Female al-Azhar prof: Allah allows Muslims to rape non-Muslim women

[use_your_brain]

LOL. The lengths you would go to justify the crimes of Muhammad.

Do you always consider having sex is a crime?

 

[Crypto2015]

Her comment is a stupid one regardless of being professor.

If what she said is true then Muslims should have raped the Spaniard women
during the Islamic empire which didn't happen, moreover Muslims, Christians
and Jews lived together for hundreds of years and there's no such stories
of mass rapes against people who weren't Muslims, that was extremely stupid

The Muslims did rape the Spanish women during the conquest of Spain. They used to send these women to other Islamic cities on the Mediterranean coast. Bear in mind that this professor is saying that sex slaves are OK if there is a war between Islam and another group of people. In other words, raping dimmhis (second class citizens under the "protection" of the Islamic state) is not Islamic.

"Whilst the Arabs have been acknowledged as a prime force in the early usage of slaves from Africa, very little has been written about their usage of White slaves, whether they were part of the Russian slave trade or those kidnapped by Arab pirates. However, in recent years, the research of some authors has been bringing this issue to light.[51]

David Brion Davis, in The New York Review of Books, explains that

• 
  
  "The origins of African slavery in the New World cannot be understood without some knowledge of the millennium of warfare between Christians and Muslims that took place in the Mediterranean and Atlantic and the piracy and kidnapping that went along with it. In 1627 pirates from the Barbary Coast of North Africa raided distant Iceland and enslaved nearly four hundred astonished residents. In 1617 Muslim pirates, having long enslaved Christians along the coasts of Spain, France, Italy, and even Ireland, captured 1,200 men and women in Portuguese Madeira. Down to the 1640s, there were many more English slaves in Muslim North Africa than African slaves under English control in the Caribbean. Indeed, a 1624 parliamentary proclamation estimated that the Barbary states held at least 1,500 English slaves, mostly sailors captured in the Mediterranean or Atlantic."[52]

Professor Robert Davis, in his book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800, estimated that 1 million to 1.25 million White people were enslaved by North African pirates between 1530 and 1780. North African pirates abducted and enslaved more Europeans from coastal villages and towns. Italy, Spain, Portugal and France were hardest hit but the raiders also seized people in Britain, Ireland and Iceland. They even captured 130 American seamen from ships that they boarded in the Atlantic and Mediterranean between 1785 and 1793.[53]"

"Ibn Hawqal, writing in the 970s, remarked that "among the most famous exports [from al-Andalus to other Muslim lands] are comely slaves, both male and female from Frankish and Galician regions" and that "all Slavic eunuchs on earth come from al-Andalus, because they are castrated in that region".[59]"

http://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves07.htm

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Muslims did rape the Spanish women during the conquest of Spain. They used to send these women to other Islamic cities on the Mediterranean coast. Bear in mind that this professor is saying that sex slaves are OK if there is a war between Islam and another group of people. In other words, raping dimmhis (second class citizens under the "protection" of the Islamic state) is not Islamic.

"Whilst the Arabs have been acknowledged as a prime force in the early usage of slaves from Africa, very little has been written about their usage of White slaves, whether they were part of the Russian slave trade or those kidnapped by Arab pirates. However, in recent years, the research of some authors has been bringing this issue to light.[51]

David Brion Davis, in The New York Review of Books, explains that

• 
  
  "The origins of African slavery in the New World cannot be understood without some knowledge of the millennium of warfare between Christians and Muslims that took place in the Mediterranean and Atlantic and the piracy and kidnapping that went along with it. In 1627 pirates from the Barbary Coast of North Africa raided distant Iceland and enslaved nearly four hundred astonished residents. In 1617 Muslim pirates, having long enslaved Christians along the coasts of Spain, France, Italy, and even Ireland, captured 1,200 men and women in Portuguese Madeira. Down to the 1640s, there were many more English slaves in Muslim North Africa than African slaves under English control in the Caribbean. Indeed, a 1624 parliamentary proclamation estimated that the Barbary states held at least 1,500 English slaves, mostly sailors captured in the Mediterranean or Atlantic."[52]

