For Christians ... a question I've had for a long time

[nPeace]

Immortal means living forever; never dying or decaying.
It is impossible for a physical body to live forever.
Why would you even want a physical body that lives forever?

No one in good physical and mental health wants to die. With God nothing is impossible. Sustaining a physical body is not beyond God.
Since God knows how to renew cells in an instance, there is no logical reason to think that he does not have the ability to keep those cells renewing forever.
(Matthew 12:13) . . .Then he said to the man: “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored sound like the other hand.
The energy God has, is not man made.
Whereas we use special effects, God doesn't.

 

[nPeace]

Can you point me to those verses?

I believe that the everlasting life referred to in the Bible is the life of the soul, not the life of the body. Everlasting life is spiritual life, the life of the soul that is close to God.

Is there a scripture you have in mind that says the soul has everlasting life?

 

[Nivek001]

For those of you who believe in a physical resurrection, which body do you get? Do you get your aged aching body you died in, or the one where you were at your healthiest, or do you get a free choice, or some other answer?

42 Now, there is a death which is called a temporal death; and the death of Christ shall loose the bands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death.
43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
(Book of Mormon; Alma 11:42-44)



20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1Corinthians 15:20-22 KJV)


13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Revelation 20:13-14 KJV)

 

[roberto]

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Can one of you guys please explain to me what happened to/with the people Messiah raised with him?

 

[nPeace]

Adam was a living soul - Genesis 2:7
Adam did Not possess a soul, Adam did Not have a soul, rather Adam was a soul.
Adam was from dust, it was Jesus who was from heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:47
At death Adam become a dead soul returning to the dust where Adam started - Genesis 3:19
Adam was Never offered immortality because Adam was told if you break God's law you would die - Genesis 2:17
The immortal can Not die. If Adam could Not die it would have been useless to tell Adam he could die.
The soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20
Adam started out a spiritual person, a soul that was close to God, with everlasting life in view to live forever on Earth.
Adam chose to disobey God and thus forfeited his everlasting life.

This is true. Adam would never had grown wrinkly skinned. Nor had failing eyes, weak knees. a bad back, gray hairs, lost his teeth... if he had not disobeyed God.
So his body was not susceptible to decay... until after he disobeyed God.
Well done URAVIP2ME.

 

[nPeace]

You have NO IDEA how much better heaven is than earth. If you only knew you would wish that God would hasten your demise. That is one reason the nature of the afterlife has never been revealed by God, because God needs us here on earth to build His Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven, as Jesus said.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

You only "believe" it would be great to live forever on earth in a physical body, but you would get really bored eventually as forever is a very long time....

My life on earth has been more suffering than joy and one reason God allows suffering is so we will not become attached to this world. Notably, Jesus also said that we should not get attached to our life in this world.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

I am banking on heaven because I know it will be much better and I will never get bored.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

Can I say Trailblazer... it's not about what we want.
God is not a genie in a bottle.
God has a purpose. we are the ones who have to fit into it. The only other choice we have is to reject it, and him, because it does not fit our wants.
That's basically the point Jesus was making to the rich man. (Matthew 19:21, 22)

 

[Nivek001]

Can one of you guys please explain to me what happened to/with the people Messiah raised with him?

Do you mean the ones Christ raised from the dead during his mortal ministry such as Lazarus?
If they are whom you are referring to, I don’t know other than although Jesus brought them back from the dead they were not resurrected in the way Jesus himself was.
I believe that when Jesus was resurrected he actually overcame death itself. It wasn’t until Jesus’s resurrection when the conditions of death would be overcome for all of humanity. Jesus, having a mortal mother was capable of suffering and subject to death, and having a divine father was able to overcome death.
When it came to those in Jesus’s mortal ministry with whom he rose from the dead, like Lazarus, they did not become immortal like with Jesus. They would eventually die again and remain dead until the time will come when they will be resurrected to become immortal.

 

[nPeace]

I think you need to give the Christian tradition a lot more credit when it comes to its knowledge about what is in the Bible. It's not as if the men who complied the canon were unfamiliar with its contents. The problem then is your interpretation and cherry picking, because to deny the physical resurrection is to deny the Gospels. After all, the resurrected Christ went so far as to have Thomas touch his side. (As described in the Bible). He was absent from the tomb and even ate with the Apostles.

