• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

For Christians, how do you view Jesus?

Noa

Active Member
To the OP: Oddly enough, trying to coalesce a stable view of Christ and my relationship to him is one of the foundational things that has made my faith so hard for me. I have had many years where I considered myself a Christian and many years where I did not.

A slow, changing view of Christ and what he calls us to be is one of the primary things that has recently been pushing me back to the faith.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Hell doesn't exist, and Jesus told Judas this explicitly. He also said that it was too dangerous for the world to know this.
Logically, God must know our future before we act, as is demanded by the term "omniscient". Thus, there would be no justice in punishing us after death for the sins he knew would take place and, thus, initially caused. Imho, life is meant to teach us. Whether we get a second shot at it or a third is unknown. But, all in all, we gain knowledge. Maybe it's a way of strengthening our souls. Who knows ... but, hell doesn't make any sense.

Which hell doesn't exist ? There is the false permanent non-biblical hell of burning forever, and the Bible's temporary hell or grave for the sleeping dead. - John 11:11-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4

If biblical hell ( grave ) did Not exist then Jesus could Not have gone to hell the day Jesus died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Jesus was in death's deep sleep until God resurrected Jesus out of hell - Acts of the Apostles 3:15
Jesus now has the keys to unlock hell for us - Revelation 1:18

God would know our future before we act if it were not for His gift of free-will choices.
Adam was Not a robot or an automaton. Adam was Not forced to obey or worship God.
Because God honors our free-will choices we can all choose to obey God or not.
Once we sin our leanings are No longer toward righteousness but lean toward wrongdoing.

Adam had No postmortem punishment, but Adam simply ' returned' ( went back ) to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
Please notice what Romans 6:7 says about the dead. So, unless one has committed the sin of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 they will have a resurrection as promised at Acts of the Apostles 24:15.

The resurrected have that ' second shot ' as you worded it, because most people will have a healthy physical resurrection back to life on earth during Jesus' coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth. Jesus first will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill starting with those of Matthew 25:31-32.

Remember too the Bible's temporary hell comes to a final end - Revelation 20:13-14 - because after everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( resurrected out of the grave ) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
Aside from the Biblical stories OF Jesus, what are your personal views of Him? Now that I've come back to the faith, my views of Him are different than what they were prior to my deconversion. He can change lives, He is not only interested in showing us how to love, but He IS love. Incredible to someone like me who had 'shut out' Jesus for a while.

Look forward to hearing your own views. :sunflower:

Deidre back to religion??
Wow i missed a lot!
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Which hell doesn't exist ? There is the false permanent non-biblical hell of burning forever, and the Bible's temporary hell or grave for the sleeping dead. - John 11:11-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4

If biblical hell ( grave ) did Not exist then Jesus could Not have gone to hell the day Jesus died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Jesus was in death's deep sleep until God resurrected Jesus out of hell - Acts of the Apostles 3:15
Jesus now has the keys to unlock hell for us - Revelation 1:18

God would know our future before we act if it were not for His gift of free-will choices.
Adam was Not a robot or an automaton. Adam was Not forced to obey or worship God.
Because God honors our free-will choices we can all choose to obey God or not.
Once we sin our leanings are No longer toward righteousness but lean toward wrongdoing.

Adam had No postmortem punishment, but Adam simply ' returned' ( went back ) to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
Please notice what Romans 6:7 says about the dead. So, unless one has committed the sin of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 they will have a resurrection as promised at Acts of the Apostles 24:15.

The resurrected have that ' second shot ' as you worded it, because most people will have a healthy physical resurrection back to life on earth during Jesus' coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth. Jesus first will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill starting with those of Matthew 25:31-32.

Remember too the Bible's temporary hell comes to a final end - Revelation 20:13-14 - because after everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( resurrected out of the grave ) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
I thought I made it clear, but I don't exactly trust the texts you've cited here. I feel that the spirit of Christ's teachings ring obviously true, but the literal texts have to be taken with a grain of salt. I don't really "buy" Paul's "story", and, thus don't give Acts too much credence. Hell doesn't make sense with the spirit of the rest of Christ's teachings. And, much of the epistles are in the same boat. No surprise, as Paul never even met Jesus.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I thought I made it clear, but I don't exactly trust the texts you've cited here. I feel that the spirit of Christ's teachings ring obviously true, but the literal texts have to be taken with a grain of salt. I don't really "buy" Paul's "story", and, thus don't give Acts too much credence. Hell doesn't make sense with the spirit of the rest of Christ's teachings. And, much of the epistles are in the same boat. No surprise, as Paul never even met Jesus.
I lean in agreement with you about Paul.
 

PeteC-UK

Active Member
Hi Folks..

Yeshua who is Christ - never mentions any form of "eternal punishment" - never mentions a "hell realm" - never mentions a ruler of that realm who is an adversary to the Father....

NOT,in the original gospels anyway - such things ONLY appear in the "canon gospels" - church agenda and all that....See clearly - this modern church,is the same old same old - Pharisee tradition - THAT god and system of worship - and see then,Christ aready went to great lengths to explain that THAT god - well - simply put - that god of the hebrews,is not Our Father that He taught us about..He says that god of the hebrews,is not even a "god" at all - but is a mere Angel,that mistakenly believes itslef to be supreme...

