• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I believe the majority of Genesis to be myth...
That does not mean it is not useful teaching material.
The argument that God did it. does not work for me, when comparing the inconsistencies.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
"People that read and understood the Bible" can claim whatever they like.....I don't have to believe them.

That's true, you can believe whomever you like. But you asked. Why on Earth do you think that your interpretation of a Bible written in English without a clue to the history of the book is better?

You don't "know" that there was no flood....you simply don't "believe" that there was one. You don't have enough evidence to convince you....but then you don't know God, or his capabilities, so how can you be so sure?

Nope, that is wrong. I can show you why we know that there was no flood.

We don't have all the details or any idea what species were on the ark. They were all land dwellers because marine creatures survived outside of it. All we know is that God chose the specimens and brought them to Noah.

We don't need to know how many creatures supposedly were on the mythical ark. When someone makes claims that tells us certain things that we should see if there claims were true. We do not see what we should see if the Ark claims were true.

The water came from the sky and from underground springs....40 days and nights of torrential rain, not in just a local area but all over the world. It covered the highest mountains with over 6 metres of water according to Genesis. Can a God who created the universe find it too difficult to do that?

Here are two claims of yours. If they are true then we can test them. The air can only hold a very limited amount of water. So when you say "sky" where did that water come from? When you say "the Earth" the Earth can hold only a limited amound of water, where in the Earth did it come from? General claims are worthless and self contradicting. You need more details than that. And please, let's not make any false claims about me. How many times are you going to claim magic happened whenever you are shown to be wrong, you still have an enormous problem when you do that.

What "population bottleneck" was going to challenge the Creator? Tell me please what limits you put on this being. Does he have the limits you are suggesting? I don't believe so. You can believe whatever you like.

You do not even know what one is. Your story tells us that these would be observable. Tell me, when did the magic end?

As the title suggests, this thread was created for Christians as a discussion, but atheists cannot resist wanting to throw in their 2cents worth, so it got moved. This is not where I wanted this thread to be...just so you know.

I knew that there was no flood when I was a Christian too. As do most Christians. Only a minority of Christians believe this myth. You should not conflate accepting reality with not being a Christian. You are insulting all of Christianity when you do that.

You've tried that on before. It was hogwash then...its still hogwash now.
I am a Christian and I am claiming that there was indeed a global deluge in which only 8 humans survived. Whatever else survived, was God's doing. However he repopulated the earth, was also his doing. He doesn't lie and neither do I.


Now now, don't tell falsehoods about others. That is both against the rules of the Bible and against the rules of the forum.

By the way, if you claim that your God does not lie then you are also claiming that there was no flood. All of the evidence out there tells us that there was no flood. If your God is real, and there was a flood then he had to plant the evidence that tells us that there was no flood. In other words you are claiming that God lied when you claim that the flood was real.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I believe the majority of Genesis to be myth...
That does not mean it is not useful teaching material.
The argument that God did it. does not work for me, when comparing the inconsistencies.

I think that most Christians share your beliefs. The Bible never claims to be perfect. It merely says that all of it is useful for instruction and your version of it keeps true to that verse. Claiming that it is literally true harms Christianity. As morality tales Genesis is still of use.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Actually probably not. Some bowling balls float and they would almost be certainly denser than the mud in a pool. Bowling balls that weigh less than 12 pounds float, those that weigh more sink, and the twelve pound balls are almost the exact same density as water:

Do bowling balls float?

Ok, the bowling ball wasn't a good example.

Still, to prevent the Ark from being stuck in the mud, Noah should have move the ark from dry land to body of water after building the ark, but BEFORE the Flood started.

The very idea of leaving the Ark on dry land, and wait for flood to come, is illogical, because it would be too late.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ok, the bowling ball wasn't a good example.

Still, to prevent the Ark from being stuck in the mud, Noah should have move the ark from dry land to body of water after building the ark, but BEFORE the Flood started.