Professor Robert Davis, in his book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800, estimated that 1 million to 1.25 million White people were enslaved by North African pirates between 1530 and 1780. North African pirates abducted and enslaved more Europeans from coastal villages and towns. Italy, Spain, Portugal and France were hardest hit but the raiders also seized people in Britain, Ireland and Iceland. They even captured 130 American seamen from ships that they boarded in the Atlantic and Mediterranean between 1785 and 1793.[53]"

"Ibn Hawqal, writing in the 970s, remarked that "among the most famous exports [from al-Andalus to other Muslim lands] are comely slaves, both male and female from Frankish and Galician regions" and that "all Slavic eunuchs on earth come from al-Andalus, because they are castrated in that region".[59]"

http://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves07.htm

Ironbark Resources is a racist site:

"Ironbark Resources (incorporating the Australian Nationalism Information Database) is an educational resource to promote Australia's national identity and culture, and to offer criticism of mass immigration, multiculturalism, Asianisation and Islamification as major threats to our environment, our people, and our way of life. This educational resource was established in March 1998 as a service to the people of Australia.
A wide range of on-line publications and articles are provided on the above-mentioned issues, as well as on other issues of interest to Australian Nationalists. Links are provided to Nationalist organisations within Australia, as well as to media resources."

 

[Crypto2015]

Ironbark Resources is a racist site:

"Ironbark Resources (incorporating the Australian Nationalism Information Database) is an educational resource to promote Australia's national identity and culture, and to offer criticism of mass immigration, multiculturalism, Asianisation and Islamification as major threats to our environment, our people, and our way of life. This educational resource was established in March 1998 as a service to the people of Australia.
A wide range of on-line publications and articles are provided on the above-mentioned issues, as well as on other issues of interest to Australian Nationalists. Links are provided to Nationalist organisations within Australia, as well as to media resources."

Being against mass immigration or against Islam is not racism. Furthermore, even if they were racists, does that comprise the legimitimacy of the books they are citing?

 

[Crypto2015]

Do you always consider having sex is a crime?

It is if it involves women who have been stolen right from the dead fingers of their husbands and fathers.

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess.
Qur'an 4:3

"Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise."
Qur'an 4:24

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace te upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).
Sahih Muslim 8:3432

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sent a small army. The rest of the hadith is the same except this that he said: Except what your right hands possessout of them are lawful for you; and he did not mention" when their 'idda period comes to an end". This hadith has been reported on the authority of AbuSa'id (al-Khudri) (Allah be pleased with him) through another chain of transmitters and the words are: They took captives (women) on the day of Autas who had their husbands. They were afraid (to have sexual intercourse with them) when this verse was revealed:" And women already married except those whom you right hands posses" (iv. 24)
Sahih Muslim 8:3433, See also: Sahih Muslim 8:3433

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Being against mass immigration or against Islam is not racism. Furthermore, even if they were racists, does that comprise the legimitimacy of the books they are citing?

They are racists. They don't want non-whites coming to Australia to "pollute" their "pure" white genes. And, yes - being a racist does invalidate your argument because racism is a stupid, illogical, disproven ideology and racists have a habit of lying and distorting things in support of it. That book you quoted from was written by a racist, too. Andrew Guild is a "white nationalist" activist. He is not a historian or an academic.

(Besides, white Australians *****ing about non-whites coming to Australia is the height of hypocrisy as they stole that land from the indigenous peoples who have lived there for over 60,000 years, committed genocide (look at what happened to the native Tasmanians) and treated them as subhumans. There are now less than a million natives left. So they can **** off.)

If you agree with the stance of that site, then your opinion is just as worthless as theirs.

 

[FearGod]

The Muslims did rape the Spanish women during the conquest of Spain. They used to send these women to other Islamic cities on the Mediterranean coast. Bear in mind that this professor is saying that sex slaves are OK if there is a war between Islam and another group of people. In other words, raping dimmhis (second class citizens under the "protection" of the Islamic state) is not Islamic.