Indeed,He lays out all of Creation for us - right from Our Fathers first stirring Self awareness -through to mankind walks th eEArth - and even what is to cme after the mortal death....NOWHERE,is there mention of hell,eternal punishmnent or any such thing....According to Christ - THIS realm right here,prime material world we all share - this realm is the furthest from the Father,and in fact,this relm was created purposefuly seperate and once entirely hidden - alongside this,whenever He speaks of "sin" or "evil",( the very things that supposedly put us inthis hell ),
it is ALWAYS an aspect of the lower MORTAL MIND - its guidance under the influence of the world "out there" and those who we alow to "lead us"...In short,using this limited,handicapped,divided and broken mortal mind - this IS sin itself - all actins that follow fromthis limited guidance,lead to sin - errors of judgement - and following those judgements leads to "evil actions" - we are literally born into "sin" and the world around is corrupt,ignorant - and so ,if there is a "hell" where we are judged and treated accordingly -then it is indeed,HERE AND NOW...This lower realm ,prime ,material plane riught here,this is the adversary to overcome,this is the place to "escape from"..

All of His essential teaching,is aimed at showing us,revealing this inner communion,direct experience of th eliving Divinity,and that leads to Self transformation,and literally allows us to Ascend from this lowest plane of existance....The church authoirty simply do not want us to have that wisdom,and so ,it is carefully edited out of the bible,and in its place,we are spoon fed doctrines that make it seem like "we are unworthy",and essentially "need the church to intervene on our behalf" - thus the church stole His truth and replaced it with counterfeit half truths...You simply cannot trust the bible - for it is not of the Father - wrong god,lesser god - a traditon and established religion that Christ warned us against many times - most emphatically told us we MUST come to a position in our mind,where we "HATE the parents" - their ways,traditions,"truths" - all base error He said,wrong god,not the Father....

And see just as clearly - this "god" of the hebrews,has literally trapped us here in HIS realm - trapped his Agels here also..He wont allow us to come to the Father,SOURCE OF CREATION,for he told us plainly,he is a "jealous god" and we may have none others before him...Think aboiut it Folks - this god of the bible had his priests MURDER CHRIST - so WHY did you think that happened - REALLY..??...

What this god then - says ot his priests - keep an eye out for my son,I send him to save you all - but then when HE comes,the priests MURDER HIm..?...Tha is what is SUPPOSED to have happened.....But what ACTUALLY happened,was thus - the hebrews believed their god supreme,expected a "messiah" - yet when He comes,He tells them all their god is a liar,trickster,deceiving us all - He then tells of a new and authentic Divinity,and tells us plainly that NONE know of this truth,ever,not even the Angels or "god" above He says knows HIS FATHER - completly SEPERATE and DIFFERENT entity altogether and He makes that very plan in many places also !!

He then goes about and PROVES HIs Divine claims - by performing MIRACLES - and look - no priest of yahweh could possibly match HIm - He heals LEPERS with just a touch and a Word - but the priest said such people are beyond their "gods" help - the priest CANNOT HEAL THEM,and so instead,shun them and make them outcast...Along comes Yeshua who is Christ though - and immedialty heals the incurable leper who is beyod th help of this "god" and thus PROVES HE IS the living Divinity - proves the hebrew god to be a much lesser god altogether...When this truth fully dawned - wrong god,lesser god - the priests act to protect their own power and status,and so contrive to murde HIm,as we know....The truth is,He told us all,the god of the bible is NOT Our Father,and then He proved it time and time again,by performing dynamic spur of the moent miracles,that no priest of yahweh could even come close to attaining...Obviously,this was a direct threat toi their own authroity,power and status..

Christ essentially taught a means to bypass these lower reams entirely,escape the enforced worship of this lesser god,and attain the living Divinity directly,for the Self.....Thus th eestablished religon,becomes completly OBSOLTE - not only is it the wrong gd,lesser god,but look,He said we dotn actually NEED a priest,rabbi,imtermediary middleman - all that we ever need,is already contained WITHIN US He said - find it there inside,bring it forth "out in the world",save your Self He said...Yet again,another direct threat to the established religion - His teachng literally makes such instituions null and void - become a GNOSTIC He said,seek the living Divinity always - an INNER communion that cannot be given to you by any Other,and indeed,folloing the other in that religious manner,He said will hinder and prohibit your own progress - damn the Pharisee who neither know truth,nor allow you to apporach He said....Let it sink in deep.......

He has no affiliation witht that jewish god at all - said so quite plainly many times and places....And yet,the modern religion is simply a continuation of the old - the pharisee traditon that Christ openly despised....The bible is the book of yahweh,and that is not Our Father..They murdered Him and replaced His truth with half truths and outright deceptions - hunted down,tortured and killed any and all who knew His original truth - and thus over centuries now,this bogus bible truth,is taken to be authentic,when actually,it never was authentic at all...Part of this bogus "truth" - is the doctrine of hell and eternal punishment - NEVER mentioned by Christ at all...We can see why the CHURCH need such threats of course - to dominate us,keep us under control - but as Christ said - know the truth here,and the truth shall set you free...