The very idea of leaving the Ark on dry land, and wait for flood to come, is illogical, because it would be too late.
The whole story is illogical. I want Deeje to answer my question "When did the magic stop?"

Though I don't think she can get over the fact that since the evidence says there was no flood that would tell us that her God was lying if he claimed that there was a flood.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Deeje answered this well in another post. She wrote....
"It is my belief that the reason why the devil did not target the man is that Adam was more educated than his new wife and over a long period of time, had developed a closer relationship with his God. He would more likely have told the devil what Jesus did....."go away satan....this is what God said".....
The devil targeted the (inexperienced) woman to get to the man. His tactic was to divide and conquer....something tacticians still use because it is so successful. Satan made Adam choose between his love for God and his love for his wife. Divided loyalties are a trap."

(Comment in parentheses is mine.)





You should stop saying "naïve and gullible".... she was inexperienced, yes, but she never had a reason to distrust anyone or anything! And it wasn't 'gullibility'; the Devil presented her with the concept that she could gain more knowledge by eating that fruit. That she would gain something beneficial from it. It was a tempting proposition.

And this idea the Devil implanted in her mind (or I should say, made her think about), was actually another issue: Does Jehovah God withhold good things from His obedient creatures?
(He never does, although many think so. His laws on sex within marriage is just one good example!)

Basically here, you're saying 'it's God's fault.'
(Didn't you earlier identify yourself as a Methodist?...Maybe not.)
The Devil (slanderer), aka Satan (resister), wasn't made such. He was once a perfect creation, a spirit who was given - as are humans and all other intelligent creatures - free moral agency. God no more created him, "bad", than a mother gives birth to a criminal! Children aren't criminals at birth....but by making bad choices (again because of free moral agency), they make themselves criminals. The same with the Devil.

Take care.

Actually from everything you and others are writing, naive and gullible seem like the perfect words to use to describe Eve. People are naive and gullible because they are UNEDUCATED and INEXPERIENCED. You just posted how Eve was NOT EDUCATED enough and TOO INEXPERIENCED to know that she SHOULD have told the talking snake to "Go away Satan... this is what God said..."

"she never had a reason to distrust anyone or anything!" You can't BE more naive and gullible if you've never had reason to distrust anyone or anything. A person who doesn't even understand the concept of being lied to would be the MOST naive and gullible person around.

What is it that you think naive and gullible mean?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
That's true, you can believe whomever you like. But you asked. Why on Earth do you think that your interpretation of a Bible written in English without a clue to the history of the book is better?

Because I trust the one who authored it to preserve its contents down through thousands of years of time, just as he has done. The Bible is translated into many languages...English is just one of them. We have more than a clue as to the history of the book, but if you read that history from biased sources, you will never be told the truth. So at the end of the day, its not 'what' you are told, but 'who' told you. You select your own sources, and I select mine.....all will come out in the wash, won't it?

Nope, that is wrong. I can show you why we know that there was no flood.

No you can't. All you can show me is what you believe. No one alive today witnessed it and the only person who wrote about it was inspired by the one who sent it. I believe him. You can believe whoever you like.

We don't need to know how many creatures supposedly were on the mythical ark. When someone makes claims that tells us certain things that we should see if there claims were true. We do not see what we should see if the Ark claims were true.

Calling it mythical, doesn't make it so except in your own mind, but if you want it to be a myth, God will let you believe whatever you want. What should we see? Anything that God can't handle in his own unique way?
The laws that your "evidence" depends on were created by the one whose existence you deny. He doesn't have to abide by the laws he made for earth dwellers you know. Nor does he tell us all that he has done. The earth could not contain the volumes! :eek:

Here are two claims of yours. If they are true then we can test them. The air can only hold a very limited amount of water. So when you say "sky" where did that water come from? When you say "the Earth" the Earth can hold only a limited amound of water, where in the Earth did it come from?

Genesis speaks of a separation between the waters above the atmosphere and the waters below it. The apostle Peter makes reference to it in 2 Peter 3:3-7....
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”
5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people."


