Feminist only: how important is it to "sell" feminism to others?

[MysticSang'ha]

Yep! And also the problem I find with straight men who come to feminism in general, they seem to be concerned with how women view men, what women think of them, are women resentful towards men in their spare time, is there "misandry" taking place here, then the actual fact the straight men are the biggest threat to women, and EACHOTHER!! MIND YOU!!!!!

I hear ya.

When I've attended black power slam poetry events or was a part of the Black Lives Matter movement, I know the urge to want to say something and speak, as a white woman, at these events. The problem with that urge is that I'm coming into a space that was created specifically for people of color to finally say what they experience without any sense of a White Dominant Front barging in and describing how "life really is."

So I do my best to listen, absorb, and stand in solidarity with them. If I say anything, I do my best to reflect back what I hear and to offer an understanding and my support.

I dunno. I'm still unpacking my privilege myself. Funny how I have so much to learn.

I have the assumption that men have the same struggle, albeit not with perspective from skin color, but gendered perspective, when entering into a feminist space. I assume the urge to offer their male perspective is very very strong, given that so much of social structures and cultural perspectives are from male perspectives, dialogues, and male-male negotiations in the public sphere.

LOL even Steve Harvey wrote a book on relationships for women called "Act Like a Woman, Think Like a Man." I mean...how obnoxious is THAT?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I keep coming back to this:

Educate, educate, educate. Just like I felt and still feel in regards to queer rights.

I find that educating is particularly difficult for a woman with my philosophy. I would rather not interact too much with certain kinds of straight male feminists. I actually prefer talking to female and trans and gay male radfems online, and supporting each other emotionally. I'm not a therapist or anything but I've been trained on how to support people emotionally, and I like to do that for women and radical allies online, especially if they have been sexually assaulted.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I find that educating is particularly difficult for a woman with my philosophy. I would rather not interact too much with certain kinds of straight male feminists. I actually prefer talking to female and trans and gay male radfems online, and supporting each other emotionally. I'm not a therapist or anything but I've been trained on how to support people emotionally, and I like to do that for women and radical allies online, especially if they have been sexually assaulted.

That's awesome. We've run into these conversations as well at our local group. The need to carve out a "female-only" space for a sense of safety. "How helpful is that?" we ask, and is it even possible?

So in spite of how inclusive we wish to be, to fight oppressive systems, and to face the intersectionality of privilege and marginalizations, we still find ourselves with concerns such as yours where there needs to be a safe space for women only. And as one can easily see, these are very difficult conversations to have and even more difficult structures to develop.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

That's awesome. We've run into these conversations as well at our local group. The need to carve out a "female-only" space for a sense of safety. "How helpful is that?" we ask, and is it even possible?

So in spite of how inclusive we wish to be, to fight oppressive systems, and to face the intersectionality of privilege and marginalizations, we still find ourselves with concerns such as yours where there needs to be a safe space for women only. And as one can easily see, these are very difficult conversations to have and even more difficult structures to develop.

Yeah, it's very complicated. But I will continue to stand by how I feel, that the best thing men could do is focus on each other rather than policing women's anger and resentment.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Yep! And also the problem I find with straight men who come to feminism in general, they seem to be concerned with how women view men, what women think of them, are women resentful towards men in their spare time, is there "misandry" taking place here, then the actual fact the straight men are the biggest threat to women, and EACHOTHER!! MIND YOU!!!!!

As a cisgendered straight male who considers himself a feminist (or feminist ally, if that's what you want to call it) and who also believes that feminism should first and foremost be about women's rights rather than how women feel about men, I find most of the above statements too generalizing. I think the only people who would benefit from that kind of generalization and "us vs. them" mentality are the misogynists and misandrists.

