Finding Materialism Too Dull?

[Debater Slayer]

Years ago, when I still believed in demons and, consequently, paranormal phenomena, I found stories of "haunted houses," "possessions," "exorcisms," etc., to be interesting and rather terrifying. I also sometimes found a bright side to them: after all, the idea that a "possessed" person could be fully and fairly quickly cured of suffering through an exorcism was a comforting one, especially since I had heard stories of similar cures benefiting not-so-distant relatives.

Nowadays, though, I find such stories generic and fictional due to my materialism. The thing is that while I'm a materialist, I sometimes find myself wishing paranormal phenomena were real in some cases, such as ones where an "exorcism" is alleged to be a cure-all for a specific problem a person has. Also, exorcism and possession aside, the idea that there's more to life than what we can readily observe is pretty fascinating.

Am I the only person who sometimes finds materialism a bit too dull despite being an advocate of it? Put differently, are there materialists here who wish paranormal phenomena were real and scientific?

Note: I considered putting this thread in the Non-Theists Only forum, but I decided to put it here instead to have input from more people as well as opinions from believers in the paranormal. Everyone's input is welcome here.

 

[Rival]

I thought this was going to be a joke thread.

"Finding Materialism too dull? Purchase another -ism for only £200*!"

*Not including VAT and charges go up 20% after 1st Tevet.

 

[Mister Silver]

Am I the only person who sometimes finds materialism a bit too dull despite being an advocate of it?

I think it is why I personally enjoy reading fiction as well as watching fiction movies and television shows. My favorite book genre is horror and the supernatural; Dean Koontz and Anne Rice. My favorite movies are horror and supernatural in nature as well. Some of my favorite television shows are Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Charmed, The X-Files, Supernatural.

Put differently, are there materialists here who wish paranormal phenomena were real and scientific?

No. Through my materialism I can understand the difference between fantasy and reality enough for me to enjoy the fantasy for that which it is; merely fantasy created for the purpose of entertainment.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I thought this was going to be a joke thread.

"Finding Materialism too dull? Purchase another -ism for only £200*!"

*Not including VAT and charges go up 20% after 1st Tevet.

Oh, you... the only succubus who I believe is real.

*smacks Rival*

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think it is why I personally enjoy reading fiction as well as watching fiction movies and television shows. My favorite book genre is horror and the supernatural; Dean Koontz and Anne Rice. My favorite movies are horror and supernatural in nature as well. Some of my favorite television shows are Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Charmed, The X-Files, Supernatural.



No. Through my materialism I can understand the difference between fantasy and reality enough for me to enjoy the fantasy for that which it is; merely fantasy created for the purpose of entertainment.

I find the horror genre quite interesting as well. The scare factor has gone down by a lot for me compared to when I believed paranormal phenomena could actually happen, however. Even if presented in a movie, some common horror/supernatural themes, such as exorcism, are purported to be real by many people, so I didn't treat them as entirely fictional before.

 

[Kemosloby]

The horror genre was replaced years ago by Karaoke. Ever try that?

 

[Debater Slayer]

The horror genre was replaced years ago by Karaoke. Ever try that?

No. I doubt karaoke is more horrifying than rap anyway, especially if you're a fan of proper English.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I was a materialist for a good portion of my life and I guess that even though it does a good job of explaining why the world is the way it is, materialism doesn’t offer very much about abstract human concepts of a spiritual or psychological nature. We can explain through materialism how brains work but not why one person’s mind believes in an atheistic world and the other a theistic and so on. It’s probably enough for some people who don’t need spirituality but many humans have a belief in something “more” or “greater”. As a skeptic I’m unsure if one is necessarily “better” at explaining the world than the other... maybe it depends on what world you believe in.

 

[idav]

Years ago, when I still believed in demons and, consequently, paranormal phenomena, I found stories of "haunted houses," "possessions," "exorcisms," etc., to be interesting and rather terrifying. I also sometimes found a bright side to them: after all, the idea that a "possessed" person could be fully and fairly quickly cured of suffering through an exorcism was a comforting one, especially since I had heard stories of similar cures benefiting not-so-distant relatives.

Nowadays, though, I find such stories generic and fictional due to my materialism. The thing is that while I'm a materialist, I sometimes find myself wishing paranormal phenomena were real in some cases, such as ones where an "exorcism" is alleged to be a cure-all for a specific problem a person has. Also, exorcism and possession aside, the idea that there's more to life than what we can readily observe is pretty fascinating.

Am I the only person who sometimes finds materialism a bit too dull despite being an advocate of it? Put differently, are there materialists here who wish paranormal phenomena were real and scientific?

Note: I considered putting this thread in the Non-Theists Only forum, but I decided to put it here instead to have input from more people as well as opinions from believers in the paranormal. Everyone's input is welcome here.

