Brian2
Veteran Member
I don't know, and I don't know what language we will be speaking.
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For Christians ... a question I've had for a long time
- Thread starter Vinayaka
- Start date
I don't know, and I don't know what language we will be speaking.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Paul said, to the effect, that is isn't clear what body we will have, but all that matters
is that we will be "with him."
So no, there's no physical body - eternity is not a physical thing.
I think you need to give the Christian tradition a lot more credit when it comes to its knowledge about what is in the Bible. It's not as if the men who complied the canon were unfamiliar with its contents. The problem then is your interpretation and cherry picking, because to deny the physical resurrection is to deny the Gospels. After all, the resurrected Christ went so far as to have Thomas touch his side. (As described in the Bible). He was absent from the tomb and even ate with the Apostles.
Forever is a very long time in Heaven, too.
I will enjoy this Earth, since this is meant to be our home. (Psalms 115:16).
Yes, this “world” is sick; it is “passing away” (1 John 2:15-17) But this planet Earth is beautiful; it will ‘abide forever” - Ecclesiastes 1:4
Since Jesus said to pray for God’s will to be done on Earth, that means at this moment, it isn’t being done...right? But what if it were?
I’m sorry you’ve experienced so many awful things. Growing up, for me, wasn’t the greatest, either. Lots of heartache.
Remember, Jesus also said @ Matthew 5:5, “Happy are the meek, since they will inherit the earth.” Psalms 37:9-11 says, “the wicked will be no more.” Now, consider what life would be like! Revelation 7:17 states, “And God will wipe every tear from their eyes.” The same Book, @ Revelation 21:3-4, also says, ....”The tent of God is with mankind....and death will be no more”!
Isaiah 11:6-9 prophesies that even the animals will be at peace, with each other & with man — “a little boy will be leader over them,” why? Because at that time, “the Earth will be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.” (It’s not happening now...God’s “will” is not being done.)
And all those bad things that happened to us in the past, Jehovah God promises, “the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart”! Isaiah 65:17
A loving God, indeed! His love is also seen in His patience, waiting for so long to accomplish His purposes!
Best wishes, my cousin!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's right, because the soul is who Adam was and who we all are, it is our person, and the body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around while we are alive on earth, a vehicle through which the soul expresses itself.
That's right, the soul of Jesus came from heaven and united with His body when He was born of Mary.
At death the body of Adam became a dead body and His soul (spirit) returned to God. God created the soul (spirit) and that is why the verse says "the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
What I believe that verse means is that if Adam broke God's law Adam would experience spiritual death so he would not have eternal life, which is a quality of life of a soul that is close to God. Regardless of what Adam did he would have experienced physical death eventually, as we all do.
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
These verses mean that the soul that sins will not have eternal life.
(John 3:16, John 3:36, John 17:3, 1 John 5:13, John 5:25)
When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body.
Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Jesus was referring a quality of life, loving God and being close to God, and we can have eternal life both in this life and and in the afterlife. Eternal life is a state of the soul that is near to God, so you get eternal life by being close to God. If you sin you lose eternal life because you distance yourself from God.
That's right, but the everlasting life that Adam forfeited was his spiritual life, not His physical life. Eventually Adam would have died physically regardless of whether he had disobeyed God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I was not referring to the physical resurrection of Jesus. Even if Jesus did rise from the grave that does not mean that Christians will rise from their graves the same way Jesus did. There is nothing in what Jesus or Paul said that indicates that dead bodies will rise from graves.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Psalms 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
This Earth is meant to be the home of people who are born in it, until they die. After they die they go to the spiritual world, aka heaven.
God's will will be done on Earth eventually.
That's right but these meek will be those people who are living at the time when the Kingdom of God comes to earth, they will not be people who have died and risen from graves. The death that will be no more is spiritual death, not physical death. Physical death will always be since physical bodies are mortal.
Isaiah 11:6-9 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
I do not believe that these verses are about animals, I believe they are about humans and they are metaphorical What they mean to a Baha’i is that In the future diverse religions and races will become comrades, friends and companions. The contentions of races, the differences of religions, and the barriers between nations will be completely removed, and all will attain perfect union and reconciliation. Eventually, everyone will believe in God and there will be only one religion, the religion of God.
I fully agree, the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. God has been loving and patient. Where my beliefs differ from yours is that I believe that God is not going to accomplish His Purposes, humans are going to accomplish God's Purpose for us.
God’s Purpose
John 5:28-29...”in the memorial tombs...shall come out...”
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
When Christ returns people shall come out of their graves of spiritual ignorance and be resurrected to spiritual life but those who have done evil will be as the dead because they will not have spiritual life.
But that is a separate matter from what happens to every one of us when we die physically, as we all pass from one world into another world.
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
Don't know whether this was mentioned before ...
Matthew 22:30
23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses declared that if a man dies without having children, his brother is to marry the widow and raise up offspring for him.b 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died without having children. So he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brothers, down to the seventh. 27And last of all, the woman died. 28In the resurrection, then, whose wife will she be of the seven? For all of them were married to her.”29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angelsc in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’d? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”
Matthew 22:30
23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses declared that if a man dies without having children, his brother is to marry the widow and raise up offspring for him.b 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died without having children. So he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brothers, down to the seventh. 27And last of all, the woman died. 28In the resurrection, then, whose wife will she be of the seven? For all of them were married to her.”29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angelsc in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’d? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
It doesn't say in the bible, does it? Paul said it's not obvious what body we will have
but that doesn't matter if we are with Him.
His resurrected body did. Still physical - you could touch it, he could eat, it had substance. It was the body that was in the tomb but fully redeemed since he did not sin.
Nice adaptation and twisting of both what I said and the intent of what I said.
Maybe... I don't agree with that hypothesis. The worlds are physical and God has a place as creation receives its redemption.
I only meant over non-Christians. I'd rather ask my podiatrist about my feet than my psychiatrist.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Are we talking about the Judean Christian God?
cataway
Well-Known Member
gee what makes you think the separating is not happening right now ?
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
In a sense, you are right. But then this isn't a spiritual separation, but a physical one, so to speak - a separation
that lasts forever.
Jesus's "Heavenly body" still had the wounds that killed him.At this point, it is just a theological position as the Bible doesn't speak specifically about the resurrected body. The assumption is that it has the same capacity as the body of Jesus Christ. You can eat, you can touch and yet you have a capacity to walk through a shut door.
LOL
Again.. PURELY a debatable theological thought.a Heavenly yet physical body.