Florida Now Banning Dictionaries & Encyclopedias

[Heyo]

To be clear (not having read any other posts in this thread), you are saying theists are scared of knowledge?

I challenge you to a duel (debate, as I am a pacifist) on this point!

At least some theists are scared of knowledge, and even more so of the methods to acquire knowledge.
Shall I quote Martin Luther?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

To be clear (not having read any other posts in this thread), you are saying theists are scared of knowledge?

I challenge you to a duel (debate, as I am a pacifist) on this point!

Shall we begin with the Catholic Church's response to Gutenberg's great invention of the printing press -- the Index Librorum Prohibitorum -- and the 3,000+ authors and 5,000+ books, including Gustave Flaubert (Madame Bovary), historian Edward Gibbon (The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire), political intriguer and legendary lothario Casanova (his memoirs), and revolutionary astronomer Galileo (Dialogue on the Great World Systems)?

Or perhaps the proscriptions against having a Bible in your own language, so you cloud read it for yourself rather than have the Church tell you what it thought you needed to know from it?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Not all they teach is unbiased or for the well being of the child. I bet you don't think any teachers are bad or have an agenda counter to the parents.

There will always be bad teachers. But I think that (and I have seen this in my own school) some of the stuff people say is "biased" like teaching kids about different sexualities and gender expressions is not actually biased. It is a reality that students are going to have to deal with and have the language to manage.

For instance, I have taught students about what it means to be transgender and how to manage pronouns. This led to some coworkers complaining to my administrator about "teaching kids how to be transgender." My administrator supported me, thankfully, because there are transgender students in our program and it is necessary students understand modern social culture.

That some parents want to prevent kids from hearing about this in school is absolutely ridiculous. For one, it's a reality they are going to face. For another, they are exposed to it anyway through social media and their own peers who may also be transgender.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Shall we begin with the Catholic Church's response to Gutenberg's great invention of the printing press -- the Index Librorum Prohibitorum -- and the 3,000+ authors and 5,000+ books, including Gustave Flaubert (Madame Bovary), historian Edward Gibbon (The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire), political intriguer and legendary lothario Casanova (his memoirs), and revolutionary astronomer Galileo (Dialogue on the Great World Systems)?

Or perhaps the proscriptions against having a Bible in your own language, so you cloud read it for yourself rather than have the Church tell you what it thought you needed to know from it?

Yes, of course there are examples. I was (half) joking with you. I came to my faith, initially, through science and reason. But there have always been and will be reactionaries. Tune into any televangelist, for example IMHO

 

[Revoltingest]

There will always be bad teachers. But I think that (and I have seen this in my own school) some of the stuff people say is "biased" like teaching kids about different sexualities and gender expressions is not actually biased. It is a reality that students are going to have to deal with and have the language to manage.

For instance, I have taught students about what it means to be transgender and how to manage pronouns. This led to some coworkers complaining to my administrator about "teaching kids how to be transgender." My administrator supported me, thankfully, because there are transgender students in our program and it is necessary students understand modern social culture.

That some parents want to prevent kids from hearing about this in school is absolutely ridiculous. For one, it's a reality they are going to face. For another, they are exposed to it anyway through social media and their own peers who may also be transgender.

If a problem is ignored / denied,
then there is no problem. Right?

I've known some interesting people.
Some belonged to Unity Church.
Many of them believe that if you address
a problem, this causes the universe to
create the problem.
Example...
A Unity Church minster (my tenant) was
criticized for putting blinds on his office
windows. He didn't want people to see
his computer, lest it be stolen. Parishioners
told him that his thoughts of theft will
cause theft to happen.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

There will always be bad teachers. But I think that (and I have seen this in my own school) some of the stuff people say is "biased" like teaching kids about different sexualities and gender expressions is not actually biased. It is a reality that students are going to have to deal with and have the language to manage.

For instance, I have taught students about what it means to be transgender and how to manage pronouns. This led to some coworkers complaining to my administrator about "teaching kids how to be transgender." My administrator supported me, thankfully, because there are transgender students in our program and it is necessary students understand modern social culture.

That some parents want to prevent kids from hearing about this in school is absolutely ridiculous. For one, it's a reality they are going to face. For another, they are exposed to it anyway through social media and their own peers who may also be transgender.

That is their right, you don't get to teach another parents kids things they object to no matter how much you think what you are teaching is right.

One of my kids is homeschooled. We teach him about pronouns, sexuality, LGBTQ+ issues etc. But we don't teach him that people can choose their gender and men can have babies etc. We teach him to respect all people but what we believe to be true needs to be based in facts, good evidence and reality.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That is their right, you don't get to teach another parents kids things they object to no matter how much you think what you are teaching is right.

