Finally. Good riddance to Obamacare.

[esmith]

If corporate/business taxes are lowered, are you willing to make up the difference in lost revenues? And if the wall is to be built, are you willing to pay for that as well as we're dealing with building almost 2000 miles of wall?

And do you honestly believe Mexico is going to pay for that wall? Hey, he's already changed his "tune" on that.

One: Neither you or I know what the impact of lowering corporate taxes will be. We do know that corporations are leaving the country due to high taxes and onerous regulations
Two: A wall does not necessarily have to be a physical structure. In certain areas it will work and in others it will not. Let's wait and see.

 

[tytlyf]

One positive does not necessarily indicate that the whole is positive.
The problem is accountability. We have always seen that in the public union sector that accountability is not always the first priority.
Example you want? OK
Another VA problem? Union workers

Not really, republicans in congress are against the VA. They vote against veteran bills that would help them. Additionally, republicans will cut VA spending. Republicans hate spending. They do know how to play the veteran card tho.

We do know that corporations are leaving the country due to high taxes and onerous regulations

That's not true at all. That's what Hannity and the rest of the echo chamber repeats. As Trump has demonstrated, corporations pay nearly nothing in taxes. The government (republicans in congress) have created 'loopholes' and ways to get around paying taxes which are legal.
Which makes sense, since the only people voting republican should be the top 1%.

Corporations leave because it's cheaper to hire workers elsewhere. Much cheaper.

Obama was able to create over 11 million new jobs.

 

[Twilight Hue]

'No' as in 'I would be fine with a single-payer system' or 'No' as in 'I would certainly oppose a single-payer system' ?
Please do clarify what you meant.

I never referred to single payer. Just finding a structure that is equitable and acceptable.

 

[Koldo]

I never referred to single payer. Just finding a structure that is equitable and acceptable.

You still didn't answer my question though.
Can you elaborate what would such a structure look like ?
If people aren't to be forced to pay neither to the private sector nor to the public sector, how is the healthcare going to be funded ?

 

[esmith]

Not really, republicans in congress are against the VA. They vote against veteran bills that would help them. Additionally, republicans will cut VA spending. Republicans hate spending. They do know how to play the veteran card tho.

That's not true at all. That's what Hannity and the rest of the echo chamber repeats. As Trump has demonstrated, corporations pay nearly nothing in taxes. The government (republicans in congress) have created 'loopholes' and ways to get around paying taxes which are legal.
Which makes sense, since the only people voting republican should be the top 1%.

Corporations leave because it's cheaper to hire workers elsewhere. Much cheaper.

Obama was able to create over 11 million new jobs.

I have only one permissible thing to say

 

[tytlyf]

I have only one permissible thing to say

You can laugh. Your drive-by media doesn't cover that. Which is why you think it's a lie. Oh well, you fell for the corporate 'veteran card.' Please feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You still didn't answer my question though.
Can you elaborate what would such a structure look like ?
If people aren't to be forced to pay neither to the private sector nor to the public sector, how is the healthcare going to be funded ?

Good question actually. I used to like Canada's model, but upon closer inspection found it not so great as I once thought it was.

They don't cover dental, pharmaceutical, and optician expenses, and Canadians still pay premiums. Kind of took the wind out of the sail at that point, but they do regulate costs so things like medicine are cheaper in comparison to the costs over here in the states.

I think the Goverment goes after the wrong people imv. They need to control the practices of price gouging for starters across the board that spirals healthcare costs into complete unaffordability. Not extract revenue indiscriminately by acquisitioning a money source outright without first looking at the systemic issues as to why healthcare is so insanely expensive in the first place.

I think such a system should include price controls or at least alternative venues that provide a better choice for those who wouldn't mind a more generic healthcare venue. Also the categorization of critical healthcare needs vs general needs healthcare overall in terms on how much coverage is allotted respectively. Perhaps a pay in system that pools personal earnings that an individual can draw from that helps defray the overall costs. Bit like a co-op structure.