He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, (1 Peter 3:18, 19)
Which Christian tradition are you referring to... the first century, of which Peter and the earlier followers of Christ belonged, or second century Christianity, which sprang out of this... and is referred to here?

 

[Nivek001]

He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, (1 Peter 3:18, 19)
Which Christian tradition are you referring to... the first century, of which Peter and the earlier followers of Christ belonged, or second century Christianity, which sprang out of this... and is referred to here?

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(1Peter 3:18-20 KJV)

I believe those verses described what Jesus was doing between his death and resurrection. Those verses also shows that salvation was still possible for many. Even back in the great flood there were innocents such as children who perished.

That brings to me a sense of hope since it shows that say for someone who in life may have never even heard of the name of Jesus Christ but otherwise lived an good life overall still has a shot at salvation. That God has not forgotten or forsaken these individuals.

 

[nPeace]

His resurrected body did. Still physical - you could touch it, he could eat, it had substance. It was the body that was in the tomb but fully redeemed since he did not sin.

So you are saying the angels had physical bodies?

 

[Nivek001]

So you are saying the angels had physical bodies?

Well, I believe some of them have bodies. For the ones that do probably would allow you to say hold their hand and you could tell for certain. If not, the angel probably would not permit you to touch or let you know he or she is a spirit only.

 

[PruePhillip]

Maybe... I don't agree with that hypothesis. The worlds are physical and God has a place as creation receives its redemption.

Yes and no. The bible speaks of a 1,000 year reign. And then the natural
world passes away. Heaven is something outside the realm of nature. The
bible is fairly clear on that - there's no sun, no sea and not even a mention
of birds, flowers, rainbows and things which populate religious books about
heaven.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I'm sorry, @Trailblazer , but the Bible never mentions 'graves of spiritual ignorance'. That's reading into the text what isn't there.
If 'graves of spiritual ignorance' were accurate, are the righteous 'spiritually ignorant'? As opposed to those who have "done evil"?
(The word for "graves" in John 5:28, μνημείοις (mnēmeiois), BTW, is better translated as "Memorial Tombs". Only the literal dead have memorial tombs.)

You're right in that there are those chosen to go to Heaven and they are those in the "earlier Resurrection" Philippians 3:11, "the first Resurrection" Revelation 20:6, but they have a role to fulfill: that of being kings with Jesus. Revelation 5:9-10.
Not everyone can be a king.

Kings rule, don't they? Over what? Subjects, ie., People. (The vast majority of whom will be resurrected in the later Resurrection.)
The 'meek that will inherit the earth' will be those subjects.

All who worship Jehovah, we long for His Son's Kingdom rule over this Earth, & the blessings that will bring.

 

[PruePhillip]

I'm sorry, @Trailblazer , but the Bible never mentions 'graves of spiritual ignorance'. That's reading into the text what isn't there.
If 'graves of spiritual ignorance' were accurate, are the righteous 'spiritually ignorant'? As opposed to those have "done evil"?
(The word for "graves" in John 5:28, μνημείοις (mnēmeiois), BTW, is better translated as "Memorial Tombs". Only the literal dead have memorial tombs.)

You're right in that there are those chosen to go to Heaven and they are those in the "earlier Resurrection" Philippians 3:11, "the first Resurrection" Revelation 20:6, but they have a role to fulfill: that of being kings with Jesus. Revelation 5:9-10.
Not everyone can be a king.

Kings rule, don't they? Over what? Subjects, ie., People. (The vast majority of whom will be resurrected in the later Resurrection.)
The 'meek that will inherit the earth' will be those subjects.

Myself and all who worship Jehovah, we long for His Son's Kingdom rule over this Earth, & the blessings that will bring.

The meek shall inherit the earth is in part symbolism, and part literal IMO.
The literal is the thousand year reign, the spiritual is eternal reign with God.
And it says the heaven and the earth fled from the face of God, and were
found no more. Heaven is a realm where there is no more sea, no light of
the sun, no more of anything found in my illustrative religious publications.

 

[Trailblazer]

gee what makes you think the separating is not happening right now ?

I believe it is happening right now since I believe that Christ returned in the 19th century.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Can one of you guys please explain to me what happened to/with the people Messiah raised with him?

