Flat Earth, fact or fiction

[siti]

There is many things that are invisible.

Yes - logical thought is invisible and often entirely undetectable - perhaps it is not there at all.

 

[Kemosloby]

i

How would a chûg - which means a flat scribed circle, - hanging in space, - make the CHUG into a sphere?

EDIT - Forgot to mention the other two in your paragraph.

I've already shown that CHUG - meaning a scribed flat circle, - is used in Isaiah 40.

Pro 8:27 also uses CHUG - meaning a flat scribed circle - not a sphere. Also from a "bird's eye view" oceans do not look like spheres. To these ancient people - water bodies appeared flat, - on their flat world, - scribed by the hand of YHVH.

Below is the King James Translation showing it means scribed.

KJV Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

*

If you had enough chugs you could make a sphere, How else would you except a series of scribed circles? And a compass can also be used for measuring distance, it doesn't have to make circles.

 

[psychoslice]

Surely no intelligent person would believe in such things ?.

 

[BSM1]

Yes - logical thought is invisible and often entirely undetectable - perhaps it is not there at all.

There is a good deal of logic in this thought.

 

[james bond]

i

How would a chûg - which means a flat scribed circle, - hanging in space, - make the CHUG into a sphere?

EDIT - Forgot to mention the other two in your paragraph.

I've already shown that CHUG - meaning a scribed flat circle, - is used in Isaiah 40.

Pro 8:27 also uses CHUG - meaning a flat scribed circle - not a sphere. Also from a "bird's eye view" oceans do not look like spheres. To these ancient people - water bodies appeared flat, - on their flat world, - scribed by the hand of YHVH.

Below is the King James Translation showing it means scribed.

KJV Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

*

Well, we've found somebody who believes the earth is flat from reading the Bible.

 

[james bond]

How odd is it, then, to discover that every human group across the history of this planet who never even heard of the Bible managed to get that part right? Every human culture -- if it was going to survive -- quickly learned to cover their excrement and avoid sick people.

Stop pretending your own Bible is the only source for that. And kindly remember that through most of human history, one of the most prominent sources of human misery and death was an appalling lack of oral hygiene -- they mostly died (if they weren't killed by other humans) from problems caused by their teeth! And the bible doesn't even bother to mention that!

Show me the evidence for what you claim like the good atheist you are haha.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Your examples are both modern ha ha.

Sure, I can give you an example of how the Bible is not a science book, but science backs up the Bible. Take viruses or bacteria for example. It would not be understood by people in the 3rd century as it was discovered later. The Bible talks about infectious diseases in


"Leviticus 13:46

He shall remain unclean all the days during which he has the infection; he is unclean. He shall live alone; his dwelling shall be outside the camp."

It talks about sanitation in

"Deuteronomy 23:12–13

12 You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there,

13 and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement."

I don't science means what you think it means.

 

[james bond]

I don't science means what you think it means.

I don't think it means what YOU think it means.

History shows science was created by Christians who wanted to honor God.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

History shows science was created by Christians who wanted to honor God.

Oh my god, I didn't know that. You've made me see the light with your unassailable logic and intellectual argumentation. There's no way I can deny now. Jesus, I've found you! JESUS! HALLELUJAH!

 

[QuestioningMind]

There is many things that are invisible. Right? Please.
Regards.

Yes there ARE many invisible things... but that doesn't answer the question of whether YOU believe in invisible unicorns, does it? Do You? If you DON'T then is your lack of belief in invisible unicorns is like a rocket which fails to get off the ground because the engine is made of fantasies?

 

[Ingledsva]

If you had enough chugs you could make a sphere, How else would you except a series of scribed circles? And a compass can also be used for measuring distance, it doesn't have to make circles.

Nothing you have said changes the facts. It doesn't matter how many flat circles you scribe. And it also does not say multiple scribed circles.

They believed the earth was flat.

CHUG is a FLAT scribed circle.

DUR and HUG are spherical shapes.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

No matter how high the mountain - you can't see the other side of the spherical earth. They thought it was flat, and thus they thought they could get high enough to see it all.

Job 11:9 The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

NOTE in the quote below by Paul Seely, an Evangelical scholar - another word they could have used for a spherical shape - HUG.

"The Geographical Meaning of Earth Seas in Genesis 1:10
by Paul Seely:

"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe. I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth. This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of. If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "

For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat."

*

 

[sovietchild]

Oh my god, I didn't know that. You've made me see the light with your unassailable logic and intellectual argumentation. There's no way I can deny now. Jesus, I've found you! JESUS! HALLELUJAH!

Great, I'm glad you like one of the prophets of Islam - let's talk sometimes.

 

[Kemosloby]

Nothing you have said changes the facts. It doesn't matter how many flat circles you scribe. And it also does not say multiple scribed circles.

They believed the earth was flat.

CHUG is a FLAT scribed circle.

DUR and HUG are spherical shapes.

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

No matter how high the mountain - you can't see the other side of the spherical earth. They thought it was flat, and thus they thought they could get high enough to see it all.

Job 11:9 The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.

NOTE in the quote below by Paul Seely, an Evangelical scholar - another word they could have used for a spherical shape - HUG.