"Whilst the Arabs have been acknowledged as a prime force in the early usage of slaves from Africa, very little has been written about their usage of White slaves, whether they were part of the Russian slave trade or those kidnapped by Arab pirates. However, in recent years, the research of some authors has been bringing this issue to light.[51]

David Brion Davis, in The New York Review of Books, explains that

• 
  
  "The origins of African slavery in the New World cannot be understood without some knowledge of the millennium of warfare between Christians and Muslims that took place in the Mediterranean and Atlantic and the piracy and kidnapping that went along with it. In 1627 pirates from the Barbary Coast of North Africa raided distant Iceland and enslaved nearly four hundred astonished residents. In 1617 Muslim pirates, having long enslaved Christians along the coasts of Spain, France, Italy, and even Ireland, captured 1,200 men and women in Portuguese Madeira. Down to the 1640s, there were many more English slaves in Muslim North Africa than African slaves under English control in the Caribbean. Indeed, a 1624 parliamentary proclamation estimated that the Barbary states held at least 1,500 English slaves, mostly sailors captured in the Mediterranean or Atlantic."[52]

Professor Robert Davis, in his book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800, estimated that 1 million to 1.25 million White people were enslaved by North African pirates between 1530 and 1780. North African pirates abducted and enslaved more Europeans from coastal villages and towns. Italy, Spain, Portugal and France were hardest hit but the raiders also seized people in Britain, Ireland and Iceland. They even captured 130 American seamen from ships that they boarded in the Atlantic and Mediterranean between 1785 and 1793.[53]"

"Ibn Hawqal, writing in the 970s, remarked that "among the most famous exports [from al-Andalus to other Muslim lands] are comely slaves, both male and female from Frankish and Galician regions" and that "all Slavic eunuchs on earth come from al-Andalus, because they are castrated in that region".[59]"

http://www.ironbarkresources.com/slaves/whiteslaves07.htm

What historical sources you have which proves that the Spaniards were raped and enslaved by Muslims?

 

[morphesium]

which passage states "rape"?

Have you ever read Koran????????????????????

 

[FearGod]

It is if it involves women who have been stolen right from the dead fingers of their husbands and fathers.

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess.
Qur'an 4:3

You have to understand what the verses mean, starting with the first verse.

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess.
Qur'an 4:3

The verse is about orphans, it's a good deed as to care about them in Islam, the prophet said
that those who care about the orphans will have their way to heaven.

Now to care about the orphans then there's a need for a helper depending on what the number of orphans
one want to spend money on, God made a limit of 3 wives and if in a case that if he feared that he can't deal with
such helpers as wives, then he's allowed to get a paid helper, which what we call today as maids or domestic helpers.

 

[FearGod]

"Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise."
Qur'an 4:24

The 2nd verse is mistranslated, so i have to translate it according to my understanding of the Arabic language

۞ وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۖ كِتَابَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ ۚ وَأُحِلَّ لَكُمْ مَا وَرَاءَ ذَٰلِكُمْ أَنْ تَبْتَغُوا بِأَمْوَالِكُمْ مُحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ ۚ فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً ۚ وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِيمَا تَرَاضَيْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْ بَعْدِ الْفَرِيضَةِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا

In the previous verse (4:23) God mentioned the girls who can live with men in one closed place,
such as sisters, brother's daughters....etc, for verse (4:24), the other girls aren't allowed
to live with man in one closed place, in Arabic المحصنات , mistranslated as married woman.

So the verse says that for the المحصنات man should pay in order to have the marriage contract
except for those who work for you مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ in English "your helpers" you can have the contract without
payment as actually they were working and were paid by her boss.

 

[Crypto2015]

They are racists. They don't want non-whites coming to Australia to "pollute" their "pure" white genes. And, yes - being a racist does invalidate your argument because racism is a stupid, illogical, disproven ideology and racists have a habit of lying and distorting things in support of it. That book you quoted from was written by a racist, too. Andrew Guild is a "white nationalist" activist. He is not a historian or an academic.

(Besides, white Australians *****ing about non-whites coming to Australia is the height of hypocrisy as they stole that land from the indigenous peoples who have lived there for over 60,000 years, committed genocide (look at what happened to the native Tasmanians) and treated them as subhumans. There are now less than a million natives left. So they can **** off.)

If you agree with the stance of that site, then your opinion is just as worthless as theirs.

Well, even if they are racists, they are right about Islamic slavery. Is Wikipedia racist too?

"Arab slave trade was the practice of slavery in the Arab world, mainly in Western Asia, North Africa, Southeast Africa, the Horn of Africa and certain parts of Europe (such as Iberia and Sicily) beginning during the era of the Muslim conquests and continuing into the early second half of the 20th century.[1] The trade was conducted through slave markets in the Middle East, North Africa and the Horn of Africa, with the slaves captured mostly from Africa's interior.

