Flavius Josephus About Jesus?

[dogsgod]

If we write off the myths and legends surrounding Jesus, he disappears. The same cannot be said of Augustus Caesar. The comparisons are fallacious.

 

[dogsgod]

Oberon, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel by trying to equate the deification of an actual person, Augustus, to the deity that is God and his Son. I hope you aren't paying too much for your "education."

 

[logician]

If we write off the myths and legends surrounding Jesus, he disappears. The same cannot be said of Augustus Caesar. The comparisons are fallacious.

At least Augustus Caesar had a real first and last name, the same cannot be said for the mythical Jesus, i.e. no "real" man with "real" name like Jesus Smith or Jesus Jones can be pointed to and proclaimed to be the "real" Jesus.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

At least Augustus Caesar had a real first and last name, the same cannot be said for the mythical Jesus, i.e. no "real" man with "real" name like Jesus Smith or Jesus Jones can be pointed to and proclaimed to be the "real" Jesus.

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

bwhahahahahahaha!!!!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

At least Augustus Caesar had a real first and last name, the same cannot be said for the mythical Jesus, i.e. no "real" man with "real" name like Jesus Smith or Jesus Jones can be pointed to and proclaimed to be the "real" Jesus.

Hilarious!!!!!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

At least Augustus Caesar had a real first and last name, the same cannot be said for the mythical Jesus, i.e. no "real" man with "real" name like Jesus Smith or Jesus Jones can be pointed to and proclaimed to be the "real" Jesus.

Actually, "Augustus Caesar" has four names - Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_naming_conventions

By the Republican era and throughout the Imperial era, a name in ancient Rome for a male citizen consisted of three parts (tria nomina): praenomen (given name), nomen (or nomen gentile or simply gentilicium, being the name of the gens or clan) and cognomen (name of a family line within the gens). Sometimes a second or third cognomen, called agnomen, was added. The nomen, and later, cognomen were virtually always hereditary. This system was derived from the Etruscan civilization.

Jesus was a Jew, and was Jesus son of Joseph or Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So much for the "two name" theory.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[logician]

Actually, "Augustus Caesar" has four names - Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus

Roman naming conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jesus was a Jew, and was Jesus son of Joseph or Jesus of Nazareth.

There was no Nazareth during the time of the supposed Jesus.

YOu have no proof whatsoever of your ramblings.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There was no Nazareth during the time of the supposed Jesus.

YOu have no proof whatsoever of your ramblings.

:biglaugh:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

There was no Nazareth during the time of the supposed Jesus.

YOu have no proof whatsoever of your ramblings.

You are correct.....No Nazareth...

As far as last names...it wasn't the Jewish practice, Arab practice to give a last name. They seem to bear the recognition of the father.

Yeshua bar Yosef

Osama ben Laddin

etc...etc...

 

[dogsgod]

Actually, "Augustus Caesar" has four names - Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus

Roman naming conventions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jesus was a Jew, and was Jesus son of Joseph or Jesus of Nazareth.

Some of Q is Jewish, but a good portion of the sayings are of a Greek cynic sage type of teaching that were originally written in Greek. Some of Q is secular in that they are religiously neutral. The mythology is Jewish, however it is a Hellenistic interpretation of messianic Hebrew written in the diaspora, in Greek, and of the fringe. The actual existence of Jesus is debatable.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The actual existence of Jesus is debatable.

Not on the grounds that he didn't have a proper name.

 

[dogsgod]

Not on the grounds that he didn't have a proper name.

True, however Jesus "of Nazareth" is a cause for discussion.

 

[Joe Bloe]

Joe-

It has been shown that originally Mark's gospel ended at verse 8.
There are No corresponding reference verses as with the rest of the Scriptures.
The style of writing changes after verse 8.
Jerome, Eusebius, Sinaitic Manuscript, Vatican 1209, Sinaitic Syriac Codex omit after 8.

