For atheists

[gnomon]

There are many strong signs about God's existance as there are many saints who constantly do miracles for those who pray for them, but that's a rare thing, although it happened a few times in our zone's surroundings last 50s years, like someone who was said he is in an advanced stage of his cancer , goes to the hospital and they tell him there's nothing they can do, it's too late, then he keeps praying all the time in his last days of 'supposed' life , asking for healings, then he dreamt a particular saint (St Charbel) visited him, put his hands in his body (where he had cancer) then disappears. He wakes up, and go to test himself, and cancer was suddenly disappeared. Doctors were really amazed, before he told them the story.(That's the 1 I know which happened like 2-3 years ago for a person not too far away from our home)

For every assumed miracle of cancer recovery there are children murdered in the most grisly fashion. Cherry picking an event that is entirely plausible, such as recovery from cancer, while ignoring other plausible events such as natural disasters to prove God is not a very effective argument.

Not to mention, that every now and then, some are becoming saints after doing miracles to a few which get announced publically. So, if that's not true, either we (Christians) are lying or we are crazy. It's impossible to be crazy, because these things are happening in front of some of witnesses eyes, that there seem to be a no way escape from their disease, but they get healed after some dream where they see they get healed, do the tests and nothing shows up. And it is also impossible to lie, because what would we earn by making such lies and staying christians?absolutely nothing. We would most probably stop wasting our times and stop being religious and do what we want and enjoy our lives the way We want, not the way God wants us. And these miracles very rarely happen, and to very few people, if they are Very faithful and pray a lot when they get no escape.

Sainthood is an entirely subjective concept AND it is very possible for people to lie. The fact that sainthood is not an aspect of Christianity (it only applies to certain branches) nor is it exclusive to Christians but as well bears a strong resemblance to those cultures who deify individuals (Guan Yu in China, for example) for a multitude of reasons. Why should I take the Catholic Church's canonization, even if they call it only a recognition of what "God" has already done, as anything different than the people of China who deified warrior and scholars in a completely different religion as proof of anything other than people elevate specific members of their group to a hero status?

It's proof of nothing about any so called gods.

Another proof is demon possession. And it's not the one you see in the movies, like 'the exorcist' because most of what you'd see there is untrue. You may say that there is no possession, but that the person is psycologically sick. I agree in LOTS of cases that that is true, maybe 90% or more of the times people say they are. But there are many case in which people are truely possessed. And I started believing in God, and praying, after i watched a demonic possession live on tv of an unbeliever (christian channel), and on a very trusted source, which made me to believe that there is evil, which means there is God. And demons dont possess many, so they dont reveal the truth that they exist, so they keep as many people as possible away from God.

There is not a single case presented yet that stands as proof of demonic possession. Different cultures cannot even agree on what amounts to a demonic, or evil, spirit. They cannot even prove the existence of spirit or objective evil.

The exorced never seemed psychologically ill, as at first he was totally natural, and in the second the priest came in and started praying, the possessed person started shaking like crazy throwing 100s and 100s of insults, threatening the priest all the time to leave him alone (the demon) and keep him in that person's body (they feel rest in bodies that's why they sometimes like possessing), but of course, the possessed tried to resist and everytime the priest was getting the cross near the eyes, the possessed will close his eyes, because if he looks at the cross, he'll get incredible suffering (the demon inside). and everytime the priest would get the bible in front of him, he'll start going crazy to move it away and keep spitting on it. And he seemed 90% fine before the priest came in. And then after much effort, the priest got the possessed person freed, and he Became TOTALLY normal, not knowing what happened. But as soon as he was told by his companions, he immediately converted to Christianity and became faithful ever since, because evil spirits cant do **** to anyone who loves Jesus&God and by praying and especially following the commandments, because he will be taken care of and there are 2 other cases I watched about demon possession from the same source.

Study hysteria, mass delusion, implanted memories, suggestion, etc.