Historians estimate that between 650 and the 1960s, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert."

"There is historical evidence of North African Muslim slave raids all along the Mediterranean coasts across Christian Europe and beyond to even as far north as the British Isles and Iceland (see the book titled White Gold by Giles Milton).[99] The majority of slaves traded across the Mediterranean region were predominantly of European origin from the 7th to 15th centuries.[100] The Barbary pirates continued to capture slaves from Europe and, to an extent, North America, from the 16th to 19th centuries."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade#European_texts_.2816th.E2.80.9319th_centuries.29

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, even if they are racists, they are right about Islamic slavery. Is Wikipedia racist too?

"Arab slave trade was the practice of slavery in the Arab world, mainly in Western Asia, North Africa, Southeast Africa, the Horn of Africa and certain parts of Europe (such as Iberia and Sicily) beginning during the era of the Muslim conquests and continuing into the early second half of the 20th century.[1] The trade was conducted through slave markets in the Middle East, North Africa and the Horn of Africa, with the slaves captured mostly from Africa's interior.

Historians estimate that between 650 and the 1960s, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert."

"There is historical evidence of North African Muslim slave raids all along the Mediterranean coasts across Christian Europe and beyond to even as far north as the British Isles and Iceland (see the book titled White Gold by Giles Milton).[99] The majority of slaves traded across the Mediterranean region were predominantly of European origin from the 7th to 15th centuries.[100] The Barbary pirates continued to capture slaves from Europe and, to an extent, North America, from the 16th to 19th centuries."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade#European_texts_.2816th.E2.80.9319th_centuries.29

I don't think anyone denies that Muslims have practiced slavery at various points in history. So did Christians.

 

[Crypto2015]

You have to understand what the verses mean, starting with the first verse.

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess.
Qur'an 4:3

The verse is about orphans, it's a good deed as to care about them in Islam, the prophet said
that those who care about the orphans will have their way to heaven.

Now to care about the orphans then there's a need for a helper depending on what the number of orphans
one want to spend money on, God made a limit of 3 wives and if in a case that if he feared that he can't deal with
such helpers as wives, then he's allowed to get a paid helper, which what we call today as maids or domestic helpers.

Blatant lie!!! You may easily deceive the useful idiots in this forum (apparently there are plenty of them), but you will have to try harder if you want to deceive me. This verse is about orphans, yes, but about orphan girls that the Muslim master wants to marry. This is what Aisha said about this verse:

"Narrated 'Urwa bin Az-Zubair:

That he had asked 'Aisha about the meaning of the Statement of Allah: "If you fear that you shall not Be able to deal justly With the orphan girls, then Marry (Other) women of your choice Two or three or four." (4.3)

She said, "O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate Mahr (bridal-money) which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable Mahr; otherwise they were ordered to marry any other woman." 'Aisha further said, "After that verse the people again asked the Prophet (about the marriage with orphan 'girls), so Allah revealed the following verses:-- 'They ask your instruction Concerning the women. Say: Allah Instructs you about them And about what is Recited unto you In the Book, concerning The orphan girls to whom You give not the prescribed portions and yet whom you Desire to marry..." (4.127)

What is meant by Allah's Saying:-- 'And about what is Recited unto you is the former verse which goes:-- 'If you fear that you shall not Be able to deal justly With the orphan girls, then Marry (other) women of your choice.' (4.3) 'Aisha said, "Allah's saying in the other verse:--'Yet whom you desire to marry' (4.127) means the desire of the guardian to marry an orphan girl under his supervision when she has not much property or beauty (in which case he should treat her justly). The guardians were forbidden to marry their orphan girls possessing property and beauty without being just to them, as they generally refrain from marrying them (when they are neither beautiful nor wealthy)."
Sahih Bukhari 3:44:674

All of the Tafsirs support this interpretation.

