For everyone - 'The BIG PICTURE'.

[dybmh]

As to the bigger picture, personally I see it grows from what it is to be a member of a family. For a family unit to work one must be a useful part of the family, doing the tasks needed to be done and not become a servant to only ones own self.

Thus I see we are the family of man, each nation a part of that family, each community in those nations giving diversity to the family unit.

I see we can no longer become selfish and not work for the whole family unit. That does require a certain level of sacrifice of ones own desires.

Family Unit:

Respectfully, I think a cooperative system modeled after a Family is a very very bad idea.

• Nepotism
• Minority opinion is under valued
• Seniority is over valued
• No balance of powers
• No term limits

And, I would be concerned that the leader would not apply simple "do no harm" ethics in favor of following their chosen God(s), religious beliefs, material gain, lust for power.

Sacrifice of ones own desires:

Respectfully, I think there is potentially a double standard applied regarding sacrifice of ones own desires. The double standard is introduced when one person or group feels that their desires reflect the desire of their chosen God(s), religious beliefs, material gain, lust for power.

As an example: I believe that Gay and Trans people should have all the same civic freedoms and opportunities as people who are not Gay or Trans. Would you sacrifice your own desire to implement God's universal law in order to enter into a cooperative Family unit with me?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If ever there were universal peace it would happen gradually, and it would be a painfully slow process.

That is part of what I see as the big picture. It has been said as we rejected our common foundation that mankinds perversity will long continue, but the Most Great Peace will come.

To that I have no doubt.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Family Unit:

Respectfully, I think a cooperative system modeled after a Family is a very very bad idea.

• Nepotism
• Minority opinion is under valued
• Seniority is over valued
• No balance of powers
• No term limits

And, I would be concerned that the leader would not apply simple "do no harm" ethics in favor of following their chosen God(s), religious beliefs, material gain, lust for power.

Sacrifice of ones own desires:

Respectfully, I think there is potentially a double standard applied regarding sacrifice of ones own desires. The double standard is introduced when one person or group feels that their desires reflect the desire of their chosen God(s), religious beliefs, material gain, lust for power.

As an example: I believe that Gay and Trans people should have all the same civic freedoms and opportunities as people who are not Gay or Trans. Would you sacrifice your own desire to implement God's universal law in order to enter into a cooperative Family unit with me?

Another thoughtful post, it is good to clarify what I see as the big picture, as I hold great optimistic views on our ability to pursue all that is required to find unity.

I see you idea has foundation, but I see that view is still based on old ways of thinking. Thus when I quote a family unit is is also based in a different frame of reference, where the family unit functions as a unified organic body.

As you are aware my big picture is drawn by Baha'u'llah. That vision has removed the function of the power of one over others. Each at maturity now makes their own path in life and can only become a guide unto others, not a total authority. Authority comes about by consultation, agreement on what will be the basic rules of the Family unit and the consequences of neglecting those rules.

There is no nepotisim, Children have ability of input and they are valued, Senior authority is earned and thus respected, that authoriry has been given its parameters of ultimate power and also its set limitations, but for society to work it is needed.

Power is used with wisdom and there is always a set term. Children mature and as such, become a person that can earn respect for when they have to guide a family.

In the system I see unfolding, there is no lust for power, as no one has ambition to be a leader and dominate thought. The way people are elected is on merit and virtues and not canvasing for votes. There is no system at the moment adopted by any Nation that is not flawed in some way.

I see the governments will agree on a system that works for all.

Your posts have many possibilities to discuss.

Regards Tony

 

[siti]

I hold great optimistic views on our ability to pursue all that is required to find unity.

It sounds nice Tony - but honestly, and hoping that I am not overstepping the bounds here - this not being a debate forum - there are a few issues that the Baha'i religion would have to address before you can reasonably make the claims you are making...some examples:

Each at maturity now makes their own path in life and can only become a guide unto others...

...unless they happen to be gay (for example)?

There is no nepotisim...