 

[metis]

IMO and the opinion of many others in the field, the single biggest mistake this country made in this arena was to have our entire system run on a for-profit basis. We have the most expensive health-care system in the world (17% of GDP), and yet we don't even have universal coverage.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It already is a right to the extent a person cannot be refused essential healthcare that threatens life and limb regardless of insurance. Long before Obama enacted all this by force.

What happens if someone has cancer, but no insurance?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, i believe carbolic and laudnum were very sound medicine.

They're not enough to treat or cure everything.

And FYI: Both of those things are "engineered medications."

If by "medical freedom" you mean the freedom to freely obtain any medications, no, that is something no one should be able to do. Many things cannot even be self-diagnosed, many things have many misconceptions about what will treat them, and it can be very dangerous because most Americans do not have the knowledge even basic things like differences in types of antibiotics, when certain ones can be used, and which ones can be fatal for certain people.

Most North Americans can't even take antibiotics properly in the first place.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What happens if someone has cancer, but no insurance?

I'd say cancer is covered.

The Right to Treatment – Healthcare

 

[ShivaFan]

If corporate/business taxes are lowered, are you willing to make up the difference in lost revenues? And if the wall is to be built, are you willing to pay for that as well as we're dealing with building almost 2000 miles of wall?

And do you honestly believe Mexico is going to pay for that wall? Hey, he's already changed his "tune" on that.

Good news today. Trump is not falling for the trick of the NeverTrump GOPe and their "sequential" Obamacare approach (viz repeal but then do nothing, claim to want to replace over a 3 year period but real goal is to walk Trump into a landmine over years wasting time and causing outrage such that nothing else ever gets done).

It appears Rand Paul has the parallel approach (viz repeal AND REPLACE with the same stroke) and the anti-establishment Reps and Nationalists like it.

So it looks like Trumpcare is coming sooner, and perhaps lowering taxes (which Paul Ryan was just told that is priority one, not Obamacare trick) and the wall and Trumpcare can all happen at the same period.

Right now many of us have volunteered to give donations of our own money and own free will to build the wall as soon as possible. I have commited to donating tbousands of dollars. I am not alone, not even close. The wall will be built, and we consider it an investment in our future.

 

[Koldo]

Good question actually. I used to like Canada's model, but upon closer inspection found it not so great as I once thought it was.

They don't cover dental, pharmaceutical, and optician expenses, and Canadians still pay premiums. Kind of took the wind out of the sail at that point, but they do regulate costs so things like medicine are cheaper in comparison to the costs over here in the states.

I think the Goverment goes after the wrong people imv. They need to control the practices of price gouging for starters across the board that spirals healthcare costs into complete unaffordability. Not extract revenue indiscriminately by acquisitioning a money source outright without first looking at the systemic issues as to why healthcare is so insanely expensive in the first place.

I think such a system should include price controls or at least alternative venues that provide a better choice for those who wouldn't mind a more generic healthcare venue.

Wouldn't that be anathema to the free market that you support ?

Also the categorization of critical healthcare needs vs general needs healthcare overall in terms on how much coverage is allotted respectively. Perhaps a pay in system that pools personal earnings that an individual can draw from that helps defray the overall costs. Bit like a co-op structure.

I don't understand what you meant here.
Are you proposing two different categories in the framework of Obamacare ?

 

[metis]

So it looks like Trumpcare is coming sooner, and perhaps lowering taxes (which Paul Ryan was just told that is priority one, not Obamacare trick) and the wall and Trumpcare can all happen at the same period.

If you read any of the economic analysis of what would happen if the ACA was repealed while keeping a couple of its components, then you might realize how financially disastrous that would be since there are cost-reduction factors that were built in, including the mandates. Eliminate those mandates and medical costs would skyrocket.

