Renji
Well-Known Member
Ok, so when do you say that Christ is within you?
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Ok, so when do you say that Christ is within you?
Free4all
It's all about the blood
Matthew 26:27 is talking about the second coming and that is a different dispensation, salvation does involve works then (which is future), as always when the Lord is dealing with Israel. At present we are in the church age and salvation is by grace thru faith and no works connected to it.
Jesus half-brother James (2:17-19) wrote: faith without works is dead.
The form (works) of religion that is pure and undefiled is to take care of orphans, widows and to keep oneself without spot from the world.- James 1:27.
Didn't Jesus also emphasize at Matthew 7:21 always, not just future, doing of the will of his Father as important work?
Isn't Matthew 24:14 part of God's will the on-going work of proclaiming of the good news of God's kingdom on a global scale until the end of all badness on earth comes?
RE: Matthew 26:27 When Jesus comes in his glory with his angels is described at Revelation 19:11,14,15; Isaiah 11:4 is when the Lord is dealing with all nations.
Just as when Jesus ( in his glory) and as the Shepherd will separate sheep from goats as Matthew 25:31,32 says: 'all nations'.
The form (works) of religion that is pure and undefiled is to take care of orphans, widows and to keep oneself without spot from the world.- James 1:27.
Didn't Jesus also emphasize at Matthew 7:21 always, not just future, doing of the will of his Father as important work?
Isn't Matthew 24:14 part of God's will the on-going work of proclaiming of the good news of God's kingdom on a global scale until the end of all badness on earth comes?
RE: Matthew 26:27 When Jesus comes in his glory with his angels is described at Revelation 19:11,14,15; Isaiah 11:4 is when the Lord is dealing with all nations.
Just as when Jesus ( in his glory) and as the Shepherd will separate sheep from goats as Matthew 25:31,32 says: 'all nations'.
Ba'al
Active Member
It is just the book Revelation John is referring to and it's because so many scribes were changing scripture that John thought it necessary to add that statement. Many of the changes were merely mistakes that come from copying. Some changes were made because the scribe couldn't read or make out certain words so they wrote what they thought it said or meant. Other scribes made intentional changes to push their theological beliefs. In the 18th century John Mill spent 30 years translating 100 of the earliest manuscripts of the New Testament. He found there were 30 000 different variations in the manuscripts. Nowadays we have about 5000 early manuscripts and even with computers they still don't know how many variations because they are so numerous. But, they know there are more variations in those manuscripts than words in the New Testament. So even if you believe that the bible is God's word, He certainly hasn't preserved it.
God has preserved all of the books that he wants to be part of the 'all Scripture inspired by God' as 2nd Timothy 3:16,17 says.
The Bible was written on fragile paper and even though it was there has been no enemy over the centuries that has been able to get rid of it . Whether or not that enemy is from without or from within the religious realm.
Not only did Jesus never once say he was God, none of his enemies or followers said that either.
The Bible was written on fragile paper and even though it was there has been no enemy over the centuries that has been able to get rid of it . Whether or not that enemy is from without or from within the religious realm.
Not only did Jesus never once say he was God, none of his enemies or followers said that either.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Kathryn,
You are right about man not being able to earn salvation. That does not mean that a person should not try, by doing good works, Eph 2:8-10, 1Tim 4:16.
Many people claim to be Christians, but Jesus said that onle those doing the will of God will be saved, Matt 7:21-23.
To be in a saved condition, promerit, you must be Declared Righteous by God, and this is an Undeserved Kindness, Grace, Rom 3:21-24. As it is said here, the only way to be declared righteous is by having faith in the Ransom Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Gal 2:16.
Consider a principle; A father tells his son that if he does something difficult, the father will buy him something for a reward. The son tries very hard to accomplish what the father said. The father sees that his son is trying very hard, so he tells him that he will give him the gift, even though the son could not attain to it.
This is exactly where we are today. We cannot attain salvation because the price is too high, Ps 49:6-10. The wages sin pays is death, Rom 6:23, and we all all sinners, 1John 1:8-10. Jesus gave his life for us so that we can be declared righteous, and God does not charge our sins against us, Heb 10:14-18, but puts Jesus Ransom Sacrifice between us and our sins, The Propitiatory Sacrifice, 1John 2:1,2, Gal 3:10-14, Matt 20:28.
The Bible tells us that there is no salvation in anyone but Jesus, Acts 4:12.
The Bible is also very clear that we will be judged by our actions, whether good or bad, Rom 2:6-11, James 2:14-18, 22, 23-26.
Over and over again we are told that Christians do good works, Titus 2:13,14, 3:1, 3:14, Gal 6:10, Eph 2:10. Consider 1Cor 3:8,9, which tells us we will receive a reward according to our work, and verse 9 tells that Christians are GOD' FELLOW WORKERS. God is always working, so is Jesus and so are true Christians, John 5:16,17. The whole reason for Christianity is to learn about God and His purposes, then teach others, so they can also be saved, 1Tim 4:16, 2Tim 2:1,2, 4:2-5, Matt 28:19,20.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Greetings!
