For Christians ... a question I've had for a long time

[URAVIP2ME]

His resurrected body did. Still physical - you could touch it, he could eat, it had substance. It was the body that was in the tomb but fully redeemed since he did not sin.

I think I understand why you say the ^ above ^.
When the angels of Noah's day put on a materialized body they could eat and drink, etc. so could Jesus use materialized bodies.
So, the resurrected Jesus used different materialized bodies after he was resurrected as shown at Luke 24:13-43
His disciple thought the resurrected Jesus was a ' stranger ' at Luke 24:18,27
If he had his physical body he would have been recognized.
Notice what was interesting at Luke 24:31 because the resurrected Jesus disappeared from them. The physical can't do that.
The fact he had to reveal himself also shows Jesus used materialized bodies. ( bodies that could eat and drink, etc. )
I find Mary did Not recognize the resurrected Jesus thinking he was the gardener at John 20:15.
If he had his physical body she would have known it was Jesus.
Interesting to me at John 21:12-16 where it is the third (3rd) time Jesus shows himself.
I think we can agree that ' flesh and blood' (physical) can NOT inherit the kingdom as per 1 Corinthians 15:50.
So, the ascension found at Acts of the Apostles 1:8 was Not a physical ascension to Heaven.
Physical does Not exist in the heavens, so Jesus appeared in front of his God in his before-coming-to-earth spirit body - Hebrews 9:24.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I take it you are not a Christian? And you don't quote Revelations.

I find there is only one Revelation. Revelation has 16 visions but it is still only one Revelation.
Basically a revelation is a revealing ,and in the case of the Bible Book of Revelation it is a revealing about the future.
I find we are all invited to pray the invitation found at Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.
This was in fulfillment of Ezekiel 47:12
This is why Jesus instructed to pray for God's kingdom to come..... ( thy kingdom come.... )
We are Not instructed to pray to be 'taken away' to the kingdom, nor pray to be 'taken up' to the kingdom....
As to who will be here on Earth at this coming time is a great crowd of people according to Revelation 7:9
This great multitude come through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
They will be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000 year reign over Earth.

 

[nPeace]

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(1Peter 3:18-20 KJV)

I believe those verses described what Jesus was doing between his death and resurrection. Those verses also shows that salvation was still possible for many. Even back in the great flood there were innocents such as children who perished.

That brings to me a sense of hope since it shows that say for someone who in life may have never even heard of the name of Jesus Christ but otherwise lived an good life overall still has a shot at salvation. That God has not forgotten or forsaken these individuals.

Do you mean you see the verse as symbolic?
The verse which says he was put to death in the flesh... What does that mean to you?

 

[PruePhillip]

I find there is only one Revelation. Revelation has 16 visions but it is still only one Revelation.
Basically a revelation is a revealing ,and in the case of the Bible Book of Revelation it is a revealing about the future.
I find we are all invited to pray the invitation found at Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations according to Revelation 22:2.
This was in fulfillment of Ezekiel 47:12
This is why Jesus instructed to pray for God's kingdom to come..... ( thy kingdom come.... )
We are Not instructed to pray to be 'taken away' to the kingdom, nor pray to be 'taken up' to the kingdom....
As to who will be here on Earth at this coming time is a great crowd of people according to Revelation 7:9
This great multitude come through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
They will be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000 year reign over Earth.

To a point, yes, but it tells us that after this thousand year reign there will be the Judgement. And then
the earth and the universe will be no more. And there will be a realm where there is

no more time
no sun
no sea

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, you are right. Physical bodies are immortal, and subject to decay... So is the earth - subject to deteriorating. Can God sustain or preserve, and renew both, thus preventing decay?

I do not know what God can do, but I know what God has done and what makes logical sense.
There is no reason on God's green earth why God would override the natural laws that He Himself created in order to sustain or preserve life or renew life thus preventing decay.

I consider this to be a completely insane Christian belief that came about by misinterpreting the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not think most Christians have the answer.

That is what many Christians say about other Christians.
So what reason is there to believe that certain Christians have the answer and others don't?
After all, they are all reading from the same Bible.

