Folks from Other Religions

[pearl]

But God himself has no obligation to act only within the confines of the visible Church.

Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour (cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)” (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue – Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, Instruction Dialogue and Proclamation, 19 May 1991, n. 29; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 1 July 1991, p. III).

Source: Pope John Paul II, General Audience, Wednesday 9 September 1998

Karl Rahner once referred to those 'as anonymous Christians', because he could not admit there was salvation outside of Christ.

 

[Neuropteron]

"You're drawing conclusions based on assumptions. Why would you assume that Ramakrishna meant yearn for God at the exclusion of action."

Hi,

My only assumption was that you correctly quoted Ramakrishna
"It is enough to have sincere yearning for God"
I answered that contrary to this statement more is required because yearning by itself is not enough.

"Tell me, do you know what karma yoga is?"

Since you ask:
Karma yoga claims that it is the best way to develop a spiritual self, it is a type of yoga emphasizing actions and selfless acts to attain self realization and salvation.
However, It lets a person decide for himself what path to follow and which God to worship.
In this way it is following a course of direct opposition to the bible, that claims there is only one God, Jehovah, that all other Gods are false Gods and that the only means of salvation is by following his principles and accepting Christ mediator ship.

 

[Sundance]

Among Imperial Romans, religion was pretty much a matter of correct performance of ritual, not belief or conviction. In addition, it was inextricably tied to the well-being of the state, supporting the leadership. If the god or gods you worshipped or your religious practices didn’t stand in the way of the social welfare as a whole or wasn’t viewed as such, it was acceptable (with some exceptions, e.g. the cult of the Magna Mater, early Christianity, and the practice of magic and sorcery). Other than that, Romans were the religiously cosmopolitan sort. You could worship whichever god or gods, follow any Mystery cult, and/or adhere to the teachings of the philosophical school of your choice.


What this means for my perspective on other religions:

What does your religion teach about other religions?

It doesn’t inherently, but as a cosmopolitan sort (much like my religious fore-bearers), other religions are perfectly fine to me. Through my own investigation into other religions, I’ve found that they, each and all, have different things to teach which are of value. Though I don’t possess any extensive knowledge about it — and despite the theistic differences between this religion and my own (Traditional Stoicism) — I, personally, am awed by Judaism.


What does it teach about what will happen to folks from those other religions in the afterlife?

Traditional Stoics don’t really focus on an afterlife, but I’m undecided between a general spirit world/underworld and some sort of judgment in the afterlife.

What does it teach about folks from other religions living among you if yours is the dominant religion?

Again, nothing in particular, but I view human nature as possessing a daimon, a genius (that is, a Divine Spirit within). Just as the gods are benevolent and morally upright, so, too, were we created by God to live as morally virtuous beings. Because of this, I refuse to mistreat those whose religious manners differ from my own.

 

[Glaurung]

Well, Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism finds that God and humans, animals, vegetation or non-living substances, all are not different in reality.

I mentioned Dvaita over Advaita because I deny monism. God and the creature are completely distinct. God indwells in and pervades the universe, sure... But the universe is not God nor is it an illusion.

This is the greatest flaw I see with Christianity. Rigid and inflexible beliefs and refusal to entertain other claims ultimately leads to stagnation of spiritual growth.

I understand that the Gospel's claim to exclusive truth is not a welcome claim for many. But the very act of belief is also an act of rejection. Some Hindus may pretend otherwise but no one actually believes all claims are equally valid. Heck, look at your own words! You describe Christianity as 'rigid', 'inflexible' and that it 'leads to spiritual stagnation'. Not once in this discussion have I disparaged your religion. And yet, you felt the need to disparage mine while implicitly claiming to be the open minded one.

 

[Jimmy]

What does your religion teach about other religions?

What does it teach about what will happen to folks from those other religions in the afterlife?

What does it teach about folks from other religions living among you if yours is the dominant religion?