 

[Debater Slayer]

No women should not, and I already said I disagree with a lot of radical feminists say about transwomen. That being said I disagree with some aspects of trans ideology too. But transwomen experience trans misogyny which crosses over to homophobia. Straight women have part privilege when it comes to the homophobia part. I would call out straight women especially. My point is when you come into a WOMAN'S movement (a movement that prioritises WOMEN and is for WOMEN) you should stick to what you should be doing as a man. I don't like to compare oppressions all the time but let's say with all the drama that happens with the LGBT movement, as a mostly straight woman I would focus on being a good ally rather than focus on creating ideology within that movement, despite whether or not I thought the "gays were being meanie to each other" I would respect their space.
The problem with what Robert Jensen did, is that his privilege can create a ripple effect where straight men who come to radical feminism think they should be arguing with transwomen all day, when transwomen are a minority and it's actually straight men who are the biggest threat to women. It allows them to turn their attentions away from improving themselves and each other, which is what they should be doing.

I see. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

As a cisgendered straight male who considers himself a feminist (or feminist ally, if that's what you want to call it) and who also believes that feminism should first and foremost be about women's rights rather than how women feel about men, I find most of the above statements too generalizing. I think the only people who would benefit from that kind of generalization and "us vs. them" mentality are the misogynists and misandrists.

I could be wrong, but that's what I've witnessed, mostly it's subtle though, and usually takes the form policing how women say things. I would also add that 2 opposing views can both be wrong but they are not necessarily equal. Misogyny is the biggest and most destructive threat to people lives. I haven't ever come across a female feminist who thinks men are inferior by birth and nature. I mostly hear that from women who are not feminists or women who say they are feminists but haven't read any feminist philosophy what so ever.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I could be wrong, but that's what I've witnessed, mostly it's subtle though, and usually takes the form policing how women say things.

This has been very noticeable on the forums for a while now. I'm absolutely sure that some people would police posts in this very thread if it weren't for the fact that this is a restricted forum section.

I would also add that 2 opposing views can both be wrong but they are not necessarily equal. Misogyny is the biggest and most destructive threat to people lives. I haven't ever come across a female feminist who thinks men are inferior by birth and nature. I mostly hear that from women who are not feminists or women who say they are feminists but haven't read any feminist philosophy what so ever.

I doubt there aren't any female feminists who think that men are inherently inferior to women. There are fringe nutters in every movement, so finding some of those among feminists wouldn't surprise me. But it is undeniable that there are many misandrists, both inside and outside different feminist movements.

I think all forms of discrimination are destructive threats to people's lives. Misogyny, however, is particularly dangerous because of how common it is compared to most other forms of discrimination.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

This has been very noticeable on the forums for a while now. I'm absolutely sure that some people would police posts in this very thread if it weren't for the fact that this is a restricted forum section.



I doubt there aren't any female feminists who think that men are inherently inferior to women. There are fringe nutters in every movement, so finding some of those among feminists wouldn't surprise me. But it is undeniable that there are many misandrists, both inside and outside different feminist movements.

I think all forms of discrimination are destructive threats to people's lives. Misogyny, however, is particularly dangerous because of how common it is compared to most other forms of discrimination.

I would say all forms of discrimination are destructive but aren't equally destructive. I was just saying I haven't come across a feminist before who thinks men are born inferior, so my guess it's an extremely rare way of thinking.
And the women I've known who have thought women are naturally superior are extremely contradictory and will also make misogynistic statements like telling their sons to stop crying because they sound like a girl. It's mostly a case of them being treated like crap by the men in their lives and the men in their family that they claim superiority to feel better about what's happened to them. However they would rarely even have the power to discriminate against men systematically.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I would also like to say, that men who are pro feminist, I don't believe should only focus on women's issues. I am all for men making safe spaces for other men who are victims of violence as long as those spaces are not anti-feminist. I think it would be extremely helpful, if men cut out all the "man up" "no homo" crap was able to be affectionate with one another and not just comfortable around other men only when they are expressing anger. I think that would also help how men interact with women.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I would also like to say, that men who are pro feminist, I don't believe should only focus on women's issues. I am all for men making safe spaces for other men who are victims of violence as long as those spaces are not anti-feminist. I think it would be extremely helpful, if men cut out all the "man up" "no homo" crap was able to be affectionate with one another and not just comfortable around other men only when they are expressing anger. I think that would also help how men interact with women.

I completely agree.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Today I came across a picture that describes exactly why I feel that feminist organizations just shouldn't be run by a majority of men.