 

[nPeace]

I find we are nearing the soon coming ' glory ' time for Jesus according to Matthew 25:31-33.
Jesus then will separate the figurative sheep and goats.
The living 'sheep' can remain alive on Earth and continue to live on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth for a thousand years before Jesus hands back God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) to his God.
- see 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.

...here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth...
I like that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus's "Heavenly body" still had the wounds that killed him.

Only one of Jesus' materialized bodies and that was for doubting Thomas.
Resurrected Jesus used different materialized bodies such as found at John 20:14
She would Not have mistaken Jesus for the gardener at verse 15 if he had his physical body.
By the time of John 21:4 we see the disciples did Not realize it was Jesus.
Also, please notice Luke 24:15-16 because Jesus was Not at first recognized.
Not til Luke 24:31 did they recognize Jesus.
Plus, a physical body could Not disappear as Jesus did in verse 31.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

To a point, yes, but it tells us that after this thousand year reign there will be the Judgement. And then
the earth and the universe will be no more. And there will be a realm where there is no more time no sun no sea

How could the Earth be No more when Earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5
How could Jesus have citizens or subjects from sea to sea if the sea was No more - Psalms 72:8
Rather, I find Earth will be as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth...
I like that.

i like that too because under Christ's Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth, even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth
- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

 

[nPeace]

I do not know what God can do, but I know what God has done and what makes logical sense.
There is no reason on God's green earth why God would override the natural laws that He Himself created in order to sustain or preserve life or renew life thus preventing decay.

I consider this to be a completely insane Christian belief that came about by misinterpreting the Bible.

What natural law would God be breaking?
There are higher forms of energy and there are different forms of matter.
Why does God have to break a law to use a higher form of energy to transform into a form of matter that does not decay?
Are you saying God is limited to only what you know?

 

[PruePhillip]

How could the Earth be No more when Earth abides forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalms 104:5
How could Jesus have citizens or subjects from sea to sea if the sea was No more - Psalms 72:8
Rather, I find Earth will be as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

I see there are promises for the earth. Greening, peace etc..
WHILE THE EARTH IS STILL HERE.
For every quote for a renewed earth there's a quote for the
end of this earth. Reconciliation is the key here. I suspect
you don't believe in the Christian New Testament.

 

[Trailblazer]

No one in good physical and mental health wants to die. With God nothing is impossible. Sustaining a physical body is not beyond God.

Tough luck. God designed bodies so they would die and we cannot do anything about that. Nobody likes to die or see their loved ones die, but making up false beliefs about how people are going to rise from their graves and have their flesh reconstituted is not going to solve this problem. We must face reality, and the reality is what Paul said it was, not what Christianity teaches.

What Paul wrote is right on the money. I picked the most pertinent verses from the chapter because that helps to see it clearer. Our dying bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.
Matthew 22:30

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses declared that if a man dies without having children, his brother is to marry the widow and raise up offspring for him.b 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died without having children. So he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brothers, down to the seventh. 27And last of all, the woman died. 28In the resurrection, then, whose wife will she be of the seven? For all of them were married to her.”29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angelsc in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’d? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Since God knows how to renew cells in an instance, there is no logical reason to think that he does not have the ability to keep those cells renewing forever.

God never does everything He has the ability to do. God only does what He chooses to do, not what people want Him to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

God is not going to raise people from the dead just because they do not want to remain dead. God is not a short order cook and He is not answerable to humans.

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

 

[nPeace]

Well, I believe some of them have bodies. For the ones that do probably would allow you to say hold their hand and you could tell for certain. If not, the angel probably would not permit you to touch or let you know he or she is a spirit only.

They all have bodies. It's just that they are spirit bodies, as opposed to physical bodies which earthling creatures have.
(1 Corinthians 15:40) . . .And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort.

On what do you base your beliefs though. Do you let the sciptures give you the answer, or do you go by what you feel?
What does the scriptures tell us about angels?
(Hebrews 1:7) . . .he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.”

Does that affect your belief, or do you still think what you believe is correct?