...and yet not only was your "big picture"

...drawn by Baha'u'llah...

...but so were the rules of succession of leadership of your religion - his son, then his grandson - and then - oops - Shoghi Effendi dies childless...otherwise your religion would have continued to be led by descendants of Baha'u'llah - right?

...no one has ambition to be a leader and dominate thought...

...except Baha'u'llah and his descendants (at least).

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It sounds nice Tony - but honestly, and hoping that I am not overstepping the bounds here - this not being a debate forum - there are a few issues that the Baha'i religion would have to address before you can reasonably make the claims you are making...some examples:

...unless they happen to be gay (for example)?

...and yet not only was your "big picture" ...but so were the rules of succession of leadership of your religion - his son, then his grandson - and then - oops - Shoghi Effendi dies childless...otherwise your religion would have continued to be led by descendants of Baha'u'llah - right?

...except Baha'u'llah and his descendants (at least).

Hi Siti, thank you for your clarity on my world view.

There is a bigger picture to what you have put forward, your views of that picture, do not align to what I have accepted and what will most likely unfold.

I will see if time allows to adress more later.

To clarify leadership, Baha'u'llah requires none of us to accept what He offered, there is no leadership. Baha'u'llah has stated that if that was His wish, then one word from Him and it would be so.

What is offerrd, is full hearted submission to a knowledge greater than ours, a knowledge that can guide us unto all good.

No one has to be a Baha'i, no one has to accept any Faith.

There is no compulsion in religion.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It sounds nice Tony - but honestly, and hoping that I am not overstepping the bounds here - this not being a debate forum - there are a few issues that the Baha'i religion would have to address before you can reasonably make the claims you are making...some examples

Not at all Siti, but remember it is my adopted big picture. You do not have to and never have to, adopt what I have.

In my big picture I see people will make it their own choice. How people will adopt new frames of reference is unknown by me, but I see it is not unknown by God and the promise will be fulfilled...when?

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

How will humanity as a whole embrace this caring attitude? ..
The Most Great Peace will be this knowledge.We will understand that the rainbow is refracted white light.

Simple. By accepting Bahaullah as the manifestation of God and by replacing Torah, Bible and Quran with what he wrote. None other than Bahais have this caring attitude! None other than Bahais know the 'Most Great Peace'! None other than Bahais have seen the the rainbow in the refraction of white light! Why do you beat around the bush?

Of course that has a greater complexity we must all sort out.

And how do you propose to sort this out?

Baha'u'llah has stated that if that was His wish, then one word from Him and it would be so.

Ah really! Was he of sound mind and was he dealing to people of sound mind? Then why did not he do it? One God itself means one leadership. You are not corresponding with the stone-age aboriginals of Aladima Island who are encountering civilization for the first time. We too have brains and understand things. You and your Bahaullah are greatly funny, sugar-coated silliness, if I may say so..

 

[siti]

How people will adopt new frames of reference is unknown by me, but I see it is not unknown by God

This is another example of a rather annoying trait on RF recently (if I may say so)...

God knows how you can presume to know what God knows if God knows what you don't - I don't know!!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Simple. By accepting Bahaullah as the manifestation of God and by replacing Torah, Bible and Quran with what he wrote. None other than Bahais have this caring attitude! None other than Bahais know the 'Most Great Peace'! None other than Bahais have seen the the rainbow in the refraction of white light! Why do you beat around the bush? And how do you propose to sort this out?Ah really! Was he of sound mind and was he dealing to people of sound mind? Then why did not he do it? One God itself means one leadership. You are not corresponding with the stone-age aboriginals of Aladima Island. Even they would br smarter than this. We too have brains and understand things. You and your Bahaullah are greatly funny.

Your Picasso is not my preference for fine art.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Neither your "Bhimbekta" is good enough for me.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The question is simple, what do you see as 'The Big Picture, either based in your thoughts gained from your Faith, or if you have no Faith, thoughts of what man can achieve.

