For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[URAVIP2ME]

That was a dodge and indicates that you are afraid to answer a reasonable question.
Can you p!ease try again and answer the question?

The 'substance' of the first ten commandments is found in chapter 19 of Leviticus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The 'substance' of the first ten commandments is found in chapter 19 of Leviticus.

Are you sure about that? Does it follow the standards I gave? Or don't you like the standards? Once again, carved in stone, given to Moses, called the Ten Commandments in the Bible. Since we are discussing the Ten Commandments I thought a reasonable definition was a good starting point.

That is the second time you dodged that question.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Are you sure about that? Does it follow the standards I gave? Or don't you like the standards? Once again, carved in stone, given to Moses, called the Ten Commandments in the Bible. Since we are discussing the Ten Commandments I thought a reasonable definition was a good starting point.
That is the second time you dodged that question.

As I mentioned, the substance (definition) of the first 10 (of over 600 plus laws) is found in chapter 19 of Leviticus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I mentioned, the substance (definition) of the first 10 (of over 600 plus laws) is found in chapter 19 of Leviticus.

So you know that you are wrong. You just don't know why.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It almost makes me physically ill to see people defend slavery like this. All because you have to make some old book make some kind of sense about things that are so obviously wrong and immoral.

Deeje seems to think this is funny. I think it's repugnant.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, you don't get it.

What I "appear to be saying"? Why not just state, "What youre saying is....."?

I want to make sure you were saying what I thought you were saying. I don't like to put words in peoples' mouths.

"First of all, people who don't believe in God(s) couldn't possibly wish to remove him/them from their 'rightful position as Creator" because they don't believe God(s) exist in the first place and therefore wouldn't hold any position anywhere."

Where did I say anything about that? Beliefs don't change, one iota, what reality is.
Beliefs only affect motivations behind actions -- and, vice versa, at times.
What people want to believe, and what people want to do.

You can assert that God exists all you want. But for people who don't believe the God you worship actually exists, then they would have no reason to remove said god from it's "rightful position as creator" obviously because they don't think your God holds that position in the first place.

Most today don't want to believe it, but the Bible is about the only book that provides excellent counsel on controlling our sexual desires....this benefits society in the long run: it cuts down on diseases, and helps to build strong families.

You don't read a lot of books, do you?

There are so many lines of evidence that the Bible comes from a divine source! I'm just glad I (and others on here) appreciate it.

I need a good reason to believe that. So far in my life, I haven't seen one. Just people making assertions.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'll be sure to pass that memo along.....

I am sure that he is just waiting to hear your opinion about how moral people are today....

No need. If he's there, he knows how I feel about it.

The sad part is you're still here proudly defending immoral acts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So you're saying you should decide what's right and wrong based off your own opinion. Who decides though between two people which opinion is right when there is disagreement?

To cut to the chase. It's nonsensical (in that case) to judge God of wrong doing when (hypothetically) God's viewpoint is just as valid as your own. If not more so.

Who decides which Christian opinion is the right one?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who decides which Christian opinion is the right one?

There is a thread on understanding the Bible and I asked a similar question. What independent, verifiable test can be made of interpretations of the Bible. There was no answer that did not fail those simple and reasonable standards.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Oh yeah, you're the one who asked for evidence indicating that you wish to remove Jehovah from his position as Creator....you really think that is worth a reply? I didn't. The evidence is obvious....it's all throughout your posts, for anyone to read. Be assured, Jehovah's seen it, too.

And then there's your little twist to my words where i say that we as JW's refuse to acknowledge any science that refuses to recognize Jehovah's Godship. But you ask, 'what sciences acknowledge Jehovah's Godship?

If you can't figure out what I meant...then it's a fruitless endeavor to continue discussion with you.

Do you see any supporters of the Creator taking issue with astronomy, or geology, or medicine, or archeology? No...these science branches dont specifically deny God in these aspects. In fact, I enjoy all four of these fields...and other fields, too.

But CD evultion specifically denies Jehovah.
Do you get it now?

I will not be replying to your posts on this thread anymore... As I stated, this was off-topic to the thread's subject.

"Walk away"....LOL!

None of them do.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think maybe He has, too... "Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger... But become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving one another" (Ephesians 4:31-32); "With all humility, consider others as superior to you" (Philippians 2:3); "Continue loving your enemies" (Matthew 5:44). Well whaddya know!

You're joking, right?

Where in the Bible does God say "Guess what .... I was wrong about that slavery stuff. It's immoral to own human beings as property now." ?

 

[SkepticThinker]

It is my belief that you are given that right to decide as you wish.....for now.
It is the exercise of free will that got us into this mess. Humans are lousy at deciding what is right or wrong for themselves.



Its an interesting faculty, conscience....it arises out of an inbuilt sense of right and wrong. How did humans get to know what is right or wrong? Who told us? Why do we alone possess a sense of morality? It is fair to say that I have never seen any other species exercise this faculty like we do. How do you explain it?

How do you explain our unique ability to write music and make and play an infinite variety of musical instruments?
How come we can communicate with our voice, our body language and the written word.....who thought up the alphabet? We can also communicate visually via the internet. We just evolved that sort of intelligence?

What place does poetry or theater have in any survival advantage for us? It is so amazing to me that the most obvious thing in the world is that humans are unique in so many ways....no animals comes close to exercising our abilities and to demonstrating how we use our intellect to foresee the future and consciously plan for it......all these 'accidents of nature' look planned to me.

As for the God of the Bible...if you knew what you are talking about, you would see he doesn't really change at all when it comes to exercising his justice.