Jesus used the flood as an example of things to come and so did Peter. He said God used the water canopy which fell as rain....torrents of it. That volume of water along with the underground springs was enough to flood the whole world. (Genesis 7:11-12) He also said that the canopy was held in its place "by the word of God", so it needed no 'natural' laws to keep it there. Humans can speculate about that all they want...it alters nothing.

General claims are worthless and self contradicting. You need more details than that. And please, let's not make any false claims about me. How many times are you going to claim magic happened whenever you are shown to be wrong, you still have an enormous problem when you do that.

I have enough details to convince myself, thank you. There was no more "magic" than life springing into existence all by itself millions of years ago without a cause, according to the theory of evolution......when does your own "magic" get addressed?

You do not even know what one is. Your story tells us that these would be observable. Tell me, when did the magic end?

Since there was no "magic" to begin with, your question is moot. The whole scenario had a purpose and a lesson for future generations.
The "ridiculers" are all still with us, but not for much longer if world conditions are any indication. I believe that the Creator will then introduce himself so that will be no doubt about his existence. It will not be a pleasant encounter for the majority.

When the prophet Ezekiel was sent to the wicked ones of his generation he was told to say this message from God...."I will do with them in accordance with their course and judge them for their ways, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.’”

I believe the day is coming when we will see that situation again, only on a global scale, like the flood. A new start will then make the world a wonderful place to live because no one who denies God will be there. As Peter said in the scripture quoted above..."and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people."

The flood was a stop-gap measure for a world under the influence of the devil. Wickedness was accelerating too rapidly because of demonic activity, so God slowed it all down by starting again. The final judgment to come will see the "ungodly" vanish from existence. What does it mean to be "ungodly"?
According to Strongs "ungodly" (ä-se-bā's) means "destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious."
Who does that describe...every atheist?

I knew that there was no flood when I was a Christian too. As do most Christians. Only a minority of Christians believe this myth.

LOL..... those who doubt the word of God have a fat hide calling themselves "Christians" at all. That would be calling Jesus and his God liars.
You admit to being one of those then? No wonder you like to accuse others of doing this. :rolleyes:

In case you didn't realize it, Jesus said it was a minority who would be saved. (Matthew 7:13-14)
How many survived the flood? Its not a numbers game you know. (Matthew 24:37-39) There is no safety in numbers in this scenario.

You should not conflate accepting reality with not being a Christian. You are insulting all of Christianity when you do that.

You are insulting all genuine Christians by accusing them of not being as educated in science as you see yourself and others. Too bad that a scientific education is not a requirement for everlasting life. None of Jesus' 12 apostles were educated at the schools of higher learning like the Pharisees were.....I wonder why? Perhaps it is because of what Paul said....? "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." Jesus stressed "love" not an education in false beliefs.

if you claim that your God does not lie then you are also claiming that there was no flood. All of the evidence out there tells us that there was no flood. If your God is real, and there was a flood then he had to plant the evidence that tells us that there was no flood. In other words you are claiming that God lied when you claim that the flood was real.

You really like to play this card, don't you.....don't look now but its a joker.
171.gif


God requires faith....if it was all evidence, then faith would not be necessary.
You should understand this because you apparently accept evolution on a great deal of faith. You have what you call "evidence" but we all know that without faith in your science schools with their experiments and teachers, you'd have precious little at all. That "evidence" is interpreted by those with bias towards upholding their precious theory.....all presented as fact when there are no real facts at all. You have your own smoke and mirrors and your own belief system with no more real evidence than we do.

The end will be interesting....won't it?
128fs318181.gif
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Actually from everything you and others are writing, naive and gullible seem like the perfect words to use to describe Eve. People are naive and gullible because they are UNEDUCATED and INEXPERIENCED. You just posted how Eve was NOT EDUCATED enough and TOO INEXPERIENCED to know that she SHOULD have told the talking snake to "Go away Satan... this is what God said..."