Yeah i have a sort of personal test that if it sounds too fascinating it probably didn't happen lol. I've always been into horror and sci fi lots of interesting things happen in them, not in real life. I do wish sometimes strange stuff happened every now and again, not anything too scary crazy but some paranaormal would be nice, get some daily paranormal event on the news would be way cooler than tr.mp etc.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I dunno. Universe, life, and its mysteries sometimes come across as so freaking bizarre you don't really need the Paranormal. There's enough material in real life as it is! ;0)

 

[David T]

Years ago, when I still believed in demons and, consequently, paranormal phenomena, I found stories of "haunted houses," "possessions," "exorcisms," etc., to be interesting and rather terrifying. I also sometimes found a bright side to them: after all, the idea that a "possessed" person could be fully and fairly quickly cured of suffering through an exorcism was a comforting one, especially since I had heard stories of similar cures benefiting not-so-distant relatives.

Nowadays, though, I find such stories generic and fictional due to my materialism. The thing is that while I'm a materialist, I sometimes find myself wishing paranormal phenomena were real in some cases, such as ones where an "exorcism" is alleged to be a cure-all for a specific problem a person has. Also, exorcism and possession aside, the idea that there's more to life than what we can readily observe is pretty fascinating.

Am I the only person who sometimes finds materialism a bit too dull despite being an advocate of it? Put differently, are there materialists here who wish paranormal phenomena were real and scientific?

Note: I considered putting this thread in the Non-Theists Only forum, but I decided to put it here instead to have input from more people as well as opinions from believers in the paranormal. Everyone's input is welcome here.

Mythology old tired worn out

Spoiler

But materialism seems so superficial,

Science seems so accurate cold

Gomez and morticia so ImPossible.

Which leads modern man to a funk of dispare

Which I say get out to nature

and if you are very lucky you will discover mother nature kind of like this.

Spoiler

Oh so beautiful.

 

[David T]

Mythology old tired worn out

Spoiler

View attachment 19466

But materialism seems so superficial, View attachment 19467
Science seems so accurate cold
View attachment 19468

Gomez and morticia so ImPossible.
View attachment 19469
Which leads modern man to a funk of dispare
View attachment 19471
Which I say get out to natureView attachment 19472 and if you are very lucky you will discover mother nature kind of like this.

Spoiler

View attachment 19474

Oh so beautiful.

I love the censoring effect!!! You know Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was censored!!!

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Years ago, when I still believed in demons and, consequently, paranormal phenomena, I found stories of "haunted houses," "possessions," "exorcisms," etc., to be interesting and rather terrifying. I also sometimes found a bright side to them: after all, the idea that a "possessed" person could be fully and fairly quickly cured of suffering through an exorcism was a comforting one, especially since I had heard stories of similar cures benefiting not-so-distant relatives.

Nowadays, though, I find such stories generic and fictional due to my materialism. The thing is that while I'm a materialist, I sometimes find myself wishing paranormal phenomena were real in some cases, such as ones where an "exorcism" is alleged to be a cure-all for a specific problem a person has. Also, exorcism and possession aside, the idea that there's more to life than what we can readily observe is pretty fascinating.

Am I the only person who sometimes finds materialism a bit too dull despite being an advocate of it? Put differently, are there materialists here who wish paranormal phenomena were real and scientific?

Note: I considered putting this thread in the Non-Theists Only forum, but I decided to put it here instead to have input from more people as well as opinions from believers in the paranormal. Everyone's input is welcome here.

I agree with you that paranormal/supernatural beliefs are intriguing. But really no benefit in believing in them in the absence of evidence. Of course my mind is always open.

 

[bobhikes]

Try to find the actual root of something. Materialist tend to stop when the scientific knowledge ends and satisfied that science will resolve the problem in the future. Try to resolve some yourself. Look at all the crazy information on the internet see what has value and what doesn't. Find some new unproven or proven scientific theories and see if they can be adapted to resolve the problems

Some good ones,
What is Music and how is it made.
What is consciousness and how is it made.
Why is God so prevalent in society(real reasons for it)
Maybe you already have some, like why do people see ghosts so often or what is the root of demons

You could work for years on all of this and it wouldn't be boring at all if your interested in them and maybe you could make a break through no one else has.

 

[Kapalika]

I dunno. Materialism always seemed weird to me in the same way idealism is. In a lot of ways I'm close to neutral monism but I'm technically not monist (nondual emenationalism is the term I'd use).

That said, I don't find comfort in the idea of possession as that means it's largely out of your control, and just always seemed to me an easy way to try to experience some idea of an instant cure. To me, the idea of possession and harmful spirits is terrifying.

I tend to get a sense of uneasyness sometimes, and ward off the sense of something harmful near me with magical techniques. A lot of that 'something harmful' I know comes from within the mind, one's own "personal demons" come to manifest, if that makes sense (there is a lot of magical theory on this process particularly when one starts to practice a lot of black magic like I do). They are not really demons, it's more like a nightmare you see when awake. Magic is often like doing lucid dreaming but when awake. So I think such "demons" come from the same source in our minds as nightmares do.