Raised a Christian.
Don’t really subscribe.
Teaches saved through christ.
But I’m not an idiot.
all that means is you get the benefits of knowing Christ but you could perfectly live without him.
We are all saved.

a baby who unfortunately dies who never got to “know” Jesus isn’t saved?
Yeah right

Or you could interpret the phrase saved through Christ as just recognizing when. you do something wrong and trying to do better

It’s not that deep really

 

[Aupmanyav]

The bottom line is, why should I believe Ramakrishna.
"every religion has errors"

Ramakrishna is wrong in assuming that yearning is the most important thing.
What is important is yearning for the right things AND acting upon it.

Yeah, why should you believe Ramakrishna? I see no reason. I too do not believe in Ramakrishna and I am a staunch Hindu, though a strong atheist as well.
I do not think that there is no religion without errors. Advaita is without errors. Actually I am going to throw a challenge in General Religious Debates forum for members to find faults in Advaita.
I suppose Ramakrishna was talking about yearning for the mercy and grace of his deity (Mother Goddess Durga). It may not be so for other Hindus.

But who told you that Ramakrishna or any other person in Hinduism is the whole of Hinduism? Why pick on Ramakrishna? There have been thousands of religious luminaries like Ramakrishna in Hinduism whose views were different.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's possible in Judaism. No Jesus needed.

Possible in Hinduism too. No Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Mohammad, Bahaollah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad needed.
Not even Vishnu, Shiva, Durga, Kali, Lakshmi, Parvati, Saraswati, Ganesha, Murugan / Kartikeya, Hanuman, Indra, Agni, Soma, Mitra, Varuna, Nasatya, Dyavah, etc.
Actually eternal life is the default in Advaita Hinduism.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Hi,

My only assumption was that you correctly quoted Ramakrishna

I quoted Ramakrishna because I was responding to the OP as to what my religion teaches. I wasn't offering what he said up for debate.

"It is enough to have sincere yearning for God"
I answered that contrary to this statement more is required because yearning by itself is not enough.

I think you're missing the point. I don't think "do nothing else" was implied in that statement. Your argument is based on that premise. So that was your second assumption.

"Tell me, do you know what karma yoga is?"

Since you ask:
Karma yoga claims that it is the best way to develop a spiritual self, it is a type of yoga emphasizing actions and selfless acts to attain self realization and salvation.
However, It lets a person decide for himself what path to follow and which God to worship.
In this way it is following a course of direct opposition to the bible, that claims there is only one God, Jehovah, that all other Gods are false Gods and that the only means of salvation is by following his principles and accepting Christ mediator ship.

I'm not here to teach you what karma yoga is or argue its validity. But I will say that your understanding of it based on what you wrote above is rudimentary at best. I find it's best not to dismiss things one doesn't fully understand.

What your Bible claims is inconsequential to me, and likely to anyone else that is non-Abrahamic.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I understand that the Gospel's claim to exclusive truth is not a welcome claim for many. But the very act of belief is also an act of rejection. Some Hindus may pretend otherwise but no one actually believes all claims are equally valid. Heck, look at your own words! You describe Christianity as 'rigid', 'inflexible' and that it 'leads to spiritual stagnation'. Not once in this discussion have I disparaged your religion. And yet, you felt the need to disparage mine while implicitly claiming to be the open minded one.

You're right. I can see how what I wrote may be construed as disparaging Christianity. I clearly wasn't being impeccable with my words, and I apologize to you, @Saint Frankenstein, and anyone else that took exception to what I said.

When I said "the biggest problem I have with Christianity," I was thinking about the time in my life that I separated from it and the reasons for doing so...the problems I had with it personally. It wasn't my intention to speak ill of it, and I didn't mean Christianity leads to stagnation, but that being rigid or inflexible to new discoveries does. Christianity is, indeed, a path of spiritual development, and even though I see errors in it, it has its virtues as well.

So again, I apologize to anyone that took exception to what I said.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Actually eternal life is the default in Advaita Hinduism.

I probably would have used the words "eternal being," because I really can't have a "life" without being embodied, but I gave your post a like anyway because I knew what you meant.

 

[sayak83]

What does your religion teach about other religions?

What does it teach about what will happen to folks from those other religions in the afterlife?

What does it teach about folks from other religions living among you if yours is the dominant religion?