Oh my goodness! She was young, so she was inexperienced in that regard; it was the only drawback to her perfect life....that’s why I mentioned it.
But before the first lie, Deception did not exist!! Do you get that? After the first occurrence, it became commonplace.
Your persistence in calling her naïve, is the same as saying Aristotle was “naïve” regarding airplanes! They also didn’t exist. Is that a flaw? No.

Are you aware that N. Korea has human colonies on Mars? No? Well, I think you’re naïve. Lol.

(“.....she SHOULD have told the talking snake to "Go away Satan... this is what God said..." “) From where do you get that she knew it was Satan? Being perfect, doesn’t mean having the ability to read minds.

"she never had a reason to distrust anyone or anything!" You can't BE more naive and gullible if you've never had reason to distrust anyone or anything. A person who doesn't even understand the concept of being lied to would be the MOST naive and gullible person around.

She never had a reason because..... lying......didn’t......exist!
It was Paradise.....nothing evil existed!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Because I trust the one who authored it to preserve its contents down through thousands of years of time, just as he has done. The Bible is translated into many languages...English is just one of them. We have more than a clue as to the history of the book, but if you read that history from biased sources, you will never be told the truth. So at the end of the day, its not 'what' you are told, but 'who' told you. You select your own sources, and I select mine.....all will come out in the wash, won't it?


It appears that you think that God wrote the Bible. It does not even make that claim for itself. And I have read the history from unbiased sources. You do realize to be unbiased that they cannot assume the myths of the Bible to be true ahead of time, don't you? If one makes that mistake their opinion of the Bible will be far from unbiased.

No you can't. All you can show me is what you believe. No one alive today witnessed it and the only person who wrote about it was inspired by the one who sent it. I believe him. You can believe whoever you like.

If you can think logically and reasonable I can. I cannot guarantee that you will do that. By the way, one does not have to witness an event to know if it happened or not. My conclusions are based upon evidence. Most creationists have no understanding of the concept of evidence.

Calling it mythical, doesn't make it so except in your own mind, but if you want it to be a myth, God will let you believe whatever you want. What should we see? Anything that God can't handle in his own unique way?
The laws that your "evidence" depends on were created by the one whose existence you deny. He doesn't have to abide by the laws he made for earth dwellers you know. Nor does he tell us all that he has done. The earth could not contain the volumes! :eek:

That is true. But then I can show it to be mythical. And if you want to claim that your God exists the burden of proof is upon you. It is becoming more and more obvious that you have no problem with a lying God.

Genesis speaks of a separation between the waters above the atmosphere and the waters below it. The apostle Peter makes reference to it in 2 Peter 3:3-7....
"First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”
5 For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people."


Jesus used the flood as an example of things to come and so did Peter. He said God used the water canopy which fell as rain....torrents of it. That volume of water along with the underground springs was enough to flood the whole world. (Genesis 7:11-12) He also said that the canopy was held in its place "by the word of God", so it needed no 'natural' laws to keep it there. Humans can speculate about that all they want...it alters nothing.

So now you are saying that God cooked Noah and the Ark. You do not appear to understand the laws of physics at all and the consequences of those laws. You do realize that there is no "firmament" nor is there any identifiable source of waters from the deep. Waving your hands and saying "magic" is rather pointless since instead of a worthless flood why did God simply not cause the evil people to die? Why did he kill innocents along with evil people? Now you are making your God out to be an insane murderer.


I have enough details to convince myself, thank you. There was no more "magic" than life springing into existence all by itself millions of years ago without a cause, according to the theory of evolution......when does your own "magic" get addressed?

No, you really don't. At best you can only m interpret evidence incorrectly. Once again understanding the nature of evidence would help with this bit of cognitive dissonance.

Since there was no "magic" to begin with, your question is moot. The whole scenario had a purpose and a lesson for future generations.
The "ridiculers" are all still with us, but not for much longer if world conditions are any indication. I believe that the Creator will then introduce himself so that will be no doubt about his existence. It will not be a pleasant encounter for the majority.