I will post what I see in the future that will most likely unfold from what I understand in the Baha'i Faith as the OP progresses.

It will be great to see what visions or thoughts people have of the future to come.

Regards Tony

Here is the "Big Picture."

God created, and is still creating, the world.

We are separating from nature, becoming something more. This often puts out conscience at odds with our animal instincts, placing us in a state of disharmony.

God has revealed to us expectations for human ethics and mores, and despite the fact that our biology, epigenetics, upbringing, traumas, etc., all play such a great role in determining our choices, we are nevertheless responsible for what we decide to do.

God is not merely an almighty King of the Universe, but also a loving Father, which means he incorporates both justice and mercy, which is where we learn justice and mercy from. Justice and mercy (empathy) are the foundation of our sense of morality.

God accepts us as we are, but calls us to something higher. In the same regard, we are to love the world as it is, but work towards making it a better, more heavenly place, healing it.

When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole of man.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Here is the "Big Picture."

God created, and is still creating, the world.

We are separating from nature, becoming something more. This often puts out conscience at odds with our animal instincts, placing us in a state of disharmony.

God has revealed to us expectations for human ethics and mores, and despite the fact that our biology, epigenetics, upbringing, traumas, etc., all play such a great role in determining our choices, we are nevertheless responsible for what we decide to do.

God is not merely an almighty King of the Universe, but also a loving Father, which means he incorporates both justice and mercy, which is where we learn justice and mercy from. Justice and mercy (empathy) are the foundation of our sense of morality.

God accepts us as we are, but calls us to something higher. In the same regard, we are to love the world as it is, but work towards making it a better, more heavenly place, healing it.

When all is said and done, one thing remains: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole of man.

That all fits into my adopted Big Picture as well.

Regards Tony

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That all fits into my adopted Big Picture as well.

Regards Tony

Hi Tony.

What I articulated was basic Judaism, although I worded it in a way that it would make sense for a modern person.

shalom

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hi Tony.

What I articulated was basic Judaism, although I worded it in a way that it would make sense for a modern person.

shalom

Shalom dear friend.

G-d is most great.

Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

I do not see any unifying principle that would unite all of mankind. Humanity has an ever growing atheist/naturalist population. I am unable to see all religions unifying into one religion. Generations come and go, and only prosperity keeps people from war.
A one world government would ruin all the progress made in the 20th and 21st century and would likely lead to losses of personal freedoms.

You seem to be one of the voices of reality here, osgart. The world will never see the kind of co-operation it would take to unite it in peace because what divides it is unbreachable.

I only have to listen to the US President confirming that complete obliteration would be the only outcome if Iran does not put its nuclear plans on hold or had actually planned to use them in an exchange. It seems incredibly odd to me that the only nation on earth to develop and use nuclear weapons was the US....and yet it tells everyone else that they can't have them. Why? Is it because everyone in the US assumes that they are the "good guys" with the white hats riding in on white horses? Who said? What if they aren't? What if all governments of this world are under the control of God's archenemy? (1 John 5:19)...and there are no good guys?

I have no faith that people are becoming more moral. I see the contrary happening.

Another realistic observation. How can the world become more moral when it has lost its moral compass altogether? It now points "South".

To remove all the divisions of mankind would lead to a false peace, and utter destruction. Every individual and faction of society has different competing visions.

The past is a bloody history of humanity. The present is tension filled, and the divisions are very real issues. The future will probably see religion fade from existence, and science/technology could be helpful or massively destructive.

And science and technology is proving every day that they do not want to improve the world....they just want to make money, or a name for themselves, and cater to human selfishness and greed....regardless of the cost to this earth and its inhabitants.

Humanity's version of universal peace to me seems to be a false one, lacking freedoms, rights, and privacy. Humans by nature are not peaceful creatures. I am amazed that we have not massively destroyed ourselves by now.

