Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You can't have interaction without something to interact... Again what starts the process? Everything we see in the universe has a beginning.
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First cause of the universe.
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
Please define 'order' and 'chaos'.
For example, water can spontaneously freeze. The 'chaotic' liquid becomes a much more 'orderly' solid.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It does all of the time. Why do you think that it doesn't? I know, you have been listening to fools that do not understand the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
Once again a simple snowflake refutes your claim.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
So where did the energy for the BB come from?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Not. It freezes because of a reaction to the temperature. Nothing spontaneous about it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is actually a properly asked question. You asked "What" instead of "Who". Even if we do not know that is not evidence for a God. Do you understand that? Your need to find actual "God evidence" if you want to have a reasonable claim that one exists.
Would you consider ice a more or less ordered form of water?
Edit: Late response on my part. Question already asked.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
A snow flake is designed. You are looking at it backwards. The snowflakes only exist because of a complex system that is clearly the result of design.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You appear to be using an inconsistent definition of "spontaneous". There is strong evidence that life arose due to natural chemical reactions. I guess by your definition that was not "spontaneous" either.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You certainly have no better explanation.
Attachments
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Twice.Would you consider ice a more or less ordered form of water?
Edit: Late response on my part. Question already asked.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, actually I do. We see natural reactions all of the time. We do not see any God reactions. That life, the universe and everything (42) arose due to natural processes does appear to be a better answer.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
It doesn't say anything about how everything came to be... it's just an expansion of already existing energy.
You assume there needs to be something to 'start' the process.
On the contrary, the formation of matter/anti-matter pairs happens spontaneously and out of nothing. This is a measured phenomenon.
One of the difficulties in this discussion is that precise language is required to accurately relate the different possibilities.
For example, the phrase 'has a beginning' can mean several different things:
1. there was a time when the thing did not exist. At a later time it did.
2. the thing did not exist for an infinite amount of time in the past.
3. there is an instant of time when it comes into existence. In other words, it did not exist before, but it did exist after that time.
These are three different notions.
For example, 2 could happen without 1 if time itself only goes finitely far into the past. 1 could happen without 3 if time is not continuous.
There is also the relation of these to the notion of 'being caused', which means there was some prior event or circumstance that, through the laws of physics, gives rise to the thing. Notice that causality requires both time and physical laws.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Atheism is even less of a source...to be precise
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Because nothing does .. spontaneous generation of life was disproved a long time ago.
No energy was 'already existing'. That phrase implies a prior time and in the standard Big bang scenario, there was no prior time.
Energy has always existed whenever there was time.
Ultimately, I don't think there *can be* an explanation of why there is something instead of nothing.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nope. A snowflake simply follows physical laws. There is no evidence of design.
You need to find evidence of design. But then, you probably do not understand the concept.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No it wasn't. You are completely confused. Spontaneous generation is not abiogenesis. Spontaneous generation was the idea that modern complex life forms arose spontaneously. That was w shown to be wrong.
Yeah, every non-ism isn't anything. Atheism is "not being a theist". Why would you need to explain to the group that it's not a thing?Atheism is even less of a source...to be precise
But thanks for agreeing that scripture isn't a reliable source.