 

[Trailblazer]

Is there a scripture you have in mind that says the soul has everlasting life?

Is there a scripture you have in mind that says the body has everlasting life?

The following verses refer to the everlasting life/eternal life of the soul. One reason we know that is because we know that the physical body was not designed to live forever.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 4:13-14 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can I say Trailblazer... it's not about what we want.
God is not a genie in a bottle.
God has a purpose. we are the ones who have to fit into it. The only other choice we have is to reject it, and him, because it does not fit our wants.
That's basically the point Jesus was making to the rich man. (Matthew 19:21, 22)

I fully agree. It is not about what we want, it is about what God wants. I just do not believe that Christians know what God wants, what God's Purpose is for them.

God’s Purpose

 

[Tiberius]

Nice adaptation and twisting of both what I said and the intent of what I said.

Well, if you aren't going to be clear...

And I think it was clear my post was meant as a joke.

 

[nPeace]

Tough luck. God designed bodies so they would die and we cannot do anything about that. Nobody likes to die or see their loved ones die, but making up false beliefs about how people are going to rise from their graves and have their flesh reconstituted is not going to solve this problem. We must face reality, and the reality is what Paul said it was, not what Christianity teaches.
I understand that is what you believe, but no scripture agrees with you.

Can you quote a scripture that says God created Adam to die?
No. Then that claim is retracted then?

What Paul wrote is right on the money. I picked the most pertinent verses from the chapter because that helps to see it clearer. Our dying bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

No scripture says that either Trailblazer.
The saints, or holy one will receive immortal spirit bodies.
That has nothing to do with you.
Besides, you are not Christian, and you don't consider the Bible to be accurate, and not free from fraud, so I don't understand why you are quoting Paul, and including yourself in what he says.
Am I mistaken...Were you not one that said Paul was against what Jesus said... Or am I confusing you with someone else?

1 Corinthians 15:35-58 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.
Matthew 22:30

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned Him. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses declared that if a man dies without having children, his brother is to marry the widow and raise up offspring for him.b 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died without having children. So he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brothers, down to the seventh. 27And last of all, the woman died. 28In the resurrection, then, whose wife will she be of the seven? For all of them were married to her.”29Jesus answered, “You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angelsc in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’d? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

God never does everything He has the ability to do. God only does what He chooses to do, not what people want Him to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

God is not going to raise people from the dead just because they do not want to remain dead. God is not a short order cook and He is not answerable to humans.

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

It's good to hear you say you understand that.
So then because you are tired of earth and want to go to heaven, does not mean that will happen, agreed? ...because God never purposed that... as my friend @URAVIP2ME has clearly shown in the scriptures.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I see there are promises for the earth. Greening, peace etc..
WHILE THE EARTH IS STILL HERE.
For every quote for a renewed earth there's a quote for the
end of this earth. Reconciliation is the key here. I suspect
you don't believe in the Christian New Testament.

End of Earth's badness. Not the planet.
Please notice 2 Peter 3:5; 2 Peter 3:7; 3 Peter 3:13.
Heavens in Scripture can refer to governmental heavens because governments are often lofty over people.
At 2 Peter 3:5 we find the heavens and earth of OLD ( Noah's day )
The literal heavens and earth did Not perish in Noah's day. The wicked perished.
At 2 Peter 3:7 we find the heavens and earth of NOW Meaning from Noah's day to our day.
At 2 Peter 3:13 we find the NEW heavens and earth.
What then dwells on earth is: righteousness.( being made NEW free from wickedness )
That righteous heavens over earth is Jesus' millennial reign over earth for a thousand years.
At the end of the thousand years earth will be a paradisical earth as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.
Paradisical to the point that even ' enemy death ' will be No more on earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26.
So, what will be destroyed are corrupted governmental heavens.
Mankind will have the original opportunity as offered to Adam before his downfall:
To live forever on Earth. That is God's purpose, His will for Earth.
Remember that Jesus at NT Matthew 5:5 was referring to Psalms 37:9-11.

 

[Trailblazer]

...here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth...
I like that.

Evidence?