And if you believe in history book and not religious books, you can look up a book of a historian called titus, who talked about jesus christ being a wise man doing miracles and that he had risen from death, many followed him etc., as he was alive when Jesus was there.

There is nothing in the works of Josephus, already debated as to authenticity in specific regards to Jesus, that can serve as proof of an avatar of a demi-urge on Earth.

Also, LOTS of UFOS are appearing in the sky, Especially in some places in USA. And that's true and it is the work of the devil, so if any never knew why these were appearing should know, he is trying to prove us that Aliens do truely exist for later plans (Wont go on with this or else I'd write 10s more paragraphs)

This just weird.

And also, here's an appearance, not very clear, but clear enough for anyone to see it and to know that it happened. On May 30th, 30 000s and more of Lebanese christians were praying right in that time for 20s hours to Virgin Mary in Lebanon in front of Harissa (a sacred place built for Virgin Mary), and she appeared in the sky from far away because Too many were praying for her there and here's the picture I took and IT isnt photoshoped! (so dont put that excuse)
s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/atallah_album/?action=view&current=255093_10150647019780241_658160240_18929836_4254976_n.jpg]255093_10150647019780241_658160240_18929836_4254976_n.jpg

And this shows that it seems like her exactly, and it aint a reflexion because she appeared differently a few times and here's a link showing more photos taken from those who were there with us:

youtube.com/watch?v=2o1s7hfl-xQ
Whether you want to believe me, or dont , that will always remain a true fact, because it happened, and I am pretty sure many here will deny it, because they dont WANT to believe, not that they cant believe, and if God doesnt appear to us, doesnt mean he doesnt exist. He wants US to find him through faith, and if he appears to us, we'll all follow him because he's the creator and because he'd benifit us, so he put us in a life where Evil and Good exist, in which we choose what we want to follow, the evil or the good, he gave us freedom of choice, to choose between Evil (satan) and Good (God), so we follow who we truely want to follow and who we would TRUELY LOVE , not to follow God for our own benefits because he controls everything and he is the all-powerful.

Furthermore, The devil is using this technology, to get us further from God, and it's working on MANY people, also making them to believe in science, and therefore we'll stop believing in God, which is exactly what the devil wants us to do as a start. And Evil spirits dont appear either to those who dont believe in Religion because we'll immediately run away to God and start believing in him, which they dont want. Many may have said that there is no evidence, but their purpose is to not show us any evidence, although if we truely seek either and pray for, they'd surely appear. (I never deny that Science aint true , it is very true, but it has no proof that God didnt create the planet and such, and yes it was created by the energy, but who brought it? Can any human know how big the universe is?

And those who say that the bible isnt real, dont look at the old testament, because it is very faar from wordy. It is Very symbolic. Take a look at the new Testament and I'm pretty sure you'll understand most things. Because Jesus came to talk to us not symbolically but wordly in most cases.

I'm saying all this not to argue or anything, but to show the truth. Follow your logic after this, and start believing in the one who created us , whom we turned our back from although he still loves us

I guess I'm gonna stop here , because if I keep posting every single sign and such, I'd probably not finish this week , but the one after. Hopefully I got some things clearer for you, and sorry if I have some spelling/grammar mistakes as English isnt my 1st language. And flamers , feel free to flame all you want, pretty sure that an arguement will be started now

All this just became even weirder except for the fact that people from other cultures with different religious/theological views make the same claims regarding their religious outlook.

 

[logician]

The Jewish version of Jesus was told 3000 years earlier in ancient Egypt. The story of the Sun god Horus paralleled Jesus in every respect. God impregnated a virgin with his son, the son of god, He was called a savior. He was crucified to save mankind. It just takes the Jews a while longer to come up with something. Now...as I'm sure you know, the Jews don't even believe it. They're strictly old testament.



A List of the similarities between Horus and Jesus:

• Horus and the Father are one.
• Jesus says, "I and My Father are one. He that seeth Me, seeth Him that sent Me."
  