Hinduism (and Buddhism) says that attachment to ego is the root cause of suffering in all places, times and beings. Whatever successful means is there to reduce this me me me-ness is a legitimate path. Nothing else really matters. Hinduism claims no monopoly regarding this.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I probably would have used the words "eternal being," because I really can't have a "life" without being embodied, but I gave your post a like anyway because I knew what you meant.

'Embodied' does not mean to come back only as humans. A part of me will be in a flower, another in a cockroach, yet another as a grain of sand in River Ganges. All that is embodiment.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Embodied does not mean to come back as humans.

I never suggested it did.

Which part of you will return as a cockroach?

 

[Marcion]

What does your religion teach about other religions?

What does it teach about what will happen to folks from those other religions in the afterlife?

What does it teach about folks from other religions living among you if yours is the dominant religion?

My spiritual path (not part of any religion) teaches that all people, in fact all sentient creatures, advance spiritually through clash and cohesion and through actions and reactions (creating and expressing or relinquishing samskara's).
When through intense spiritual practice the samkara's are fully exhausted, the individual merges into the Supreme (Brahma or Holy Spirit or Rule/"kingdom" of God).
Unless they choose to continue to serve the suffering humanity after getting liberation, then they can return in different ways.

There are superficial differences in how people progress (or regress) spiritually but essentially there is only one single path towards liberation. The differences between so-called religions are just differences in customs and the effectiveness of the practices. Really speaking everyone is on the same path towards blessedness and humanity is one and indivisable.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Which part of you will return as a cockroach?

Difficult to say, since my body has approximately 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (7 octillion) atoms (Google search 2013). Who knows, if or not, they will form part of a 100 cockroaches. Basically, after my death, I will become nearly omnipresent, with so many atoms on the loose in the environment.

 

[Neuropteron]

Yeah, why should you believe Ramakrishna? I see no reason. I too do not believe in Ramakrishna and I am a staunch Hindu, though a strong atheist as well.
I do not think that there is no religion without errors. Advaita is without errors. Actually I am going to throw a challenge in General Religious Debates forum for members to find faults in Advaita.
I suppose Ramakrishna was talking about yearning for the mercy and grace of his deity (Mother Goddess Durga). It may not be so for other Hindus.

But who told you that Ramakrishna or any other person in Hinduism is the whole of Hinduism? Why pick on Ramakrishna? There have been thousands of religious luminaries like Ramakrishna in Hinduism whose views were different.

Hi,
Why pick on Ramakrishna? There have been thousands of religious luminaries like Ramakrishna in Hinduism whose views were different.

I can only comment on the opinions of these "luminaries" as they are brought up.
He was the source of information postulated at the time.
I found the instruction given by Ramakrishna simplistic and lacking in substance.
It is up to us who we want to follow and listen to, but the bible warns that "if a blind follows a blind both will fall into a pit".
Personally, I am thankful when I am made aware reasons to analyze my views.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but the bible warns that "if a blind follows a blind both will fall into a pit".

If you want to be so careful of not following a false lead, then first check on the authenticity of Bible.
Bible - Wikipedia

 

[Neuropteron]

If you want to be so careful of not following a false lead, then first check on the authenticity of Bible.
Bible - Wikipedia

That is excellent advice, Thank you.

 

[pearl]

Catholic Church and Judaism

The Catholic Church

The Church listening to its own theologians and scholars.

“Throw open the windows of the Church and let the fresh air of the Spirit blow through”

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Church listening to its own theologians and scholars.

“Throw open the windows of the Church and let the fresh air of the Spirit blow through”

After how long?

After many drafts and sometimes bitter debates, the now historic declaration Nostra Aetate, (Latin for “In Our Time”) was adopted by the bishops in October 1965 by a vote of 2,221 to 88. The declaration, less than 1,600 words in length, specifically denounced anti-Semitism, urged “mutual respect and understanding” and the establishment of “biblical and theological studies” as well as “fraternal dialogues” between Catholics and Jews. [ source ]

Better late than never ...

... except for the victims far, far too numerous to count.
​

Your previous claim that, [in Catholicism] "it doesn't, that is a judgment entirely left to God alone" is painfully superficial and misleading, but thanks for coming around "after many drafts and sometimes bitter debate."