I do if they are in a public school and the material is age-appropriate, delivered with as little bias as possible, and as factual as possible within the context of the subject. If a parent has an objection, they can speak to me and administration and have their kid excused if administration deems it appropriate. Otherwise, I have every right as a professional to teach controversial subjects within the above boundaries.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I do if they are in a public school and the material is age-appropriate, delivered with as little bias as possible, and as factual as possible within the context of the subject. If a parent has an objection, they can speak to me and administration and have their kid excused if administration deems it appropriate. Otherwise, I have every right as a professional to teach controversial subjects within the above boundaries.

As long as the school board allows it. The thing is "factual" is an interpretation when it comes to trans issues, right? Anyway, this is only one of many reasons that my child is homeschooled, the school system over the last 5 years has gone from education to indoctrination of social issues.

 

[SkepticThinker]

As long as the school board allows it. The thing is "factual" is an interpretation when it comes to trans issues, right? Anyway, this is only one of many reasons that my child is homeschooled, the school system over the last 5 years has gone from education to indoctrination of social issues.

What indoctrination? Of what?

 

[Father Heathen]

What indoctrination? Of what?

To accept who they are and to be proud of it, rather than feel ashamed for superstitious reasons.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

What indoctrination? Of what?

This is what I object to of my once great school district since 2020. Teaching gender ideology, lying to parents, intentionally not keeping parents informed of student issues, teaching marxist ideology, teaching false American history, teaching white people are bad, promoting progressive ideology and demonizing conservative ideology, giving kids anxiety over climate change, promoting activism of their taught ideology over education, promotion of teachers and administrators based on race and gender not qualifications, placing too much responsibility on teachers, employee benefits are too expensive, school board is too political and have lost their way in education children, few academic opportunities for boys, they do not challenge kids who are excelling.

This is what I have seen in my school district where I graduated two kids that got a good education. This is why we left.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

To accept who they are and to be proud of it, rather than feel ashamed for superstitious reasons.

This is not what I am talking about.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This is what I object to of my once great school district since 2020. Teaching gender ideology, ...

You mean, teaching kids that there are people who identify as different genders? Why is that considered indoctrination? It's just a fact of life.

lying to parents, intentionally not keeping parents informed of student issues ...

You mean, not outing kids to their parents, if they aren't comfortable with it? How is that indoctrination?

, teaching marxist ideology,

Sorry but this just makes me laugh. Such as?

teaching false American history,

Such as?

teaching white people are bad,

Another one that makes me laugh. Such as?

promoting progressive ideology

Such as? Also, what's wrong with being progressive, exactly?

and demonizing conservative ideology,

Like, trans people are full of **** or ... ?? Like, what are we talking about here?

giving kids anxiety over climate change,

You mean, informing kids about the world around them and teaching them to be responsible for their actions and impacts on that world around them? We learned about climate change when I was a kid, like 35 years ago. It's called education.

promoting activism of their taught ideology over education,

Such as? What "taught ideology?"

promotion of teachers and administrators based on race and gender not qualifications,

They're indoctrinating kids with this??

placing too much responsibility on teachers,

Which has what to do with indoctrination of kids?

employee benefits are too expensive

Which has what to do with indoctrinating kids?

Also, disagree. I know a ton of teachers.

, school board is too political and have lost their way in education children,

You mean the school boards made up of angry parents trying to get books banned because they can't be bothered to be responsible parents?

few academic opportunities for boys,

What? And what does this have to do with indoctrinating kids?

they do not challenge kids who are excelling.

They challenge my niece. They challenged me 35 years ago. What do you mean and what does this have to do with indoctrination?

This is what I have seen in my school district where I graduated two kids that got a good education. This is why we left.

Sorry but this sounds like a lot of culture wars type hysteria we get from Fox News.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

You mean, teaching kids that there are people who identify as different genders? Why is that considered indoctrination? It's just a fact of life.

No, it is not. You cannot pick your gender.

You mean, not outing kids to their parents, if they aren't comfortable with it? How is that indoctrination?

It is not, I said in my post these are the reasons why I took my kid out of school, not that it was all indoctrination.

Like, trans people are full of **** or ... ?? Like, what are we talking about here?

I never said that. They promote progressive ideology over any other.

You mean, informing kids about the world around them and teaching them to be responsible for their actions and impacts on that world around them? We learned about climate change when I was a kid, like 35 years ago. It's called education.

No, I believe climate change is happening. I teach my kids about it. But the schools teach that the kids are the ones to solve it and that they are contributing to it causing anxiety. You can teach about climate change without causing anxiety.

You mean the school boards made up of angry parents trying to get books banned because they can't be bothered to be responsible parents?

How is this a reasonable response to my post? My point was the school board is a fight about political ideology (left and right) and not about how to actually teach our kids.