• Horus is the Father seen in the Son.
• Jesus claims to be the Son in whom the Father is revealed.
  
• Horus was the light of the world, the light that is represented by the symbolical eye, the sign of salvation.
• Jesus is made to declare that He is the light of the world.
  
• Horus was the way, the truth, the life by name and in person.
• Jesus is made to assert that he is the way, the truth, and the life.
  
• Horus was the plant, the shoot, the natzar.
• Jesus is made to say: "I am the true vine."
  
• Horus says: It is I who traverse the heaven; I go round the Sekhet-Arru (the Elysian Fields); Eternity has been assigned to me without end. Lo! I am heir of endless time and my attribute is eternity.
• Jesus says: " I am come down from Heaven. For this is the will of the Father that everyone who beholdeth the Son and believeth in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." (He, too, claims to be lord of eternity.)
  
• Horus says: " I open the Tuat that I may drive away the darkness."
• Jesus says: " I am come a light unto the world."
  
• Horus says: I am equipped with thy words O Ra (the father in heaven) (ch.32) and repeat them to those who are deprived of breath. (ch.38). These were the words of the father in heaven.
• Jesus says: " The Father which sent me, he hath given me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. Whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."

There were many similarities betwen the sayings of the supposed Jesus, and earlier
"gods". It just goes to show that the Jesus story borrowed heavily from previous mythos.

 

[Draka]

Don't you just love when people like this come in and shoot straight for the atheists? Us non-Christian theists kind of get looked over like we don't even exist. Like there's only two sides to the equation. Christians and atheists. Hehe...the rest of us can just sit back and watch the show

 

[Orias]

Don't you just love when people like this come in and shoot straight for the atheists? Us non-Christian theists kind of get looked over like we don't even exist. Like there's only two sides to the equation. Christians and atheists. Hehe...the rest of us can just sit back and watch the show

It does get kind of tedious as well as tempestuous.

In the end I just shrug and sigh.

 

[GA777]

Photos can be doctored and people lie, sometimes for no reason at all. Doesn't prove anything. Some lie, but you can get evidence from the healed people , I am sure of that. Also, I was there and I took a picture I shown. And my PC cant support any program, and I never used any image editing program. And of course you'd say I am lying but what's the point for coming in here then? To have some fun or to start to argue? No. But to try to make maybe some believe that there is God, or at least to take this subject more seriously (religion) , because it is the worthiest of all for 1000s of different reasons. Because if there's God and you were wrong, things wouldnt look as good as if you were a christian for example.


Oh OK so which religion should I pick then if I can't go by reason and logic? Let me guess whichever one you believe in is the true religion, right?

Nope. Just deeply search and get a deeper knowledge about every religion and then I am pretty sure you'll choose the right one. Either evangelical or christian would be what you choose if you get expanded knowledge about these. I always used to search before about information on other religions etc., either through people, or books or the internet, and would have converted if anything was more important than either of these 2, but of course there is none, for many different reasons and facts.

 

[GA777]

Welcome, but You are out there bud.

you type on a computer science created and then denounce science in the next sentence.

I think you may be really confused.


when you are injured or sick or have a heart attack. science will save you. not a god figure.


So far you have not posted any proof at all towards a deity of any kind let alone the abrahamic god.

good luck

Science is created to get people further from God. I'm trying to use it to do the opposite, but of course it's affecting us. Since the recent technology occured, love and goodness disappeared between all people,people became lazy,worried about the future,selfish,away from god etc. etc. And believe me, there's a lot behind it, it's not a coincindence. Movies and songs are done for a purpose, to get this world more evil or to trick people especially kids. There's lots of things behind everything. You think people sometimes do the satanic sign for fun especially the famous ones, or that some songs containing clear evil materials are coincindence or done to entertain people? You know why so much crime happens in the US etc etc..? Through Religious research, you can know everything happening around you, why is it happening,and even what may happen soon. Not through the bible only tho.