"(And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two) Allah commands, when one of you is the caretaker of a female orphan and he fears that he might not give her a dowry that is suitable for women of her status, he should marry other women , who are plenty as Allah has not restricted him. Al-Bukhari recorded that `A'ishah said, "A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this Ayah was revealed about his case;

﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ﴾

(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly) Al-Bukhari recorded that `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr said that he asked `A'ishah about the meaning of the statement of Allah,

﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِى الْيَتَـمَى﴾

(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls.) She said, "O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate dowry which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable dowry; otherwise they were ordered to marry woman besides them. `A'ishah further said, "After that verse, the people again asked the Messenger of Allah (about marriage with orphan girls), so Allah revealed the Ayah,

﴿وَيَسْتَفْتُونَكَ فِى النِّسَآءِ﴾

(They ask your instruction concerning the women..) ﴿4:127﴾. She said, "Allah's statement in this Ayah,

﴿وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ﴾

(yet whom you desire to marry) ﴿4:127﴾ refers to the guardian who does not desire to marry an orphan girl under his supervision because she is neither wealthy nor beautiful. The guardians were forbidden to marry their orphan girls possessing property and beauty without being just to them, as they generally refrain from marrying them (when they are neither beautiful nor wealthy).

﴿مَثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَاعَ﴾

(two or three, or four), means, marry as many women as you like, other than the orphan girls, two, three or four. We should mention that Allah's statement in another Ayah,

﴿جَاعِلِ الْمَلَـئِكَةِ رُسُلاً أُوْلِى أَجْنِحَةٍ مَّثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَـعَ﴾

(Who made the angels messengers with wings, - two or three or four) ﴿35:1﴾, does not mean that other angels do not have more than four wings, as there are proofs that some angels do have more wings. Yet, men are prohibited from marrying more than four wives, as the Ayah decrees, since the Ayah specifies what men are allowed of wives, as Ibn `Abbas and the majority of scholars stated. If it were allowed for them to have more than four wives, the Ayah would have mentioned it. Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim said that his father said that Ghilan bin Salamah Ath-Thaqafi had ten wives when he became Muslim, and the Prophet said to him, "Choose any four of them (and divorce the rest). During the reign of `Umar, Ghilan divorced his remaining wives and divided his money between his children. When `Umar heard news of this, he said to Ghilan, "I think that the devil has conveyed to your heart the news of your imminent death, from what the devil hears during his eavesdropping. It may as well be that you will not remain alive but for a little longer. By Allah! You will take back your wives and your money, or I will take possession of this all and will order that your grave be stoned as is the case with the grave of Abu Righal (from Thamud, who was saved from their fate because he was in the Sacred Area. But, when he left it, he was tormented like they were). Ash-Shafi`i, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Ad-Daraqutni and Al-Bayhaqi collected this Hadith up to the Prophet's statement, "Choose any four of them. Only Ahmad collected the full version of this Hadith. Therefore, had it been allowed for men to marry more than four women at the same time, the Prophet would have allowed Ghilan to keep more than four of his wives since they all embraced Islam with him. When the Prophet commanded him to keep just four of them and divorce the rest, this indicated that men are not allowed to keep more than four wives at a time under any circumstances. If this is the case concerning those who already had more than four wives upon embracing Islam, then this ruling applies even more so to marrying more than four.

﴿فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ﴾

(But if you fear that you will not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or what your right hands possess.) The Ayah commands, if you fear that you will not be able to do justice between your wives by marrying more than one, then marry only one wife, or satisfy yourself with only female captives, for it is not obligatory to treat them equally, rather it is recommended. So if one does so, that is good, and if not, there is no harm on him. In another Ayah, Allah said,

﴿وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُواْ أَن تَعْدِلُواْ بَيْنَ النِّسَآءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ﴾


(You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire) ﴿4:129﴾. Allah said,

﴿ذلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ﴾

(That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu), meaning, from doing injustice. Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn Marduwyah and Abu Hatim Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih, recorded that `A'ishah said that, the Prophet said that the Ayah,

﴿ذلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ﴾

(That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu), means, from doing injustice. However, Ibn Abi Hatim said that his father said that this Hadith to the Prophet is a mistake, for it should be attributed to `A'ishah not the Prophet . Ibn Abi Hatim reported from Ibn `Abbas, `A'ishah, Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Abu Malik, Abu Razin, An-Nakha`i, Ash-Sha`bi, Ad-Dahhak, `Ata' Al-Khurasani, Qatadah, As-Suddi and Muqatil bin Hayyan that Ta`ulu means to deviate ﴿from justice﴾.