Since it was Not the time for Jesus' 1,000 year reign over Earth those people died again.- Luke 19:11-15
Remember Jesus' dead friend at John chapter 11 ________
If we turn to John 12:9-10 you will find the chief priests consulted on how to get rid of Jesus' resurrected friend.
Apparently they succeeded in killing Jesus' friend because there is No record of him after that.
In other words, his friend was absent Not listed as being around when Jesus died or when he was resurrected.
Like John the Baptist, Jesus' friend will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection - Matthew 11:11; Acts of the Apostles 24:15

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm sorry, @Trailblazer , but the Bible never mentions 'graves of spiritual ignorance'. That's reading into the text what isn't there.

I am sorry but the Bible never mentions physical graves in the ground. That's reading into the text what isn't there.

“Sleep” and “Graves”

There are a few biblical passages that seem to talk about how people who die will sleep in the grave until Judgment Day. Some argue that this means the dead know nothing. On the other hand, there are other passages, and such things as near-death experiences, that suggest the opposite—that the afterlife begins at the moment of death. How can these understandings be reconciled?

As discussed in a previous episode, “Why Does the Bible Say ‘The Dead Know Nothing’?,” the key to getting at the meaning of such terms in the Bible as “dead,” “death,” and “life” is Swedenborg’s science of correspondences, which reveals how words and ideas in the Bible have symbolic meanings that represent deeper truths. In this case, the same approach could be applied to “sleep” and “graves.”

Sleeping signifies natural life without spiritual, since natural life compared with spiritual is as sleep to wakefulness. (Apocalypse Explained §187:8)

So the difference between sleep and wakefulness is a matter of the depth of one’s awareness. When we “wake up” in the spiritual sense, it’ll be to a higher truth.

A person who learns truths and lives according to them is like someone who awakens from sleep and becomes alert. (Apocalypse Revealed §158)

But what about the graves?

Everything has a positive and negative correspondence. The negative correspondence of graves is obvious, but how could burial ever be connected to something other than death? Well, what if the thing you are burying is a seed?

So burial isn’t just death; it also symbolizes rebirth. Without it, we couldn’t have new lives in God.

Swedenborg & Life Live Recap: Why Does the Bible Say People Sleep in the Grave? — 9/10/18 – Swedenborg Foundation

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The meek shall inherit the earth is in part symbolism, and part literal IMO.
The literal is the thousand year reign, the spiritual is eternal reign with God.
And it says the heaven and the earth fled from the face of God, and were
found no more. Heaven is a realm where there is no more sea, no light of
the sun, no more of anything found in my illustrative religious publications.

Huh? I find Jesus was referring back to Psalms 37:9-11,29 when he said the meek will inherit the Earth.
Earth exists forever according to the Bible -> Please see Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5; Psalms 78:69
Earthly subjects under Christ will be here on Earth from: sea to sea - see Psalms 72:8; 12-14.
I find God had a reason for Earth - it is a gift to us - Psalms 115:16
God's purpose is that Earth be inhabited - Isaiah 45:18
Inhabited by healthy people as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
If Adam had Not broken God's Law then Adam would be here to day and could stay here on Earth forever and ever.
Earth wasn't meant to be a stepping stone to another place, that is why most people can gain everlasting life on Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe it is happening right now since I believe that Christ returned in the 19th century.

I find we are nearing the soon coming ' glory ' time for Jesus according to Matthew 25:31-33.
Jesus then will separate the figurative sheep and goats.
The living 'sheep' can remain alive on Earth and continue to live on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth for a thousand years before Jesus hands back God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) to his God.
- see 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.

 

[PruePhillip]

Huh? I find Jesus was referring back to Psalms 37:9-11,29 when he said the meek will inherit the Earth.
Earth exists forever according to the Bible -> Please see Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5; Psalms 78:69
Earthly subjects under Christ will be here on Earth from: sea to sea - see Psalms 72:8; 12-14.
I find God had a reason for Earth - it is a gift to us - Psalms 115:16
God's purpose is that Earth be inhabited - Isaiah 45:18
Inhabited by healthy people as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
If Adam had Not broken God's Law then Adam would be here to day and could stay here on Earth forever and ever.
Earth wasn't meant to be a stepping stone to another place, that is why most people can gain everlasting life on Earth.

I take it you are not a Christian? And you don't quote Revelations.