The ones that have committed the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12:32;Hebrews 6:4-6) have the punishment of everlasting destruction (2 Thess. 1:9). The rest of the dead according to Romans (6:7) are freed or acquitted from their sins. That does not mean innocent but as a governor can pardon a person that would mean that the charges no longer stick. Acts (24:15) says there will be a resurrection of both the just and unjust.
After they are resurrected they will still have the free will to choose to obey God's righteous ways.

As for the ones living, the ones alive, at the time Jesus takes action, those sheep-like ones of Matthew chapter 25 will be rewarded with continued life or keep on living into Jesus thousand-year reign over earth. Whereas the goat-like ones will be destroyed with everlasting destruction as 2nd Thess (1:9) says.

Yes, I know all that stuff. That's why I consider the bible a load of rubbish. Bits and pieces cobbled together over centuries by confidence tricksters telling the people what they want to hear.

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In this thread we have had people say that if Jesus didn't exist, then Julius Caesar didn't exist either...where's the logic in that?

And when I mentioned the unbelievability of the miracles performed by Jesus, people here said they weren't real miracles (although I know a couple of Christians who would disagree).

My original point. Jesus is a myth. It doesn't matter if Josephus wrote about him as a real person or not. Jesus is still a myth.
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[URAVIP2ME]

We do know Nero blamed the Christians for the fire in Rome.

Tacitus wrote: Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite torture on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus (Christ) from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate.

Does that also make Tiberius and Pontius Pilate myth?


2nd Timothy (4:3) does say the time would come when people would have religious teachers for themselves in order to have their ' ears tickled '.

This should come as no surprise because as Acts (20:29,30) informs after the apostles would be gone oppressive wolf-like people would enter in among the congregation.
(Wheat and Weed-like ones would grow together until the harvest separation.
(Matthew 13:38-43; 25:32) The 24th chapter of Matthew is set for our day or time period and in verse 24 it also mentions that during our time there would be many false teachers to ' tickle ears ' so to speak.

 

[Quagmire]

The 24th chapter of Matthew is set for our day or time period.....

This is a matter of faith, not fact. And considering that there have been Christians in every generation who thought that this chapter was about their time, even as a matter of faith it's pretty weak.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

We do know Nero blamed the Christians for the fire in Rome.

We're not arguing the existence of the cult itself. That goes without question.

Tacitus wrote: Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite torture on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus (Christ) from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate.

Yes...that's what he heard....from whomever...Remember, he was "born" 20 to 25 years after the supposed death of Yeshua and then another 84 years later is when he wrote that....

Does that also make Tiberius and Pontius Pilate myth?

Nope...but it certainly doesn't make Yeshua "real"....

 

[logician]

Not on the grounds that he didn't have a proper name.

Plese give me a break, there IS no Jesus son of Jospesh mentioned anywhere historically, you are grasping for straws. Aso prove that Joseph existed historically, or Mary for that matter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is a matter of faith, not fact. And considering that there have been Christians in every generation who thought that this chapter was about their time, even as a matter of faith it's pretty weak.

Even though there have been professed Christians in times past thinking they were part of the 'generation' that does Not make what Jesus said as wrong in Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13.

The generation would have to tie in with Luke (21:24) and the 'seven times' of Daniel's prophecy.

Before the last century people did not have the means to travel 'to and fro' through the pages of Scripture. Daniel (12:4) informs that Bible knowledge or education would be increased. We can rove freely through the Scriptures by subject or topic arrangement by comparing corresponding or parallel verses and passages along the same line of thought to see what the writers are conveying to us.

What is 'weak' about the world's religious situation today? Never before in history has there been such a strong dangerous religious climate brewing in the world in the form of religious terrorism to the point that the United Nations knows this and with backing the United Nations can be strengthened to turn on the religious world.
Even a weak economy could create a strong desire in the political world for the wealth the world's composite religious 'queen' (Rev 18:7) has amassed. Someone already suggested to sell the Vatican.

Connecting Matt 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 with the attitudes and actions of people described at 2nd Timothy (3:1-5,13) along with Daniel and Revelation we can see the 'season' of Matthew (24:32,33) is at hand.

 

[dogsgod]

Nero blamed Chrestians for the fire, a small group led by Chrestus, not to be confused with Christians.