against COVID-19 U.S. 2023 | Statista

As of April 26, 2023, the percentage of adults 65 years and older who were fully vaccinated against COVID-19 had reached 94 percent.

www.statista.com

Hmm, not according to that article. Over 95% have had at least one dose. over 94% are fully vaccinated. You Your odds of dying if unvaccinated are at least 5 times higher than if you were vaccinated. I would say that the vaccine is working pretty well.

 

[Kathryn]

Not the best choice in this regard because 2022 was a year when stats shifted to it mostly being unvaccinated people in the hospital and dying.

Some 80% of patients hospitalized with COVID are unvaccinated

As the potential winter surge approaches, about 80% of COVID patients hospitalized at UC Davis Medical Center are unvaccinated, proving the shot and boosters are highly effective at preventing serious illness.

health.ucdavis.edu

Before last year, yes, covid deaths were way up and a top killer of Americans. Then the smart ones got vaccinated and the stats clearly shifted.

In 2022, the stats did shift - to most people dying from COVID being vaccinated.

Why Do Vaccinated People Represent Most COVID-19 Deaths Right Now? | KFF

This post explores why the share of COVID-19 deaths among those who are vaccinated has risen, Factors include a rising share of the population that is vaccinated, waning immune protection and low uptake of boosters, and changes in immunity among the unvaccinated.

www.kff.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

In 2022, the stats did shift - to most people dying from COVID being vaccinated.

Why Do Vaccinated People Represent Most COVID-19 Deaths Right Now? | KFF

This post explores why the share of COVID-19 deaths among those who are vaccinated has risen, Factors include a rising share of the population that is vaccinated, waning immune protection and low uptake of boosters, and changes in immunity among the unvaccinated.

www.kff.org

And most people killed in car accidents were seatbelts. You do not understand statistics.

What you need to do is to look at the percentages properly. Compare the percentage of those that caught covid and died due to it that were vaccinated compared to the percentage that wer not. You will see that the vaccines still work. One is at least five times more likely to die from it if one is elderly if one is unvaccinated.

 

[Kathryn]

Oh every single person I know who has gotten COVID since 2021 has been vaccinated. I have only known one person to die from COVID, and she had serious, serious pre existing conditions and was elderly. So I wouldn't call the vaccines terribly effective. I mean, the people I knew BEFORE the vaccines came along also had mild cases of COVID.

 

[Kathryn]

And most people killed in car accidents were seatbelts. You do not understand statistics.

What you need to do is to look at the percentages properly. Compare the percentage of those that caught covid and died due to it that were vaccinated compared to the percentage that wer not. You will see that the vaccines still work. One is at least five times more likely to die from it if one is elderly if one is unvaccinated.

Actually, in 2020, more people were killed in car accidents NOT wearing seat belts than those wearing seat belts. Gotta go get dressed and get to work, so I can't continue this right now - sorry.

Seat Belts | NHTSA

Seatbelts significantly increases your chance of survival during a crash. Seatbelts are the safest choice drivers & passengers can make while driving.

www.nhtsa.gov

By the way, I've never stated that the shots don't lessen symptoms, even though anecdotally, I have only known one person to die from COVID. The vast, vast majority of folks I know who got it before, and after, the vaccines, experienced only a minor illness, including the elderly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, in 2020, more people were killed in car accidents NOT wearing seat belts than those wearing seat belts. Gotta go get dressed and get to work, so I can't continue this right now - sorry.

Seat Belts | NHTSA

Seatbelts significantly increases your chance of survival during a crash. Seatbelts are the safest choice drivers & passengers can make while driving.

www.nhtsa.gov

By the way, I've never stated that the shots don't lessen symptoms, even though anecdotally, I have only known one person to die from COVID. The vast, vast majority of folks I know who got it before, and after, the vaccines, experienced only a minor illness, including the elderly.

Then you do not know that many elderly. The early death rates in nursing homes was devastating. That is why nursing homes changed their protocols. Before vaccinations were available I was work in a nursing home. At the same time I got it, so did a coworker. She did not make it. You got Covid after being vaccinated. It was Covid-Lite. Try imagining it being several times worse. I would say that lowering the chances that one dies by a factor of over five is "working" wouldn't you? Yes it would be nice if it was perfect, but you misunderstand the claims of what vaccines do if you want to believe that.