Why would I conclude that Jesus was physically resurrected? There is no reason for me to believe that.
There is no evidence proving the resurrection didn’t happen, so what reason is there to believe there was no resurrection? So why believe there will be no physical resurrection!
How do you figure you are omnipotent enough to know what is necessary or unnecessary for Jesus or God to do when it comes to physical resurrection?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 25:39 KJV.). Why would Jesus give that invitation if it’s just the spirit that counts?
Where does it say in John 3:6 that the flesh and spirit are not meant to be
You pointed out that you don’t need knowledge in order to have common sense, so what else can you show that you do have common sense.
You say is that there is no reason for there have a resurrection. Why is there no reason to have a physical resurrection?
HOW does you saying “Decomposed physical bodies do not rise from the grave and get recomposed” prove that there is no resurrected God who wants us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see?
What science has proven there is no physically resurrected God who wants us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see. So how has science established that conclusion?
I believe there is a physical resurrection by taking a leap of faith by learning and seeking for answers from a God who is believed to have taught reliance on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence if he was then and if he has a begotten son who atoned for our sins and overcame physical death for our sakes. The result for me was experiencing a deep sense of comforting assurance unlike I ever had before. I believe that assurance came from God through the Holy Ghost (John 14:26).
So, what is your proof that ALL of those stories regarding a God who wanted us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see are not true?
Trailblazer said:
I could say the same thing about my Baha’i beliefs and many Baha’is say such things about getting assurance in prayer, so where does that leave us if our beliefs are contradictory?
That if there is a third party who wants to know whether my claim is correct or if you claim is correct concerning getting an assurance of truth from either my God or not, there is only one way for that third party to find out.
Trailblazer said:
Fine, if you believe it came from God, I am not going to argue with you. I prefer to get my assurance from actual scriptures because that is more reliable than my own inner experiences which could be imagined or misconstrued.
That may be the case when it comes to you, but when it comes to my beliefs if they are true one can at least act on faith and ask God if what I believe in is true and that third party can come to their own conclusion.
Trailblazer said:
I do not believe that verse means they would surely die physically, I believe it means they would surely die spiritually because they disobeyed God.
My belief is that if Adam and Eve were not banned from the Garden of Eden and eat from the tree of life they would have lived forever in their sins and therefore live forever exiled from returning back to God.
That separation from God would have been due to their sin. I believe we all are subject to that kind of separation God if we are not forgiven of our sins. I believe it’s that kind of separation from God which defines spiritual death. Like I believe physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body I believe spiritual death is our permanent separation from returning to God.
I believe that the fruit from the tree of life is like the physical resurrection. We would physically live forever, but just living forever isn’t the same as having a life which is having an eternal life.
Well at least we share the point that eternal life deals with the quality of life, although that quality of life I believe is intended to be explained in both spirit and in a perfect resurrected body.
Trailblazer posted:
God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the heavenly realm.
Where is it shown that Christ disposed of the physical body in which he appeared resurrected to his apostles?
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Job 19:26 KJV
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Romans 8:11 KJV
Trailblazer said:
Where does it say that there were any more jobs ahead?
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts1:11 KJV
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness : because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Romans 9:28 KJV
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Acts 9:4-8 KJV
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil .
1John 3:8 KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged ever
Revelation 20:12-13 KJV
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
The Pearl of Great Price; Moses 1:39. (The Pearl of Great Price is an additional volume of scripture from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints)
Where does that scripture say in John 18:36 that there is no physical resurrection in the future from that time? His kingdom was not of this world, so he died and was made alive physically.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Corinthians 15:22 KJV
Adam died physically and so we all die like Adam. Then when we all are made alive in Christ that we all overcome the death that Adam experienced, which is a physical death.
How does it mean that Jesus had nothing more to do after his mortal life when he proclaimed that he finished what he set out to do in his mortal life (John 17:1-5, 11)?
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Peter 3:18-19 KJV
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1Peter 4:6 KJV
Jesus would no longer be in this world of mortality, but his disciples would continue on in this world of mortality. He comes to be one with his father and prays that they be one even as he is with his father, which is one in purpose. Always many yet acting as one.
When a person finishes the work assigned fo that person for the day and calls it a day does not mean that the person becomes retired.
Trailblazer said:
Moreover, nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus say He is coming back to earth, so there is no reason why Christians should have ever believed that!
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:29-39 KJV
Trailblazer said:
I was not implying that God does not want us to rely upon faith. God does want our faith, but there should be some basis for that faith, as God does not expect or want us to just believe anything, since we could end up with false beliefs.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
James 1:5-6 KJV
Trailblazer posted John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
So, just like chocolate comes from or is born from from the cocoa and peanut butter comes from or is born from the peanuts. How does that mean there is no reason to make those two great tastes taste great together?
Trailblazer posted:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
So, line the peanut makes the butter peanutty; the chocolate profitedh nothing of the peanut to become chocolate; the peanuts give flavor to the peanut butter. How does that mean then that there is no reason for the peanut butter to come together with the chocolate?