But you claim magic in almost every explanation that you use. The Bible is full of it.

When the prophet Ezekiel was sent to the wicked ones of his generation he was told to say this message from God...."I will do with them in accordance with their course and judge them for their ways, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.’”

I believe the day is coming when we will see that situation again, only on a global scale, like the flood. A new start will then make the world a wonderful place to live because no one who denies God will be there. As Peter said in the scripture quoted above..."and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people."

The flood was a stop-gap measure for a world under the influence of the devil. Wickedness was accelerating too rapidly because of demonic activity, so God slowed it all down by starting again. The final judgment to come will see the "ungodly" vanish from existence. What does it mean to be "ungodly"?
According to Strongs "ungodly" (ä-se-bā's) means "destitute of reverential awe towards God, condemning God, impious."
Who does that describe...every atheist?

No, atheists simply lack a belief in unsupported claims. If your God cannot make himself obviously real why should anyone believe in him? There is no more evidence for your God than there is for Allah, the Hindu Gods, the Greek Pantheon, or any other belief. It appears that your God is the problem.


LOL..... those who doubt the word of God have a fat hide calling themselves "Christians" at all. That would be calling Jesus and his God liars.
You admit to being one of those then? No wonder you like to accuse others of doing this. :rolleyes:

In case you didn't realize it, Jesus said it was a minority who would be saved. (Matthew 7:13-14)
How many survived the flood? Its not a numbers game you know. (Matthew 24:37-39) There is no safety in numbers in this scenario.

Nope, not even close. Jesus used allegory, parables, and other literary tools. His use of a saying that is on the same order as "she is as old as the hills" does not mean that he believed the flood myth. And if he did that only tells us that he was not divine or was a liar. This is not my claim, it is yours. Did you not understand the logic that leads to that conclusion?

You are insulting all genuine Christians by accusing them of not being as educated in science as you see yourself and others. Too bad that a scientific education is not a requirement for everlasting life. None of Jesus' 12 apostles were educated at the schools of higher learning like the Pharisees were.....I wonder why? Perhaps it is because of what Paul said....? "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up." Jesus stressed "love" not an education in false beliefs.

Hardly, if anything you are making it clear that you are not a "true Christian". A true Christian would follow the teachings of Christ and not worry so much about the myths of the Bible.

You really like to play this card, don't you.....don't look now but its a joker.
171.gif


God requires faith....if it was all evidence, then faith would not be necessary.
You should understand this because you apparently accept evolution on a great deal of faith. You have what you call "evidence" but we all know that without faith in your science schools with their experiments and teachers, you'd have precious little at all. That "evidence" is interpreted by those with bias towards upholding their precious theory.....all presented as fact when there are no real facts at all. You have your own smoke and mirrors and your own belief system with no more real evidence than we do.

The end will be interesting....won't it?
128fs318181.gif

Just because one cannot follow a logical argument does not refute it. I can help you with your inability to reason . But you probably need to learn some basics first. And no, there is no bias in the interpretation. That is what those on your side do. You see if one has a biased interpretation one will find that their interpretation runs into all sorts of self contradictions. That will not be found with a proper scientific explanation. You are guilty of the sins that you accuse others of.

If you can get over your fear I can help you. If your beliefs are true they should hold up to the concept of evidence. If your beliefs are wrong then evidence will contradict them. Do you wish to learn what is and what is not evidence?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Actually from everything you and others are writing, naive and gullible seem like the perfect words to use to describe Eve. People are naive and gullible because they are UNEDUCATED and INEXPERIENCED. You just posted how Eve was NOT EDUCATED enough and TOO INEXPERIENCED to know that she SHOULD have told the talking snake to "Go away Satan... this is what God said..."

"she never had a reason to distrust anyone or anything!" You can't BE more naive and gullible if you've never had reason to distrust anyone or anything. A person who doesn't even understand the concept of being lied to would be the MOST naive and gullible person around.