Of course it can, although there are many things it cant cure, but the science is the devil's work. And the devil can also cure, and he's always desperate about doing that, and as many other things to get people believe that there is no God, who never(a few exceptions tho) sends an angel or something for a human to show him he exists. But if you ask the evil forces, they'll come right away, as they're desperate about owning more and more people and getting them deceived to get them in hell with them later on.

 

[GA777]

Why does it seem like God heals old people with cancer but is unable to fill the bellies of starving children? Why is cancer and blindness miraculously curable by magic yet not hunger? Interesting.

Because starving children wouldnt die,but sick people may. But of course if these children pray for him, he can help them by getting maybe people into their lives who can help them with food etc., but he can help them not get hungry but stay thin for example, just get much less hunger, if they pray for him from their hearts and ask him. And that's nowhere written in the bible because it is easy recovery comapred to sickness healing as a hungry person eating a lot wouldnt get hungry anymore eafter eating, but a sick person, having a very dangerous disease, no matter what he does, he could've never got healed.

 

[Orias]

Why does it seem like God heals old people with cancer but is unable to fill the bellies of starving children? Why is cancer and blindness miraculously curable by magic yet not hunger? Interesting.

Magic doesn't have to be defined by anything supernatural or "God" related.

But that is besides the point

Because starving children wouldnt die,but sick people may.

What about the sick people that die?

But of course if these children pray for him, he can help them by getting maybe people into their lives who can help them with food etc., but he can help them not get hungry but stay thin for example, just get much less hunger, if they pray for him from their hearts and ask him.

Yes they might get people to help them. What of those who die from starvation?

I think its more like, they need food so they go and get it.

And that's nowhere written in the bible because it is easy recovery comapred to sickness healing as a hungry person eating a lot wouldnt get hungry anymore eafter eating, but a sick person, having a very dangerous disease, no matter what he does, he could've never got healed.

Yes its not written in the bible so what does that say?

 

[GA777]

Don't you just love when people like this come in and shoot straight for the atheists? Us non-Christian theists kind of get looked over like we don't even exist. Like there's only two sides to the equation. Christians and atheists. Hehe...the rest of us can just sit back and watch the show

Just wondering what's your true view about the TRUE God's existence. Tho. I doubt you'd reply and if you would, by replying honestly

 

[GA777]

For every assumed miracle of cancer recovery there are children murdered in the most grisly fashion. Cherry picking an event that is entirely plausible, such as recovery from cancer, while ignoring other plausible events such as natural disasters to prove God is not a very effective argument.

Sainthood is an entirely subjective concept AND it is very possible for people to lie. The fact that sainthood is not an aspect of Christianity (it only applies to certain branches) nor is it exclusive to Christians but as well bears a strong resemblance to those cultures who deify individuals (Guan Yu in China, for example) for a multitude of reasons. Why should I take the Catholic Church's canonization, even if they call it only a recognition of what "God" has already done, as anything different than the people of China who deified warrior and scholars in a completely different religion as proof of anything other than people elevate specific members of their group to a hero status?

It's proof of nothing about any so called gods.

There is not a single case presented yet that stands as proof of demonic possession. Different cultures cannot even agree on what amounts to a demonic, or evil, spirit. They cannot even prove the existence of spirit or objective evil.

Study hysteria, mass delusion, implanted memories, suggestion, etc.

There is nothing in the works of Josephus, already debated as to authenticity in specific regards to Jesus, that can serve as proof of an avatar of a demi-urge on Earth.

This just weird.



All this just became even weirder except for the fact that people from other cultures with different religious/theological views make the same claims regarding their religious outlook.

1- The Devil exists too. Most of these things you're talking about are the result of evil and not coming from God.

2- It is possible, yes. But I am saying that because a nearby person got healed (after waking up from a dream in which he got healed by a saint ) and he was thought to be dead at a late stage of cancer when doctors removed their hands from him

3- Yes, because only religions, and not all of them, believe in that. But all the main ones do, I can search you a real one, and you can judge. Just search for example about people buying ouija boards and feeling presence in their home, and some afterwards get to connect with the spirits through it (evil ones of cours) If these spirits exist, that means that Evil exists, and that shows that God exists .