Ali bin Abi Talhah reported Ibn `Abbas saying, Nihlah, in Allah's statement,

﴿وَءَاتُواْ النِّسَآءَ صَدُقَـتِهِنَّ نِحْلَةً﴾

(And give to the women (whom you marry) their Saduqat Nihlah) refers to the dowry. Muhammad bin Ishaq narrated from Az-Zuhri that `Urwah said that `A'ishah said that `Nihlah' means `obligatory'. Muqatil, Qatadah and Ibn Jurayj said, `Nihlah' means `obligatory' Ibn Jurayj added: `specified.' Ibn Zayd said, "In Arabic, Nihlah, refers to what is necessary. So Allah is commanding: Do not marry unless you give your wife something that is her right. No person after the Prophet is allowed to marry a woman except with the required dowry, nor by giving false promises about the dowry ﴿intended﴾. Therefore, the man is required to pay a dowry to his wife with a good heart, just as he gives a gift with a good heart. If the wife gives him part or all of that dowry with a good heart, her husband is allowed to take it, as it is lawful for him in this case. This is why Allah said afterwards,

﴿فَإِن طِبْنَ لَكُمْ عَن شَىْءٍ مِّنْهُ نَفْساً فَكُلُوهُ هَنِيئاً مَّرِيئاً﴾

(But if they, of their own pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it, and enjoy it without fear of any harm.)

 

[Crypto2015]

I don't think anyone denies that Muslims have practiced slavery at various points in history. So did Christians.

Only Islam provides scriptural support for slavery. By the way, you are wrong when you say that Muslims "practiced slavery at various points in history". The truth is that Muslims ALWAYS practised slavery, and if they stopped doing it for a certain period of time, it was because the British forced them to.

"Arab slave trade was the practice of slavery in the Arab world, mainly in Western Asia, North Africa, Southeast Africa, the Horn of Africa and certain parts of Europe (such as Iberia and Sicily) beginning during the era of the Muslim conquests and continuing into the early second half of the 20th century"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

The "era of the Muslim conquests" is right after Islam was founded.

 

[FearGod]

Blatant lie!!! You may easily deceive the useful idiots in this forum (apparently there are plenty of them), but you will have to try harder if you want to deceive me. This verse is about orphans, yes, but about orphan girls that the Muslim master wants to marry. This is what Aisha said about this verse:

"Narrated 'Urwa bin Az-Zubair:

That he had asked 'Aisha about the meaning of the Statement of Allah: "If you fear that you shall not Be able to deal justly With the orphan girls, then Marry (Other) women of your choice Two or three or four." (4.3)

She said, "O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate Mahr (bridal-money) which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable Mahr; otherwise they were ordered to marry any other woman." 'Aisha further said, "After that verse the people again asked the Prophet (about the marriage with orphan 'girls), so Allah revealed the following verses:-- 'They ask your instruction Concerning the women. Say: Allah Instructs you about them And about what is Recited unto you In the Book, concerning The orphan girls to whom You give not the prescribed portions and yet whom you Desire to marry..." (4.127)

What is meant by Allah's Saying:-- 'And about what is Recited unto you is the former verse which goes:-- 'If you fear that you shall not Be able to deal justly With the orphan girls, then Marry (other) women of your choice.' (4.3) 'Aisha said, "Allah's saying in the other verse:--'Yet whom you desire to marry' (4.127) means the desire of the guardian to marry an orphan girl under his supervision when she has not much property or beauty (in which case he should treat her justly). The guardians were forbidden to marry their orphan girls possessing property and beauty without being just to them, as they generally refrain from marrying them (when they are neither beautiful nor wealthy)."
Sahih Bukhari 3:44:674

All of the Tafsirs support this interpretation.