As a Baha'i (and hence a Christian by any broad definition), I would point out that the Fruits of the Spirit are listed in Galatians, and that any true religion will cause the adherent to exhibit these!
Whether or not they manifest in me is not for me to say, but I hope and pray that they do!
Best!
Bruce
As a Baha'i (and hence a Christian by any broad definition), I would point out that the Fruits of the Spirit are listed in Galatians, and that any true religion will cause the adherent to exhibit these!
Whether or not they manifest in me is not for me to say, but I hope and pray that they do!
Best!
Bruce
prewrathrapturist
Berean
Respectfully Bruce, Baha'i has no association with Christianity by ANY definition... broad or narrow sir.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Only in your slightly biased opinion.
Baha'is have brought literally millions of non-Christians world wide to recognition and love of Christ AND the Bible AND Christianity, little as you know it!
Peace,
Bruce
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prewrathrapturist
Berean
I can lead a horse to water but that doesn't make me a horse.
Enough on this one Bruce...
Respectfully...
Enough on this one Bruce...
Respectfully...
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
YOU are in no position to tell me to stop posting, the more so given that the error was on YOUR part!
Nor does adding "respectfully" to your presumption in any way soften your tone.
There are literally tens of thousands of Christian groups out there, by which I mean groups which revere and respect Christ (as do we)! The fact that not all of them think exactly like you is hardly grounds for condemning them.
Peace,
Bruce
prewrathrapturist
Berean
You may post all you want Bruce. I have made a point that as you consider Baha'i a version of Christianity that the Baha'i by any definition cannot place themselves under the banner of Christianity. I am not debating this...orthodoxy speaks for itself.
Carry on Bruce...
Ba'al
Active Member
The type of christianity you follow prewrathrapturist is only "orthodox" because that type was forced on other christians and non-christians by the early church. Constantine played a large role in that. There were hundreds if not thousands of different christian beliefs but they were labeled as heretics. If the religious politics of that time were any different your "orthodox" christianity that you follow would be heretical and something you would regard as heretical would be "orthodox". "Orthodox" just means "having the right opinion" but we all know the winners of history are never going to label themselves as being wrong. Hence, the winners are always "orthodox" no matter what they believe. Prewrathrapturist, it is exactly your line of thought that has created such a division among christians rather than unity as Jesus would have wanted.
prewrathrapturist
Berean
Ba'al,
If you choose to include the Baha'i faith into your definition of Christian unity be my guest. Such an inclusion would make the church fathers twist and turn upside down in their graves.
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Save that "orthodoxy" depends on who's speaking!
As I already pointed out, there are literally tens of thousands of groups who accept and revere Christ, and nobody appointed YOU to set up your parochial definition to decide who is and isn't Christian! I see that others here also reject your overly narrow viewpoint.
You also overlook the fact that EVERY Baha'i world wide accepts Christ, and indeed can't be a Baha'i without doing so!
The Faith and its scriptures and teachings stand on their own merit--and don't rely on you or anybody else for their legitimacy.
Peace,
Bruce
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jtartar
Well-Known Member
Lawrence,
I could give you a very long answer, but all can be summed up in a few words.
Jesus said that all would know his disciples by the love that they show, John 13:34,35, Matt 7:12, 22:34-40,Rom 13:8-10.
A true Christian MUST be no part of this world, John 15:17-21, 18:36,37, James 4:4. A true Christian expects to be persecuted and looked down on, as did the master, Jesus, Luke 6:22,23,26, 2Tim 3:12.
Notice that true Christians will be hated by every nation on earth, Matt 24:9.
How many people who claim to be Christian are being persecuted in the United States, Matt 7:15,20, 21-23, Titus 1:15,16.
Ba'al
Active Member
Ba'al,
If you choose to include the Baha'i faith into your definition of Christian unity be my guest. Such an inclusion would make the church fathers twist and turn upside down in their graves.
These church fathers themselves are guilty of twisting and turning upside down Jesus' message.
Jesus had the same problem with the 'religious fathers' of his day because Jesus pronounced many 'woes' against them and his reasons why in the 23rd chapter of Matthew.
Luke (Acts 20:29,30) forewarned us that after the apostles were gone that wolves in sheep's clothing, so to speak, would enter in among the congregations. Jesus told that would be true for our day at Matthew 24:24.
The clerical man of sin will be revealed who sits himself in the temple or House of Worship showing himself to be anti-God. - 2nd Thess 2:3-10
How can people be taken up bodily when 1st Cor 15:50 plainly states that flesh and blood can Not inherit the Kingdom of God?______________________________