4- Would be pretty much impossible, and there are 1000s every year who'd get that. But the weird thing is the person would be normal but only gets emotionally influenced by religious things very fast especially christian/evangelical ones, like the posessed cant have a cross in his hand, he cant look at the cross, he cant go to the church, if he sees Virgin Mary he gets a headache, and if you pray near him, he gets angry and crazy and gets uncontrollable, and even the voice changes, and sometimes different languages are spoken by the speaker which he doesnt know

5-You can search the subject about UFOs, through internet, that lots of people are witnessing that, especially the American ones.

6-Weird but true.I mean it was in front of our eyes. It just shows that there are unseen forces in this world

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Because starving children wouldnt die,but sick people may. But of course if these children pray for him, he can help them by getting maybe people into their lives who can help them with food etc., but he can help them not get hungry but stay thin for example, just get much less hunger, if they pray for him from their hearts and ask him. And that's nowhere written in the bible because it is easy recovery comapred to sickness healing as a hungry person eating a lot wouldnt get hungry anymore eafter eating, but a sick person, having a very dangerous disease, no matter what he does, he could've never got healed.

There is a callousness about this post that I find extremely unsettling.

would you tell these kids that they must pray first before getting any pittance that god chooses to give them? Starving children wouldn't die? Have you ever seen a starving child?
I have, and trust me, there is no amount of prayer that can save them from an early death. Using these poor children to advance your belief in a deity is extremely callous.

 

[GA777]

It was mentioned as 'starving' not exceptionnally starving. And God always have pity, but if he is refused by the people he created, why would he help them? This world is dominated by evil forces,tho. God brings him into life and God only interferes for those who truely seek him. That's why there is so much famine-war-sicknesses. Why would God heal all starving children if he doesnt heal all sicknesses, and heal blind people etc. . And also this life is bs compared to heaven's, and the more the person lives a hard life, the more the rewards will be greater and the mercy will be greater on his sins. Like the rich and the poor in the lazarus story, God didnt interfere when the poor was so tormented in his life and couldnt eat anything and when the rich was eating so much and never given the poor anything who always knocked on his door to eat. He didnt take from the rich, neither give the poor. Then both died, the rich went to hell suffering eternal torment and the poor went to heaven and got his rewards greater for living a sad life. God wants US to help those in need of food, because we can. But what we cant, he does it (but sicknesses and such supernatural events happen rarely of course)

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

It was mentioned as 'starving' not exceptionnally starving. And God always have pity, but if he is refused by the people he created, why would he help them?

so a 5 year old starving child is refusing your god? I cannot believe this obscene stance of yours.

 

[Orias]

God never healed everyone, he healed just a few. If he intended to heal us all, he would simply havent created us in this human form.

Sounds like your "God" is narrow minded and self deceitful.

And what does God have anything to do with them if they dont worship him and tell him what they need?

You don't know that they don't call upon him, there is always prayers that go unanswered.

Like I said, when they ask God, they'll get their needs. If they dont ask, they wouldnt get it or at least wouldnt get it from God.

Alright, I see your position.

Reason hardly applies here.

Not everything can be written in the bible. We dont have to find all answers in it, if we want all the answers to our questions in this book, it'll be too big for anyone and nobody would read anything, it simply contains the most important and essential information we need to know.

What you need to know you already do, how to survive.

The bible and religion is hardly practical when it pertains to Live, you would eventually find out that metaphysical words hardly hold any real ground.

Also, your picture seems really pathetic. And you dont sound to be atheist.

Thats a very mature debate tactic.

Non-theist is close enough.

It is typical to observe a sheep with false pride, rambling nonesensically acting as if he actually knew something.

This dogma is so oftenly spoken by those who have no respect for other beliefs other than their own.

This fallacy of yours exists in a different illusional world that escapes and oppresses Man.