“It is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8)

The end times will see a demonstration of God's power, the likes of which have never been witnessed before.

You ain't seen nothing yet....

No one will be able to say we didn't try to warn you.



Oh, the old 'slavery and rape' chestnut?

Different times, different cultures and a completely different set of circumstances.....nothing that is seen today or even in Jesus' day....so what is your gripe. Is there some teaching of Jesus Christ that says its OK to exploit your fellow man/woman in any way? We are told to even 'love our enemies'......seriously. Where do humans get off thinking that can judge the one who gave them their sensibilities in the first place?

We don't. Morality can be found elsewhere in the animal kingdom. This has been pointed out to you before. Chimps display a sense of morality. Dogs display a sense of morality. They're just different from one another and from ours. That's just two examples. You really need to do some more reading and research about the world you live in.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There is a thread on understanding the Bible and I asked a similar question. What independent, verifiable test can be made of interpretations of the Bible. There was no answer that did not fail those simple and reasonable standards.

So religion doesn't solve the problem either. Hmmm

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hilarious! You get to dictate morality to the one who gave you that faculty in the first place?

Obviously I don't believe any God(s) gave me faculty. But if I see my mother acting immorallly, I may point it out. And if I see a bunch of people defending immoral actions in the name of some God, I'm going to point it out. You are defending slavery here, for Pete's sake.

The most moral Being in existence gets to answer to those who are by comparison, on the level of an amoeba. Yep.

From where I sit, your God is not the most moral being in existence. Far from it. Your assertions and defense of repugnant actions aren't getting me anywhere closer to that belief.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Man's deluded into thinking that he will decide for himself. Remember it wasn't Adam's idea but the serpent manipulated him. So even now satan who is an angel is stronger than man. (2 Peter 2:11) And may always prevail over men. God's Law is freedom because it is stronger than satan.

Why doesn't God destroy Satan? Why is he allowed to exercise so much power? Is he more powerful than God?

 

[Deeje]

From where I sit, your God is not the most moral being in existence. Far from it. Your assertions and defense of repugnant actions aren't getting me anywhere closer to that belief.

It is none of my business what you choose to believe ST.

I read scripture such as Leviticus 21 and God's laws governing slavery (a common practice of the era) and I see nothing there that paints a grim picture of an immoral God....quite the opposite in fact.

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he will serve as a slave for six years, but in the seventh year, he will be set free without paying anything."

If a man got himself into debt in Israel he could sell himself into service to pay the debt. (more like an employee working off the amount owed) The maximum amount of time served no matter how big the debt, was only six years. If in that time he was given a wife by his master and they had children, then the slave could opt to stay and serve his master for life with his family. They were given somewhere to live, had food in their bellies and lived like any employee does today....mindful that if they don't do what they are paid to do, they will lose their job.

"If anyone kidnaps a man and sells him or is caught holding him, he must be put to death."

That rules out Israelites purposely kidnapping slaves.

Why doesn't God destroy Satan? Why is he allowed to exercise so much power? Is he more powerful than God?

He is using him first to test us all out. How are we all going with that I wonder?

 

[74x12]

Who decides which Christian opinion is the right one?

Isn't it obvious? God. If the Lord is our Shepherd then why do sheep ask sheep? Why aren't they asking the Shepherd?

Why doesn't God destroy Satan? Why is he allowed to exercise so much power? Is he more powerful than God?

No. He is allowed to exercise so much power because people invite him to do so. It's just like demonic possession(which is real) the possessed person allowed or was opened up somehow to the demon. The world is the same. The world has need of deliverance from evil. The good news is that through choosing good and loving one another we constrain satan and make it harder for him. God does not destroy satan (yet) because God goes by rules. Satan will be destroyed when his time comes. However for now God leaves him alone to see what we do about it. Whether we will choose good or evil. We know when we're being kind or selfish. We know the basics of good and evil.

 

[Deeje]

We don't. Morality can be found elsewhere in the animal kingdom. This has been pointed out to you before. Chimps display a sense of morality.

In what way can chimps be considered capable of of morality? Examples please.

Dogs display a sense of morality. They're just different from one another and from ours. That's just two examples. You really need to do some more reading and research about the world you live in.

I have bred dogs for years....I have not seen this moral sense that you claim. If I feed my dogs together, I never see one standing back so the other guy can have his dinner. I don't see the runt in a litter being given consideration when pups are in for a feed. Dogs and chimps will do in public what no human would do. Give us an example of this morality in animals....

"Morality is the differentiation of intentions, decisions and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper." Wikipedia

Tell me how an animal differentiates between right and wrong? How does an animals make decisions about morality? Research and life experience tells me that you have no grounds for that general assertion.

 

[Muffled]

Then you are rather ignorant. The evidence is rather clear. Why do you think I would make anything up?

The Moses story relies upon the Exodus myth. The Exodus myth as on the order of two million people leaving Egypt. And wandering for forty years without a clue in desert that shows no sign at all of their presence. When one can find clear evidence of much smaller tribes that tells us that we should find evidence for an immense tribe. A lack of evidence can be evidence against an event if evidence is expected and it is expected that 2 million people would leave a mark somewhere.

Here is a nice starting article on the myth:

The Exodus - Wikipedia

I believe there is no evidence that the Exodus is a myth. Remember Wikipedia is just information supplied by people who have their own opinions.

 

[Muffled]

That is quite a few million years in the future. Of course that depends upon how one defines "the end of the world as we know it".

I believe I expect the poles to change, continents to submerge and others rise. Deserts will become jungles and jungles deserts.

I believe you are talking about the extinguishing of the earth and Jesus said that He won't even be around to experience it.