"(And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two) Allah commands, when one of you is the caretaker of a female orphan and he fears that he might not give her a dowry that is suitable for women of her status, he should marry other women , who are plenty as Allah has not restricted him. Al-Bukhari recorded that `A'ishah said, "A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this Ayah was revealed about his case;

﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ﴾

(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly) Al-Bukhari recorded that `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr said that he asked `A'ishah about the meaning of the statement of Allah,

﴿وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِى الْيَتَـمَى﴾

(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls.) She said, "O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate dowry which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable dowry; otherwise they were ordered to marry woman besides them. `A'ishah further said, "After that verse, the people again asked the Messenger of Allah (about marriage with orphan girls), so Allah revealed the Ayah,

﴿وَيَسْتَفْتُونَكَ فِى النِّسَآءِ﴾

(They ask your instruction concerning the women..) ﴿4:127﴾. She said, "Allah's statement in this Ayah,

﴿وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ﴾

(yet whom you desire to marry) ﴿4:127﴾ refers to the guardian who does not desire to marry an orphan girl under his supervision because she is neither wealthy nor beautiful. The guardians were forbidden to marry their orphan girls possessing property and beauty without being just to them, as they generally refrain from marrying them (when they are neither beautiful nor wealthy).

﴿مَثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَاعَ﴾

(two or three, or four), means, marry as many women as you like, other than the orphan girls, two, three or four. We should mention that Allah's statement in another Ayah,

﴿جَاعِلِ الْمَلَـئِكَةِ رُسُلاً أُوْلِى أَجْنِحَةٍ مَّثْنَى وَثُلَـثَ وَرُبَـعَ﴾

(Who made the angels messengers with wings, - two or three or four) ﴿35:1﴾, does not mean that other angels do not have more than four wings, as there are proofs that some angels do have more wings. Yet, men are prohibited from marrying more than four wives, as the Ayah decrees, since the Ayah specifies what men are allowed of wives, as Ibn `Abbas and the majority of scholars stated. If it were allowed for them to have more than four wives, the Ayah would have mentioned it. Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim said that his father said that Ghilan bin Salamah Ath-Thaqafi had ten wives when he became Muslim, and the Prophet said to him, "Choose any four of them (and divorce the rest). During the reign of `Umar, Ghilan divorced his remaining wives and divided his money between his children. When `Umar heard news of this, he said to Ghilan, "I think that the devil has conveyed to your heart the news of your imminent death, from what the devil hears during his eavesdropping. It may as well be that you will not remain alive but for a little longer. By Allah! You will take back your wives and your money, or I will take possession of this all and will order that your grave be stoned as is the case with the grave of Abu Righal (from Thamud, who was saved from their fate because he was in the Sacred Area. But, when he left it, he was tormented like they were). Ash-Shafi`i, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Ad-Daraqutni and Al-Bayhaqi collected this Hadith up to the Prophet's statement, "Choose any four of them. Only Ahmad collected the full version of this Hadith. Therefore, had it been allowed for men to marry more than four women at the same time, the Prophet would have allowed Ghilan to keep more than four of his wives since they all embraced Islam with him. When the Prophet commanded him to keep just four of them and divorce the rest, this indicated that men are not allowed to keep more than four wives at a time under any circumstances. If this is the case concerning those who already had more than four wives upon embracing Islam, then this ruling applies even more so to marrying more than four.

﴿فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ﴾

(But if you fear that you will not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or what your right hands possess.) The Ayah commands, if you fear that you will not be able to do justice between your wives by marrying more than one, then marry only one wife, or satisfy yourself with only female captives, for it is not obligatory to treat them equally, rather it is recommended. So if one does so, that is good, and if not, there is no harm on him. In another Ayah, Allah said,

﴿وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُواْ أَن تَعْدِلُواْ بَيْنَ النِّسَآءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ﴾


(You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire) ﴿4:129﴾. Allah said,

﴿ذلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ﴾

(That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu), meaning, from doing injustice. Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn Marduwyah and Abu Hatim Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih, recorded that `A'ishah said that, the Prophet said that the Ayah,

﴿ذلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ﴾

(That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu), means, from doing injustice. However, Ibn Abi Hatim said that his father said that this Hadith to the Prophet is a mistake, for it should be attributed to `A'ishah not the Prophet . Ibn Abi Hatim reported from Ibn `Abbas, `A'ishah, Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Abu Malik, Abu Razin, An-Nakha`i, Ash-Sha`bi, Ad-Dahhak, `Ata' Al-Khurasani, Qatadah, As-Suddi and Muqatil bin Hayyan that Ta`ulu means to deviate ﴿from justice﴾.