Right now many of us have volunteered to give donations of our own money and own free will to build the wall as soon as possible. I have commited to donating tbousands of dollars. I am not alone, not even close. The wall will be built, and we consider it an investment in our future.

I drove part of that area along the wall down in Arizona, and let me just tell you that all you'll be doing is throwing your money away. But it's your $, so go for it I guess.

There is another way of dealing with this that is far more sensible and workable, such as issuing very heavy fines and maybe even prison time if an employer hires an undocumented worker. So, why don't the Republicans get something like this passed? Well, guess which party a majority of these large farm owners support?

IOW, it's all about $ and power.

 

[tytlyf]

Right now many of us have volunteered to give donations of our own money and own free will to build the wall as soon as possible. I have commited to donating tbousands of dollars. I am not alone, not even close. The wall will be built, and we consider it an investment in our future.

What do you think the wall will accomplish? You don't care that the government will seize private land from people near the border?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Wouldn't that be anathema to the free market that you support ?



I don't understand what you meant here.
Are you proposing two different categories in the framework of Obamacare ?

There are already price and regulatory controls in the free market already. It may not prove popular as it would be yet another hurdle in the eyes of ceos and shareholders to maintain and maximise profit margins. So sure bet people will hate it in that light. Givin the choices and the nature and sensitivity of healthcare, this particular area of the free market it boils down to profit vs. equanimity and stability.

I'm not against universality in healthcare per say, but it's obvious single payer alone won't work no more than letting free markets steer the course of what can be considered an essential and critical component of our society.

There needs to be maybe a type of hybrid system developed that combines universality with profitability of something like that if it is even workable that falls in the framework of constitutionality that preserves the critical freedoms that people enjoy. Tall order.

 

[Koldo]

There are already price and regulatory controls in the free market already.

It is not so 'free' after all.

It may not prove popular as it would be yet another hurdle in the eyes of ceos and shareholders to maintain and maximise profit margins. So sure bet people will hate it in that light. Givin the choices and the nature and sensitivity of healthcare, this particular area of the free market it boils down to profit vs. equanimity and stability.

I'm not against universality in healthcare per say, but it's obvious single payer alone won't work no more than letting free markets steer the course of what can be considered an essential and critical component of our society.

There needs to be maybe a type of hybrid system developed that combines universality with profitability of something like that if it is even workable that falls in the framework of constitutionality that preserves the critical freedoms that people enjoy. Tall order.

Let me see if I got this straight.
You would like healthcare to be accessible to everyone and you want that to be done through the private sector.
To prevent the free market forces from setting the price way high though, you want the government to intervene and force it down.
And you don't want to give anything in return for that.
Is that correct ?

 

[Milton Platt]

Trump plans issue of executive orders to put this horrid monster called Obamacare to rest.

Good bye to bad rubbish

Trump plans to quickly issue executive orders on Obamacare

Hopefully bipartisan teamwork can produce something everyone can live with and not just those who feel privileged or entitled.

Thoughts?

Well, they have had nearly 8 years and don't have the first sentence drafted, so..........?

 

[Twilight Hue]

It is not so 'free' after all.


Let me see if I got this straight.
You would like healthcare to be accessible to everyone and you want that to be done through the private sector.
To prevent the free market forces from setting the price way high though, you want the government to intervene and force it down.
And you don't want to give anything in return for that.
Is that correct ?

I'm a proponent of free market wholeheartedly but in cases where restrictions and controls need to be in place , I just don't want to see people personally raped through their wallet and have their economic freedom without penalty to choose for themselves taken through the barrel of a gun like Obama did to so many Americans under a veil of lies and deceit, yet further coupled as if it couldn't get any worse, imposed a mandated perpetual debt on everyone that cannot ever be paid in full.

What a way to live your life in what is coined as being, The land of the free.

Straw that broke the camels back that ensured Trump's victory.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well, they have had nearly 8 years and don't have the first sentence drafted, so..........?

Yea really. *grin* :0)

They are out. Republicans turn at bat.