What is it that you think naive and gullible mean?

Eve couldn’t have known the serpent was not to be trusted, since she have no knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil.

The idea behind the Tree of Knowledge is that would have allow her to distinguish between good and bad, as well as between truth and lie. And she wouldn’t have that ability until she ate from the Tree of Knowledge.

I find it absurd that being gullible or naive to be fatal sin, as Christians like to think and to preach on the Original Sin.
 
Last edited:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Eve couldn’t have known the serpent was not to be trusted, since she have no knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil.

The idea behind the Tree of Knowledge is that would have allow her to distinguish between good and bad, as well as between truth and lie.

I find it absurd that being gullible or naive to be fatal sin, as Christians like to think and to preach on the Original Sin.
It is just a story, and the logical inconsistency of it shows that it is just a story.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Eve couldn’t have known the serpent was not to be trusted, since she have no knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil.
The idea behind the Tree of Knowledge is that would have allow her to distinguish between good and bad, as well as between truth and lie. And she wouldn’t have that ability until she ate from the Tree of Knowledge.
I find it absurd that being gullible or naive to be fatal sin, as Christians like to think and to preach on the Original Sin.

No where do I find that being gullible or naive to be a fatal sin because Adam was Not gullible Adam was Not naive,
so that is why the blame is placed (Not on Eve) but the blame on Adam as per 1 Timothy 2:14; Romans 5:12,19.

When you say Eve couldn't have known the serpent was not to be trusted, are you also saying Eve couldn't have known God was not to be trusted when God said they would die if they ate the forbidden fruit.
I find Eve knew that the 'bad' was death according to her own words at Genesis 3:3, so then Eve could distinguish what was bad. Sure she wouldn't taste death until she died, but since they knew what death was they did Not have to experience death to know what death was. Satan was calling God a liar by telling Eve she would Not die.
Satan was implying to Eve she would be better off, even be a 'goddess' in choosing for herself what was right and what was wrong. Eve concluded that it was Satan (Not God) who is the 'master of deception' as per Genesis 3:13.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Eve couldn’t have known the serpent was not to be trusted, since she have no knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil.

The idea behind the Tree of Knowledge is that would have allow her to distinguish between good and bad, as well as between truth and lie. And she wouldn’t have that ability until she ate from the Tree of Knowledge.

I find it absurd that being gullible or naive to be fatal sin, as Christians like to think and to preach on the Original Sin.


So very true. Apparently the ONLY way that Eve could have defended herself against the lying serpent was if she ate from the tree that God specifically forbade her from eating from. Sounds as if God set everything up to ensure that Eve would be deceived from the get go.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Oh my goodness! She was young, so she was inexperienced in that regard; it was the only drawback to her perfect life....that’s why I mentioned it.
But before the first lie, Deception did not exist!! Do you get that? After the first occurrence, it became commonplace.
Your persistence in calling her naïve, is the same as saying Aristotle was “naïve” regarding airplanes! They also didn’t exist. Is that a flaw? No.

Are you aware that N. Korea has human colonies on Mars? No? Well, I think you’re naïve. Lol.

(“.....she SHOULD have told the talking snake to "Go away Satan... this is what God said..." “) From where do you get that she knew it was Satan? Being perfect, doesn’t mean having the ability to read minds.



She never had a reason because..... lying......didn’t......exist!
It was Paradise.....nothing evil existed!


Oh my goodness! The fact that Eve was young, inexperienced, and uneducated is what MADE her naive and gullible. If she HAD more experience and WAS more educated about things like lies and deception, then she WOULD NOT have been so naive and gullible. It was this 'drawback' or FLAW that made it possible for her to be tricked into sinning.

