For Fellow Christians only: Today's modern Pharisees..

[aaglaas]

I proudly am like that Pharisee of old.

Je Suis Pharisee

Hi CMike, it should be noted that you are commenting on a thread for fellow Christians only in the 'same-faith' debates, so if you are of the Jewish faith, you really shouldn't be debating on this thread.

That said, just to be clear, when I refer to the Pharisees in this thread, it is not a blanket statement of 'all' Pharisees... only the hypocritical ones.

I'm finally starting to learn more in depth about the Pharisees of that time and am humbled by my lack of knowledge on the subject, having only read of them through Christian sources until now. The following I find particularly enlightening and enjoyable, as it does show that all Pharisees were not hypocrites, nor against Jesus:

Nothing could have been more loathsome to the genuine Pharisee than Hypocrisy.

"Whatever good a man does he should do it for the glory of God" (Ab. ii. 13; Ber. 17a). Nicodemus is blamed for having given of his wealth to the poor in an ostentatious manner (Ket. 66b). An evil action may be justified where the motive is a good one (Ber. 63a). Still, the very air of sanctity surrounding the life of the Pharisees often led to abuses. Alexander Jannæus warned his wife not against the Pharisees, his declared enemies, but against "the chameleon- or hyena- ["ẓebo'im"-] like hypocrites who act like Zimri and claim the reward of Phinehas:" (Soṭah 22b).

An ancient baraita enumerates seven classes of Pharisees, of which five consist of either eccentric fools or hypocrites: (1) "the shoulder Pharisee," who wears, as it were, his good actions. ostentatiously upon his shoulder; (2) "the wait-a-little Pharisee," who ever says, "Wait a little, until I have performed the good act awaiting me"; (3), "the bruised Pharisee," who in order to avoid looking at a woman runs against the wall so as to bruise himself and bleed; (4) "the pestle Pharisee," who walks with head down like the pestle in the mortar; (5) "the ever-reckoning Pharisee," who says, "Let me know what good I may do to counteract my neglect"; (6)"the God-fearing Pharisee," after the manner of Job; (7) "the God-loving Pharisee," after the manner of Abraham (Yer. Ber. ix. 14b; Soṭah 22b; Ab. R. N., text A, xxxvii.; text B, xlv. [ed. Schechter, pp. 55, 62]; the explanations in both Talmuds vary greatly; see Chwolson, "Das Letzte-Passahmahl," p. 116). R. Joshua b. Hananiah, at the beginning of the second century, calls eccentric Pharisees "destroyers of the world" (Soṭah iii. 4); and the term "Pharisaic plagues" is frequently used by the leaders of the time (Yer. Soṭah iii. 19a).


It is such types (the first 5, but not the last 2) of Pharisees that Jesus had in view when hurling his scathing words of condemnation against the Pharisees, whom he denounced as "hypocrites," calling them "offspring of vipers" ("hyenas"; see Ẓebu'im); "whited sepulchers which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones"; "blind guides," "which strain out the gnat and swallow the camel" (Matt. vi. 2-5, 16; xii. 34; xv. 14; xxiii. 24, 27, Greek). He himself tells his disciples to do as the Scribes and "Pharisees who sit on Moses' seat [see Almemar] bid them do"; but he blames them for not acting in the right spirit, for wearing large phylacteries and ẓiẓit, and for pretentiousness in many other things (ib. xxiii. 2-7). Exactly so are hypocrites censured in the Midrash (Pes. R. xxii. [ed. Friedmann, p. 111]); wearing tefillin and ẓiẓit, they harbor evil intentions in their breasts.Otherwise the Pharisees appear as friends of Jesus (Luke vii. 37, xiii. 31) and of the early Christians (Acts v. 38, xxiii. 9; "Ant." xx. 9, § 1).


Only in regard to intercourse with the unclean and "unwashed" multitude, with the 'am ha-areẓ, the publican, and the sinner, did Jesus differ widely from the Pharisees (Mark ii. 16; Luke v. 30, vii. 39, xi. 38, xv. 2, xix. 7). In regard to the main doctrine he fully agreed with them, as the old version (Mark xii. 28-34) still has it.


Owing, however, to the hostile attitude taken toward the Pharisaic schools by Pauline Christianity, especially in the time of the emperor Hadrian, (a blanket statement of) "Pharisees" was inserted in the Gospels wherever the high priests and Sadducees or Herodians were originally mentioned as the persecutors of Jesus, ignoring the other 2 types of ‘good’ Pharisees (see New Testament), and a false impression, which still prevails in Christian circles and among (almost) all Christian writers, was created concerning the Pharisees.

Excerpt from the Jewish Encyclopedia: PHARISEES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[sojourner]

Some endeavor to show that the ancient Hebrew concept of the universe included the idea of a solid vault arched over the earth, with sluice holes through which rain could enter and with the stars fixed within this solid vault, diagrams of such concept appearing in Bible dictionaries and some Bible translations. Commenting on this attitude, The International Standard Bible Encyclopædia states: “But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the O[ld] T[estament].”—Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314.