Ali bin Abi Talhah reported Ibn `Abbas saying, Nihlah, in Allah's statement,

﴿وَءَاتُواْ النِّسَآءَ صَدُقَـتِهِنَّ نِحْلَةً﴾

(And give to the women (whom you marry) their Saduqat Nihlah) refers to the dowry. Muhammad bin Ishaq narrated from Az-Zuhri that `Urwah said that `A'ishah said that `Nihlah' means `obligatory'. Muqatil, Qatadah and Ibn Jurayj said, `Nihlah' means `obligatory' Ibn Jurayj added: `specified.' Ibn Zayd said, "In Arabic, Nihlah, refers to what is necessary. So Allah is commanding: Do not marry unless you give your wife something that is her right. No person after the Prophet is allowed to marry a woman except with the required dowry, nor by giving false promises about the dowry ﴿intended﴾. Therefore, the man is required to pay a dowry to his wife with a good heart, just as he gives a gift with a good heart. If the wife gives him part or all of that dowry with a good heart, her husband is allowed to take it, as it is lawful for him in this case. This is why Allah said afterwards,

﴿فَإِن طِبْنَ لَكُمْ عَن شَىْءٍ مِّنْهُ نَفْساً فَكُلُوهُ هَنِيئاً مَّرِيئاً﴾

(But if they, of their own pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it, and enjoy it without fear of any harm.)

I ain't deceiving you or anyone in this forum, we're debating.

I don't need to look out for what stories were behind the verse if any.

That being said, the interpretation doesn't make sense because it means that men are only
allowed to marry the orphan girls and not other women which doesn't make sense and
also not the case in the Muslim world.

The verse differentiate between orphans and women, otherwise the verse should say that
you can marry one orphan and 2 orphans...etc, but the verse says marry a woman
and not orphan, so it doesn't need a smart mind to understand it and i don't need
to deceive you but i can debate you and prove you wrong by wisdom and not by
looking to ancient stories, the quran is clear but it needs open minds.

 

[Crypto2015]

I ain't deceiving you or anyone in this forum, we're debating.

I don't need to look out for what stories were behind the verse if any.

That being said, the interpretation doesn't make sense because it means that men are only
allowed to marry the orphan girls and not other women which doesn't make sense and
also not the case in the Muslim world.

The verse differentiate between orphans and women, otherwise the verse should say that
you can marry one orphan and 2 orphans...etc, but the verse says marry a woman
and not orphan, so it doesn't need a smart mind to understand it and i don't need
to deceive you but i can debate you and prove you wrong by wisdom and not by
looking to ancient stories, the quran is clear but it needs open minds.

OK. I see that you were just giving me your personal interpretation. The problem is that your interpretation is not the right one. All of the interpretations provided by Muhammad's companions (e.g., Aisha) and by the most renowned Islamic scholars (e.g., Al-Tabari) disprove what you are saying. So, your interpretation is wrong.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

People without oriental experience think they know everything,like you . She does not represent Islam,she is nothing. Well,sorry,she is something;yes, she terrorizes hopeless communities on behalf of God. Pls do not teach me what a professor is. I have plenty of them in my family.

What is oriental experience...?
I worked amongst many Muslims for ten years. And I have lived in Hong kong, but I certainly do not think of myself as an expert on either religion or race.
I would not dream of teaching you anything.
This nor any other professor represents Islam, however she does express views that would go down well with with extreemists and ISIS.
The reaction she has managed to raise in you, shows that she is getting through, and creating a knee jerk.
She is not doing this on behalf of God. What ever she and her supporters might believe.

 

[FearGod]

OK. I see that you were just giving me your personal interpretation. The problem is that your interpretation is not the right one. All of the interpretations provided by Muhammad's companions (e.g., Aisha) and by the most renowned Islamic scholars (e.g., Al-Tabari) disprove what you are saying. So, your interpretation is wrong.

Because you wanted it to be and not because it's.

 

[Crypto2015]

Because you wanted it to be and not because it's.

Because Muhammad's companions and the best scholars in the history of Islam tell a completely different story. You are trying to deceive me.

 

[FearGod]

Because Muhammad's companions and the best scholars in the history of Islam tell a completely different story. You are trying to deceive me.

Lol, why i have to.
They (his companions & best scholars) believe that Muhammad is the messenger of God will you agree with them then.