"(“.....she SHOULD have told the talking snake to "Go away Satan... this is what God said..." “) From where do you get that... "

I got THAT from YOU when said when you claimed that if Adam had been approached by Satan that this is precisely what Adam would have said. So if Eve had wanted to AVOID committing sin then she SHOULD have said the exact same thing. Unfortunately poor Eve was far too naive and gullible to know that this is what she SHOULD have done, which DEFINITELY sounds like a major FLAW, IF in fact God didn't want Eve to sin. If I was God and I wanted to create a being that wouldn't sin then I would have educated Eve AS WELL, so that she would have ALSO known to say: "Go away Satan... this is what God said..." You claim that I had done so with Adam so clearly I could have done so with Eve as well, if I'd so desired. But for SOME reason, the God of the bible wanted to keep her naive and gullible enough to get fooled by the serpent he created and allowed into Eden.
 
Last edited:

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Oh my goodness! The fact that Eve was young, inexperienced, and uneducated is what MADE her naive and gullible. If she HAD more experience and WAS more educated about things like lies and deception, then she WOULD NOT have been so naive and gullible. It was this 'drawback' or FLAW that made it possible for her to be tricked into sinning.

"(“.....she SHOULD have told the talking snake to "Go away Satan... this is what God said..." “) From where do you get that... "

I got THAT from YOU when said when you claimed that if Adam had been approached by Satan that this is precisely what Adam would have said. So if Eve had wanted to AVOID committing sin then she SHOULD have said the exact same thing. Unfortunately poor Eve was far too naive and gullible to know that this is what she SHOULD have done, which DEFINITELY sounds like a major FLAW, IF in fact God didn't want Eve to sin. If I was God and I wanted to create a being that wouldn't sin then I would have educated Eve AS WELL, so that she would have ALSO known to say: "Go away Satan... this is what God said..." You claim that I had done so with Adam so clearly I could have done so with Eve as well, if I'd so desired. But for SOME reason, the God of the bible wanted to keep her naive and gullible enough to get fooled by the serpent he created and allowed into Eden.
Lol.
What’s your motive in asking these questions? Obviously, you don’t want the answers.

I guess you think you’re more astute than Newton or Boyle.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Lol.
What’s your motive in asking these questions? Obviously, you don’t want the answers.

I guess you think you’re more astute than Newton or Boyle.

My motive is to point out the absurdity of the answers you've given. Like your silly claim that Eve was INEXPERIENCED and UNEDUCATED, but was at the same time not naive or gullible. When everyone knows that what makes a person naive is a LACK of experience or education. And what makes someone gullible is a LACK of experience with people lying to them and a LACK of education about how there are people out there who will try to lie to them.

As for Newton and Boyle I'm certain that there are MANY things that they were far more astute about than I am. On the other hand, I'm certain that there are things that I am far more astute about than they ever were.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Lol.
What’s your motive in asking these questions? Obviously, you don’t want the answers.

I guess you think you’re more astute than Newton or Boyle.

This is an all or nothing approach to the intelligence of others. That Newton and Boyle did not know certain facts that we know now does not make us brighter than they were.

Hand Newton a phone and he would be without a clue, yet a twelve year old can use them better than most adults. That Newton did not know we are evolved beings does not make him a fool. The science had not been developed in his time.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
My motive is to point out the absurdity of the answers you've given. Like your silly claim that Eve was INEXPERIENCED and UNEDUCATED, but was at the same time not naive or gullible. When everyone knows that what makes a person naive is a LACK of experience or education. And what makes someone gullible is a LACK of experience with people lying to them and a LACK of education about how there are people out there who will try to lie to them.

As for Newton and Boyle I'm certain that there are MANY things that they were far more astute about than I am. On the other hand, I'm certain that there are things that I am far more astute about than they ever were.
Have you ‘studied the Bible daily’?

Newton did, in fact he wrote more about the Bible than science!

Don’t you think he would’ve discovered these “absurdities” in the account, if they in fact were?

Or could it be that you simply don’t understand the facts given? It’s either that, or Newton didnt understand a subject he ‘studied daily.’
 
Top