Florida's "Don't Say Gay" Bill, what am I missing?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

An act relating to parental rights in education; amending s. 1001.42, F.S.; requiring district school boards to adopt procedures that comport with certain provisions of law for notifying a student's parent of specified information;

requiring such procedures to reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children in a specified manner;

prohibiting the procedures from prohibiting a parent from accessing certain records

prohibiting a school district from encouraging classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in primary grade levels or in a specified manner;

There is a lot more, but the gist of it is, teachers can basically out their students to their parents. This puts children and teenagers at risk, especially in families of fundamentalist evangelical Christians, who would disown, abuse, or neglect their children if they ever found out they were LGBTQ+.

Imagine what this will do to children and teens who are questioning their sexual orientation or gender identity. We are going to see a lot of reports regarding suicides, self-harm, and abuse/disownment of children.

This bill is dangerous. It is important to resist against bills like this, which are products of a bigoted era so focused on Christian dominionism (which, hate to be that person, but this bill is the result of Christian evangelical thought).

I honour you for your response. It gets right to the heart of the the matter.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I think they might want to add a provision for counseling between parents and students.
Better to have it out in the open. I can't imagine the pressure and guilt a child might feel keeping this a secret from their family.

Perhaps you cannot imagine it, but for the child who is coming to realize that their sexuality would run counter to everything that their parents and community could tolerate, that pressure is absolutely immense. Not only that, but it puts at risk relationships with everyone around them.

I know this. I have been there, as have other members of the Forum.

And the idea of trying to "add a provision for counselling" seems strange, especially when we're talking about a religious objection to where the child has found him/herself. When have you ever seen any argument (there've been about a trillion in this Forum alone) that changes a religion opinion? You can't "counsel" people out of that.

 

[VoidCat]

Perhaps you cannot imagine it, but for the child who is coming to realize that their sexuality would run counter to everything that their parents and community could tolerate, that pressure is absolutely immense. Not only that, but it puts at risk relationships with everyone around them.

I know this. I have been there, as have other members of the Forum.

And the idea of trying to "add a provision for counselling" seems strange, especially when we're talking about a religious objection to where the child has found him/herself. When have you ever seen any argument (there've been about a trillion in this Forum alone) that changes a religion opinion? You can't "counsel" people out of that.

I'll also add if the kids parents are told...the parents could tell the teachers not to refer them as who they are. Then the kid will have practically no safe place to be themselves. Not even school

 

[Wildswanderer]

I've attached the actual bill to this post. The language is hard to parse no doubt. That seems standard for this sort of document.

What I'm wondering is why this bill is causing so much outrage? (As an aside, I'm expecting to be mis-categorized all sorts of ways as this thread moves forward )

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/Filed/PDF

I don't see the problem either.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Well, for one thing, right from the first page -- it requires a school counsellor who a child might have sought out believing that he or she could comfortably and safely divulge information about their growing understanding of their own sexuality ("I'm a boy, but I only like boys," or "I'm a girl, and I like girls as well as boys") -- to then report that information back to the parents. The parents who the child, having, let us presume, some understanding of their parents' stances on such things, chose not to divulge to them.

In other words, take something uttered in confidence in the hope of guidance, and basically OUT the kid. And since I myself have known families that disowned their own children for such things, pretty dangerous, too.

Nice.

Counselors are to be confided in. This is messed up.

 

[Wildswanderer]

@Nakosis
If it were a better world I'd agree with the kid coming out. But...its a dangerous world to be trans. And sadly parents are the first to cause harm. Even with counseling being a requirement it's just not safe for many kids.

No five year old can decide his or her gender. It's ridiculous to think so. Fantasy land.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Counselors are to be confided in. This is messed up.

No other person has rights over your child that you don't have.

 

[VoidCat]

No five year old can decide his or her gender. It's ridiculous to think so. Fantasy land.

Im not gonna bother trying to change your mind. Imma focus on talking to folk who are actually open to understanding folks who are different from them. Don't even bother quoting me on anything

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Counselors are to be confided in. This is messed up.

Like the sanctity of the confessional -- the priest doesn't tell, and neither does the counsellor!