Any here who doubt this - ask your Self two simple questions...First,ask indeed,WHY did they murder Him...?>..

And second,ask the Self - why did Christ say such thngs as - we must hate the parents..?...Or "damn the phairsees"..?..

We see very clearly,He is steering us away from that established organised religous traditon - He clearly wants us to have NOTHING to do with it at all...WHY..?..Same reason as they murdered Him - that god of the bible is not Our Father He taught us of,and so the modern bible,is simply not hIs truth at all,not to be trusted...For those with ears to hear...
 
Last edited:

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I thought I made it clear, but I don't exactly trust the texts you've cited here. I feel that the spirit of Christ's teachings ring obviously true, but the literal texts have to be taken with a grain of salt. I don't really "buy" Paul's "story", and, thus don't give Acts too much credence. Hell doesn't make sense with the spirit of the rest of Christ's teachings. And, much of the epistles are in the same boat. No surprise, as Paul never even met Jesus.

Then, do you mean you do Not give too much credence to the gospel account by the gospel writer Luke ?______
Since Luke wrote the Acts of the Apostles, then wouldn't your thinking about Acts also be a reflection of your thinking about Luke ?
According to Luke: Paul met the resurrected Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 9:11-15

According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ALL Scripture is to be taken as more than a grain of salt.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Then, do you mean you do Not give too much credence to the gospel account by the gospel writer Luke ?______
Since Luke wrote the Acts of the Apostles, then wouldn't your thinking about Acts also be a reflection of your thinking about Luke ?
According to Luke: Paul met the resurrected Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 9:11-15

According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ALL Scripture is to be taken as more than a grain of salt.
Wasn't Luke a compatriot of Paul? And, of course scripture is going to claim that ALL scripture is to be taken as the word of God. The same exact claim is made in pretty much all varieties of scripture.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Sometimes, it feels like he is glorifying himself more than Jesus. Has always bugged me.
And, everyone just took his word for it. But there is absolutely no reasoning as to why beyond things that he and his traveling companion could have dreamed up.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sometimes, it feels like he is glorifying himself more than Jesus. Has always bugged me.

Not sure what you have in mind considering Paul wrote that in showing honor take the lead - Romans 12:10

According to the account at 1 Corinthians 15:9-11 Paul remained humble.

When the congregation was split - Acts of the Apostles 14:26 to 15:2 - over circumcision and Paul's efforts did not clear up the issue, didn't Paul humbly go along with the decision or arrangements of the older men in Jerusalem ?_______

Paul co-operated fully with those spiritually older men - Acts of the Apostles 15:22-31 - and they assigned Paul and Barnabas.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Not sure what you have in mind considering Paul wrote that in showing honor take the lead - Romans 12:10

According to the account at 1 Corinthians 15:9-11 Paul remained humble.

When the congregation was split - Acts of the Apostles 14:26 to 15:2 - over circumcision and Paul's efforts did not clear up the issue, didn't Paul humbly go along with the decision or arrangements of the older men in Jerusalem ?_______

Paul co-operated fully with those spiritually older men - Acts of the Apostles 15:22-31 - and they assigned Paul and Barnabas.
Don't you find it suspicious that the book that glorifies Paul and treats him in the way you describe is the book that Paul had input in? I just don't trust Acts or the Letters of Paul, and I'm ssure that Deidre feels the same way. So, just out of curiosity, why do you keep on citing Letters of Paul and Acts, when we don't feel they are reliable in the first place?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Don't you find it suspicious that the book that glorifies Paul and treats him in the way you describe is the book that Paul had input in? I just don't trust Acts or the Letters of Paul, and I'm sure that Deidre feels the same way. So, just out of curiosity, why do you keep on citing Letters of Paul and Acts, when we don't feel they are reliable in the first place?

Whether one thinks reliable or not, I am just posting what the Bible really teaches. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Paul did Not put in or input Acts of the Apostles. That book was written by gospel writer Luke.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Wasn't Luke a compatriot of Paul? And, of course scripture is going to claim that ALL scripture is to be taken as the word of God. The same exact claim is made in pretty much all varieties of scripture.

I would think each would say or claim from God. Why would a person belong to a belief if they did Not think from God ?
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Whether one thinks reliable or not, I am just posting what the Bible really teaches. 2 Timothy 3:16-17
"Paul did Not put in or input Acts of the Apostles. That book was written by gospel writer Luke.
Although the name was quite a common one, ancient tradition has usually identified our Luke with the Luke whom the apostle Paul mentions twice. Paul is an important character in The Acts of the Apostles, and our writer does seem to have travelled with Paul on some of his missionary journeys." (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2008/dec/22/christianity-acts-apostles-luke)

For this reason, it can be easily assumed that Paul had every opportunity to contribute to the book, and made a point to make sure it mentioned him often and in a good light. Luke traveled with Paul and, apparently, looked up to him. So, to say that Paul didn't have input is extremely naiive. There is absolutely no reason to think that he didn't.
 
Top