What would the world be like if it were full of people like you?

What makes Man what he is, is the challenges and Opposition he overcomes, he learns from it, masters it, and becomes it.

The world refuses to bow to a tyrant, since this tyrants existence depends soley upon the psyche of Man, not to mention he has managed survive in this fabled word merely upon the flash of a sword.

And to see hypocrites condemn wars that they start

 

[GA777]

Their parents would be. He wouldnt be helping out their parents, so of course, they wont be able to eat, neither to feed their children. It's not childrens mistakes, but their parents. And he may help them at a later stage when they grow up, and if they die young like 12- years they would end up in heaven. So what we would've think of, being bad, would end up being good

 

[GA777]

Sounds like your "God" is narrow minded and self deceitful.
Not really, he's the most merciful God and best one. No matter how someone would offend and no matter how many he kills, God can still forgive him if the criminal confesses



You don't know that they don't call upon him, there is always prayers that go unanswered.Not really, he never leaves his children (us) alone. He may answer them, but in the right time, or may not answer them because he knows the future of those consequences and that they will cause nothing but more problems for the person.




Alright, I see your position.

Reason hardly applies here.




What you need to know you already do, how to survive.

The bible and religion is hardly practical when it pertains to Live, you would eventually find out that metaphysical words hardly hold any real ground.That's useless, we'll all die eventually, so nobody would survive in your point of view except for what?120 years tops?






Thats a very mature debate tactic.

Non-theist is close enough.

It is typical to observe a sheep with false pride, rambling nonesensically acting as if he actually knew something.

This dogma is so oftenly spoken by those who have no respect for other beliefs other than their own.

This fallacy of yours exists in a different illusional world that escapes and oppresses Man.

What would the world be like if it were full of people like you?

What makes Man what he is, is the challenges and Opposition he overcomes, he learns from it, masters it, and becomes it.

The world refuses to bow to a tyrant, since this tyrants existence depends soley upon the psyche of Man, not to mention he has managed survive in this fabled word merely upon the flash of a sword.

And to see hypocrites condemn wars that they start

I'm talking the truth about YOUR picture, and of course you know why, that's why you got suddenly angered.
I have nothing against any other thoughts, except those from the Illuminati who think they're so smart controlling people while they are digging their own graves

 

[waitasec]

I'm talking the truth about YOUR picture, and of course you know why, that's why you got suddenly angered.
I have nothing against any other thoughts, except those from the Illuminati who think they're so smart controlling people while they are digging their own graves

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm talking the truth about YOUR picture, and of course you know why, that's why you got suddenly angered.
I have nothing against any other thoughts, except those from the Illuminati who think they're so smart controlling people while they are digging their own graves

Perhaps some get angry because of the version of God which you paint, one which is very much at odds with our values.
Were it imposed by man, the heinous starvation, torture & misery we see would not be tolerated. But when it's deliberately
allowed by a deity, that's what rankles.....the idea that such terrible conditions are planned & morally OK. Personally, I
can't get worked up about supernatural fiction, but some people do. (I'm just not that caring or sensitive, I s'pose.)

 

[Draka]

Just wondering what's your true view about the TRUE God's existence. Tho. I doubt you'd reply and if you would, by replying honestly

I believe that Deity is an energy, a Divine Source, from which all life flows. I believe that it is the very spark of life that permeates throughout everything. I believe that our spirits are but "sparks" of this Whole and that after many incarnations, when we have gathered enough wisdom and grown enough, we will return to the Whole. Therefore we all are part of the Whole and contribute to the Whole at the same time. It contains All. Different aspects found in life and humanity are manifested as gods and goddesses. This is how we communicate directly with the knoweldge of the Divine and how It communicates with us.

Okay, that is a brief synopsis of my view. I was honest. Though I don't know why you would doubt me when you don't even know enough about me to make that call.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

1- The Devil exists too.

Actually, there is no such thing as a devil.

That's just a creature made up by some guy during a bout of fever.