The only way to peace (an enforced fake peace) in the present system of things is totalitarianism...forcing all to conform to one set of laws under one government. Taking away personal freedom is the only way to have an absence of conflict.....remove the complaints department. Its a bit like the UN at present as the world's "peacekeepers" (Matthew 5:9)....they have tanks and weapons....a portent of things to come, according to the Bible.

There is a real difference between a "peacekeeper" and a "peacemaker"....only one uses love to make real and lasting peace because people have chosen to be peaceable....all the other does is take away the freedom to protest....I agree, it is a recipe for rebellion.

If ever there were universal peace it would happen gradually, and it would be a painfully slow process.

True and lasting world peace will only come about under the rulership of God's Kingdom. (Daniel 2:44) It will require the removal of all divisive elements and the implementation of God's laws, based on love to govern all human relationships and interactions. This will not need to be gradual because the Kingdom will "come" and completely remove all forms of corrupt and divisive human rulership, replacing it with a world government, not under the auspices of imperfect men, but under the leadership of Jesus Christ.

This is what he promised...this is what he will do. It will never come about by human means. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9) This will result in lasting peace and security for all time to come.

That is how I see the Big Picture.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That all fits into my adopted Big Picture as well.

Yeah, Moses was a manifestation of Allah. But what he said has been supplanted by what Bahaullah has said. Moses now, is an old story. No, Tony?

Another realistic observation. How can the world become more moral when it has lost its moral compass altogether? It now points "South".

The position of the Magnetic Pole changes. North becomes South and South becomes North. Reports say it is happening now.

"Yet in recent years, scientists noticed something unusual: Magnetic north's routine plod has shifted into high gear, sending it galloping across the Northern Hemisphere - and no one can entirely explain why."
Magnetic north just changed. Here's what that means.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, Moses was a manifestation of Allah. But what he said has been supplanted by what Bahaullah has said. Moses now, is an old story. No, Tony?

No that is not my understanding of the Bigger picture.

I see naught but a world full of love,
alighted by a white peace dove.
A world full of genuine caring souls,
liberated and free of the ways of old.
Thus the hand of God is in wide embrace,
Choose your path, choose your fate.

I rolled that off for you.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

I don't know. The Moses history is full of wars and brutalities against Israelites themselves and Amalekites, Medianites, etc. What a nice God!

"14. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 16. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17. Completely destroy them - the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites - as the Lord your God has commanded you."
Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 20 - New International Version

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't know. The Moses history is full of wars and brutalities against Israelites themselves and Amalekites, Medianites, etc. What a nice God!

"14. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 16. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17. Completely destroy them - the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites - as the Lord your God has commanded you."
Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 20 - New International Version

I see all those stories are the result of the rejection of what God has and had offered, mans own choices created those outcomes.

God has only offered love and how to bring that love to full fruition. The only way we can understand love is to be put into a creation that also has the opposite of hate, which is lack of love. Thus here we are a world of light and when light diminishes we have darkness. Thus God has created us to know what is love, to acheive that we are created at the end of darkness and the beginning of light, so if we want love we must look for within our own selves and choose the light.

So to balance the stories you quoted above, a comparison is made of this age. Baha'u'llah gave a Message of Peace and how to obtain it in the 1800's. He said the result of rejecting that message would be war and conflict, passages such as these;

“How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause...."

The cause is the unity of the human race. There are many many warnings.

Thus it is not God that is unfolding what is written, God has just given us timely warning, it is our reactions to that Message that is now writing the history.

Regards Tony

 

[dybmh]

I don't know. The Moses history is full of wars and brutalities against Israelites themselves and Amalekites, Medianites, etc. What a nice God!

"14. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 16. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17. Completely destroy them - the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites - as the Lord your God has commanded you."
Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 20 - New International Version

Deuteronomy Chapter 20 is talking about enemy nations.

20:1 - "When you go to war against your enemies..."

And it instructs to offer peace before before the plunder.

20:10 - "When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace."

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 20 - New International Version

Is God nice? Meh, not always. But you did cherry pick the worst parts of the chapter.