I guess really my experience with black magic tells me that no, when really faced with it, it isn't comforting. I'd much prefer the exploration of the mind and transformative aspects of magic without the worry of freaking myself out which sometimes happens. That said it's a known risk for serious practioners of the Left Hand Path. It's why historically it was esoteric, at least in the East. Too easy to lead to sin or madness if you are not trained properly.

I'd prefer materialism to be true over demons around every corner and possession being in all these people. At least when it's natural there is a degree of control you have over how you handle it. With possession free will is taken entirely away. However I prefer over materialism, the balance I have where I can explore the reality of the mind and magic ,without the untrue and irrational fear that demons are responsible for all of our problems, mental health or otherwise.

So no I don't believe in it, but I also don't believe in materialism. Both to me seem like "dull", perhaps "too easy" of answers. The mind a lot more complicated than people give it credit for. I don't know if materialism can fully reduce the mind to material, since at a certain point subjectivity and qualia escape quantification.

 

[Willamena]

Am I the only person who sometimes finds materialism a bit too dull despite being an advocate of it? Put differently, are there materialists here who wish paranormal phenomena were real and scientific?

You could try idealism. It stands in contrast to materialism and spiritualism, and allows for ideas (like love, phenomena, and compound interest) to be real.

 

[Laika]

Am I the only person who sometimes finds materialism a bit too dull despite being an advocate of it?

If you are looking for an intellectual challenge with materialism, you may want to give this book a read. Its the best text on soviet-materialist philosophy I could recommend. If you don't like it, you should reconsider materialism as it wont get better than this.

Materialism is better used as a tool for opening doors to discovering new ideas or seeing old ideas in a new light, rather than closing doors and shutting yourself down intellectually. We tend to do the latter because we tell ourselves thinking something isn't "rational" or "scientific" and that's probably why you find materialism so dull. That's not all it can do though.

If you want to explain the paranormal in a materialist way, it can be done and you can aim for the best of both worlds. materialism is at its most interesting when it makes you see the familiar in a new way. There is nothing stopping you from finding the awe and wonder of the natural world by wanting to understand the mysterious and unknown.

There is so much that we don't know and there can be something profound and spiritual in accepting that even with materialism. The trick is to find a way to travel to the edge of the known world and figure out if it really inhabited by monsters or if they were always just part of our imagination. Give it a chance.

[The book was copied to PDF with permission of the publisher so its not a copyright issue in case you're wondering.]

 

[Quintessence]

This one finds materialism to be utter rubbish, but nevertheless, if you are finding it too dull... well... pay attention more. Reality is full of wonders, regardless of how you classify them.

 

[Laika]

This one finds materialism to be utter rubbish, but nevertheless, if you are finding it too dull... well... pay attention more. Reality is full of wonders, regardless of how you classify them.

Given that philosophical materialism is a close relative of pantheism (in which matter is treated as having consciousness, or reality is identical with divinity) I find that a little surprising for a Pagan. They aren't identical by any means, but do share a common root if you will. I believe there is overlap in not treating man as having a unique or special place in the universe for a relationship with the divine or the creator. The difference is materialism would specify that consciousness comes from the brain as a special organisation of matter, whereas pantheism would not limit it in such a way.

I think people can find materialism offensive in how often it treat religious and spiritual worldviews as nonsensical. That is usually to do with eliminative materialism which treats mental states as non-existent and that can be nihilistic but is not representative of materialism as a whole.

Is there a particular reason you find materialism "utter rubbish"? Is it simply you find it incompatible with your own beliefs? Or do you think the scientific evidence for materialism is inconclusive or wrong?

 

[Quintessence]

Given that philosophical materialism is a close relative of pantheism...

News to me; I've never viewed it that way. Not seeing this "common root" you allege, unless we're talking specifically about naturalistic pantheism (which is not the kind of pantheism common amongst Pagans).

Is there a particular reason you find materialism "utter rubbish"? Is it simply you find it incompatible with your own beliefs? Or do you think the scientific evidence for materialism is inconclusive or wrong?

Incompatible? Nah. Scientific evidence? Irrelevant - it's a philosophical question, not a scientific one (that many materialists think it's anything otherwise is rather annoying, come to think of it).

I think it's utter rubbish because its nonsensical. I literally cannot comprehend how someone could think that something like an idea reduces to atoms. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. To me, it's as nonsensical as claiming that all colors rendered by our eyes reduce to ultraviolet or something. Materialism is taking one wavelength of the spectrum of reality, fixating on it, and claiming it's the foundation of it all. If the story is somehow meaningful to you, great, but to me it's just complete nonsense. In no small fashion, any sort of substance monism (not just materialism) is nonsensical to me for the same general reasons why monotheism is nonsensical to me. I'm a pluralist - I think in multiples and am a polytheist at core. Reducing stuff down to singularity never makes sense to me. Also, it's extremely boring.