Picture Florida trying to pass a law making it mandatory for a Catholic priest to divulge anything at all "iffy" they were told by a penitent during confession. Think it would pass?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Im not gonna bother trying to change your mind. Imma focus on talking to folk who are actually open to understanding folks who are different from them. Don't even bother quoting me on anything

People being different isn't the issue. Encouraging children to be something they aren't is abuse.. that's the issue.

 

[stvdv]

I've attached the actual bill to this post. The language is hard to parse no doubt. That seems standard for this sort of document.

What I'm wondering is why this bill is causing so much outrage? (As an aside, I'm expecting to be mis-categorized all sorts of ways as this thread moves forward )

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/Filed/PDF

The elite (worldwide group planning how we should be governed) decided to push us into an era of the "New Normal" (for which covid-19 and wars are used to create fear, so that people can be easily force-fed and propaganda manipulated in their chosen direction...all iname of "build better")

Clearly the New Normal is all about humans following rules AND about creating a humanity that does not think too much for themselves and just comply

We all want this "New Normal", don't we? That's at least the impression I get on RF, all are eager to follow covid rules to a T, w/o questioning it's hidden agenda

This Bill fits perfectly in this plan of the elite

 

[Wildswanderer]

Like the sanctity of the confessional -- the priest doesn't tell, and neither does the counsellor!

Picture Florida trying to pass a law making it mandatory for a Catholic priest to divulge anything at all "iffy" they were told by a penitent during confession. Think it would pass?

We are talking about little children here. Not comparable. If a kid was suicidal for example the counselor darn sure better tell the parents.

 

[VoidCat]

People being different isn't the issue. Encouraging children to be something they aren't is abuse.. that's the issue.

I wasnt just talking of this issue. Most of your posts if something doesnt fit a confirmation bias you dont listen to opposing views. So no I dont see a reason to engage. Im not insulting you here after all nothing wrong with being deeply rooted in confirmation bias most folk are. It's something i fall prey to now and again but work to push aside. I just don't see the point in debating you.

 

[Sand Dancer]

No other person has rights over your child that you don't have.

If a person wants counseling to be confidential, that has to be abided by. You can lose your license for things like that. Sometimes the parents do not have the best interests of their child in mind and can be detrimental in some cases.

 

[Sand Dancer]

People being different isn't the issue. Encouraging children to be something they aren't is abuse.. that's the issue.

No one is in favor of doing that, but a LGBT child needs someone to talk to that will not condescend, punish or shame them.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If a person wants counseling to be confidential, that has to be abided by. You can lose your license for things like that. Sometimes the parents do not have the best interests of their child in mind and can be detrimental in some cases.

If they are over 18, sure.
A child doesn't have the right to bypass the parents rights. And why would you assume someone at the school automatically has the child's best interest in mind?

 

[Wildswanderer]

No one is in favor of doing that, but a LGBT child needs someone to talk to that will not condescend, punish or shame them.

There's no such thing as a LGBT child.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We are talking about little children here. Not comparable. If a kid was suicidal for example the counselor darn sure better tell the parents.

We are talking about school children -- and some of those (you might try remembering back to your own school years) would strongly object to being called "little children."

Teens in high school are almost all sexually aware people with a certain amount of social sophistication.

And as for a kid being suicidal, is that really what your first response would be -- "tell the parents?" What if the parents are the reason? Hmmm? (I ask as a person who was a battered child, and almost killed -- TWICE -- by those people supposed to protect me most.)

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There's no such thing as a LGBT child.

As someone who was an LGBT child, I am going to say it plainly -- that is a totally ignorant statement.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There's no such thing as a LGBT child.

As someone who was an LGBT child, I am going to say it plainly -- that is a totally ignorant statement.

I'm going to go further, in hope that you can engage something like understanding of what it's like to be different. Not to "want to be different," but just to be.

Those people who you just said do not exist are some of the most vulnerable people anywhere, those most likely to be considering suicide, those trying to find their way to navigate in a world full of people like you who either hate them or don't think they're even real people.

You might really try to take another look at yourself and your views about other people -- in light of the person you claim to follow when you label yourself "Christian," and who said "Judge not." And who also advocated something called "LOVE," which you might look into as well.