"The Geographical Meaning of Earth Seas in Genesis 1:10
by Paul Seely:

"There is one verse in the OT, however, which has often been cited at least by laymen as a proof that the earth was understood to be a globe. I refer to Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth. This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word (hug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of. If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "

For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat."

*

A compass cannot draw a sphere. If the creator used a compass "or a metaphor' describing creation. He would have to draw chug's. Like the lines on a globe to form a sphere. So to use the word Chug shows it was in the process of creation not the finished work.

 

[Ingledsva]

A compass cannot draw a sphere. If the creator used a compass "or a metaphor' describing creation. He would have to draw chug's. Like the lines on a globe to form a sphere. So to use the word Chug shows it was in the process of creation not the finished work.

Pure bull as shown, - and not supported by the Hebrew text.

Did you even notice that that quote saying no sphere in that text, - was from a CHRISTIAN?

Again - the word in Pro 8:27 being TRANSLATED as compass, or circle, - is ACTUALLY - CHUG, - which means a scribed flat circle.

*

 

[Kemosloby]

Pure bull as shown, - and not supported by the Hebrew text.

Did you even notice that that quote saying no sphere in that text, - was from a CHRISTIAN?

Again - the word in Pro 8:27 being TRANSLATED as compass, or circle, - is ACTUALLY - CHUG, - which means a scribed flat circle.

*

Proverbs 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

So if he was looking at the horizon of the Ocean it would be accurate and observant that it had a curve like that made by a compass. The horizon line is a chug.

 

[Ingledsva]

Proverbs 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

So if he was looking at the horizon of the Ocean it would be accurate and observant that it had a curve like that made by a compass. The horizon line is a chug.

Baloney.

You can't add crap that isn't there, to the original text.

It says the earth is flat, - which is way the heavens can be as a tent above it, - and why they thought if they climbed the highest mountain they could see all of the earth. Obviously not possible with a spherical world.

EDIT - Forgot to add that Pro 8:27 isn't talking about an earth ocean.

*

 

[siti]

FWIW at this stage - in the 6th-8th centuries BC - when the first bits of the OT were being cobbled together, the prevailing view (it seems) was probably that the earth was flat. However, at least by the end of the 6th century BC this was being challenged and by the time of Aristotle (4th century BC) the spherical earth was fairly well established. By the time the NT was being cut and paste, no educated person would have thought of the earth as flat, its roundness having been clearly established in writing with clear observational evidence (relative positions of stars from different locations on earth, the shape of the shadow of the earth on the moon during an eclipse etc.) for five centuries by then. The idea of a flat earth was revived briefly and, for most people entirely insignificantly) in the middle ages ONLY on the basis of OT scripture - i.e. the interpretation of the word "chug" which - as far as anyone can tell - always meant a flat circle. But it's all irrelevant in any case because the Bible was not talking about the shape of the earth, but God's relationship to humans - so who cares whether 'Isaiah' really believed the earth was flat or not - 'he' was (inspired or not) writing poetically for a religious audience not a scientific treatise on geography.

 

[Ingledsva]

FWIW at this stage - in the 6th-8th centuries BC - when the first bits of the OT were being cobbled together, the prevailing view (it seems) was probably that the earth was flat. However, at least by the end of the 6th century BC this was being challenged and by the time of Aristotle (4th century BC) the spherical earth was fairly well established. By the time the NT was being cut and paste, no educated person would have thought of the earth as flat, its roundness having been clearly established in writing with clear observational evidence (relative positions of stars from different locations on earth, the shape of the shadow of the earth on the moon during an eclipse etc.) for five centuries by then. The idea of a flat earth was revived briefly and, for most people entirely insignificantly) in the middle ages ONLY on the basis of OT scripture - i.e. the interpretation of the word "chug" which - as far as anyone can tell - always meant a flat circle. But it's all irrelevant in any case because the Bible was not talking about the shape of the earth, but God's relationship to humans - so who cares whether 'Isaiah' really believed the earth was flat or not - 'he' was (inspired or not) writing poetically for a religious audience not a scientific treatise on geography.

The writer of Matthew, writing most likely sometime after 60 AD, (though some Christians claim 40's) still believed the earth was flat.

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

We also know from writings, that many people at the time of Columbus' sailing, still thought ships would fall of the edge of the earth.

Hard to wrap the head around, when it was known for centuries that the earth was a spherical shape. (lack of education for the masses I guess.)

In 230 B.C., Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth.

*

 

[Kemosloby]

Baloney.

You can't add crap that isn't there, to the original text.

It says the earth is flat, - which is way the heavens can be as a tent above it, - and why they thought if they climbed the highest mountain they could see all of the earth. Obviously not possible with a spherical world.

EDIT - Forgot to add that Pro 8:27 isn't talking about an earth ocean.

*

Like anyone ever climbed the highest mountain in Israel and saw Rome, but they knew it was there. So your argument doesn't hold water.

Once again the heavens stretched out like a tent is a point of view.

 

[Alan McDougall]

So what do you say, fact or fiction?

The idea that the earth is flat is too stupid to even categorize it as fiction, it is the stuff of madmen.