Sorry but this sounds like a lot of culture wars type hysteria we get from Fox News.

I lived it. My wife was a sub in the school my son was in in 5th grade. We took him out because of these issues. He is doing great learning science, math, writing, art, grammar etc. without the ideological BS. We are teaching him how to think not what to think, the schools do the latter. My older daughter who is 22 is an example. We do not agree on much politically or on social issues but she has thought out arguments and willing to hear other viewpoints. The schools no longer value these things, at least the school district I am in.

 

[Heyo]

No, I believe climate change is happening. I teach my kids about it. But the schools teach that the kids are the ones to solve it and that they are contributing to it causing anxiety. You can teach about climate change without causing anxiety.

Unfortunately, fear is still seen as a useful tool (mostly by the right, but the left isn't free of that misconception). Remember the propaganda causing fear of communism? The "satanic panic"? The Christian concept of hell? The current culture war scares, including the idea that kids get "indoctrinated" at school?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Unfortunately, fear is still seen as a useful tool (mostly by the right, but the left isn't free of that misconception). Remember the propaganda causing fear of communism? The "satanic panic"? The Christian concept of hell? The current culture war scares, including the idea that kids get "indoctrinated" at school?

ok

 

[JIMMY12345]

https://www.axios.com/2024/01/11/florida-book-ban-schools-lawsuit

Excerpted...
A Florida school district is pulling nearly 2,000 books from its shelves — including some dictionaries and encyclopedias — to make sure they abide by a new state law.

Why it matters: The state law, which prohibits schools from carrying books that describe sexual content, comes as Florida continues to get pushback over its titles banned in prisons and classrooms.

Disgraceful.Dictionaries whatever next?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, it is not. You cannot pick your gender.

This was in response to, "You mean, teaching kids that there are people who identify as different genders? Why is that considered indoctrination? It's just a fact of life."

There are, in fact, people who suffer from gender dysphoria. That is a fact of life. Sorry.

It is not, I said in my post these are the reasons why I took my kid out of school, not that it was all indoctrination.

Okay.

I never said that. They promote progressive ideology over any other.

Over ... what?

No, I believe climate change is happening. I teach my kids about it. But the schools teach that the kids are the ones to solve it and that they are contributing to it causing anxiety. You can teach about climate change without causing anxiety.

Who else is going to solve it but the people who will be adults in the near future?

How is this a reasonable response to my post? My point was the school board is a fight about political ideology (left and right) and not about how to actually teach our kids.

In response to, ", school board is too political and have lost their way in education children," ...

I said, "You mean the school boards made up of angry parents trying to get books banned because they can't be bothered to be responsible parents?

So .... yes?

I lived it. My wife was a sub in the school my son was in in 5th grade. We took him out because of these issues. He is doing great learning science, math, writing, art, grammar etc. without the ideological BS. We are teaching him how to think not what to think, the schools do the latter. My older daughter who is 22 is an example. We do not agree on much politically or on social issues but she has thought out arguments and willing to hear other viewpoints. The schools no longer value these things, at least the school district I am in.

You've yet to really show how these are considered "issues" in the first place, let alone "indoctrination."

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

This was in response to, "You mean, teaching kids that there are people who identify as different genders? Why is that considered indoctrination? It's just a fact of life."

There are, in fact, people who suffer from gender dysphoria. That is a fact of life. Sorry.

Never said that was not a thing. But that does not make them a different gender.

Who else is going to solve it but the people who will be adults in the near future?

I agree, but they make them feel like the the world will end if they don't solve it. A lot to put on a 5th grader. They can teach it but they also need to teach how to cope with the consequences, which was not being done in my district. "eco anxiety" is a thing.

In response to, ", school board is too political and have lost their way in education children," ...

I said, "You mean the school boards made up of angry parents trying to get books banned because they can't be bothered to be responsible parents?

So .... yes?

That is not what I mean.

You've yet to really show how these are considered "issues" in the first place, let alone "indoctrination."

I already said many times now all my reasons for pulling my kids out of school has nothing to do with indoctrination. But other reasons.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Never said that was not a thing. But that does not make them a different gender.

I agree, but they make them feel like the the world will end if they don't solve it. A lot to put on a 5th grader. They can teach it but they also need to teach how to cope with the consequences, which was not being done in my district. "eco anxiety" is a thing.

That is not what I mean.

I already said many times now all my reasons for pulling my kids out of school has nothing to do with indoctrination. But other reasons.

My question posed to you, that began our discussion together was, "What indoctrination? Of what?"

And these are the responses you gave me.
Now you say, when asked, that they have nothing to do with indoctrination.
Then why did you provide them as answers to my question about what indoctrination you are talking about?