Not buying it. There's too much evidence to the contrary that the ancients thought this way.

Though the formation of the expanse, or atmosphere, surrounding earth did not involve a ‘beating out’ of something as solid as some metallic substance, yet it should be remembered that the gaseous mixture forming earth’s atmosphere is just as real as land and water and has weight in itself (in addition to carrying water and innumerable particles of solid materials, such as dust). The weight of all the air surrounding earth is estimated at more than 5,200,000,000,000,000 metric tons. (TheWorldBookEncyclopedia, 1987, Vol. 1, p. 156) Air pressure at sea level runs about 1 kg per sq cm (15 lb per sq in.). It also exercises resistance so that most meteors hitting the immense jacket of air surrounding the earth are burned up by the friction created by the atmosphere. Thus the force implied in the Hebrew word ra·qiʹaʽ is certainly in harmony with the known facts."

This smacks of a feeble attempt at justification, with no basis in literary or historical criticism.

 

[sojourner]

raqiya means an expanse such as widespread.

According to my OT professor (who is a Hebrew scholar), as well as other noted biblical scholars, it means "hammered-out dome."

 

[CMike]

According to my OT professor (who is a Hebrew scholar), as well as other noted biblical scholars, it means "hammered-out dome."

Well...he's wrong.

Also there is no such thing as the "OT".

It's called the Torah or the Tanach.

Maybe inform the "Hebrew Scholar" of this.

 

[CMike]

Hi CMike, it should be noted that you are commenting on a thread for fellow Christians only in the 'same-faith' debates, so if you are of the Jewish faith, you really shouldn't be debating on this thread.

That said, just to be clear, when I refer to the Pharisees in this thread, it is not a blanket statement of 'all' Pharisees... only the hypocritical ones.

I'm finally starting to learn more in depth about the Pharisees of that time and am humbled by my lack of knowledge on the subject, having only read of them through Christian sources until now. The following I find particularly enlightening and enjoyable, as it does show that all Pharisees were not hypocrites, nor against Jesus:

Nothing could have been more loathsome to the genuine Pharisee than Hypocrisy.

"Whatever good a man does he should do it for the glory of God" (Ab. ii. 13; Ber. 17a). Nicodemus is blamed for having given of his wealth to the poor in an ostentatious manner (Ket. 66b). An evil action may be justified where the motive is a good one (Ber. 63a). Still, the very air of sanctity surrounding the life of the Pharisees often led to abuses. Alexander Jannæus warned his wife not against the Pharisees, his declared enemies, but against "the chameleon- or hyena- ["ẓebo'im"-] like hypocrites who act like Zimri and claim the reward of Phinehas:" (Soṭah 22b).

An ancient baraita enumerates seven classes of Pharisees, of which five consist of either eccentric fools or hypocrites: (1) "the shoulder Pharisee," who wears, as it were, his good actions. ostentatiously upon his shoulder; (2) "the wait-a-little Pharisee," who ever says, "Wait a little, until I have performed the good act awaiting me"; (3), "the bruised Pharisee," who in order to avoid looking at a woman runs against the wall so as to bruise himself and bleed; (4) "the pestle Pharisee," who walks with head down like the pestle in the mortar; (5) "the ever-reckoning Pharisee," who says, "Let me know what good I may do to counteract my neglect"; (6)"the God-fearing Pharisee," after the manner of Job; (7) "the God-loving Pharisee," after the manner of Abraham (Yer. Ber. ix. 14b; Soṭah 22b; Ab. R. N., text A, xxxvii.; text B, xlv. [ed. Schechter, pp. 55, 62]; the explanations in both Talmuds vary greatly; see Chwolson, "Das Letzte-Passahmahl," p. 116). R. Joshua b. Hananiah, at the beginning of the second century, calls eccentric Pharisees "destroyers of the world" (Soṭah iii. 4); and the term "Pharisaic plagues" is frequently used by the leaders of the time (Yer. Soṭah iii. 19a).


It is such types (the first 5, but not the last 2) of Pharisees that Jesus had in view when hurling his scathing words of condemnation against the Pharisees, whom he denounced as "hypocrites," calling them "offspring of vipers" ("hyenas"; see Ẓebu'im); "whited sepulchers which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones"; "blind guides," "which strain out the gnat and swallow the camel" (Matt. vi. 2-5, 16; xii. 34; xv. 14; xxiii. 24, 27, Greek). He himself tells his disciples to do as the Scribes and "Pharisees who sit on Moses' seat [see Almemar] bid them do"; but he blames them for not acting in the right spirit, for wearing large phylacteries and ẓiẓit, and for pretentiousness in many other things (ib. xxiii. 2-7). Exactly so are hypocrites censured in the Midrash (Pes. R. xxii. [ed. Friedmann, p. 111]); wearing tefillin and ẓiẓit, they harbor evil intentions in their breasts.Otherwise the Pharisees appear as friends of Jesus (Luke vii. 37, xiii. 31) and of the early Christians (Acts v. 38, xxiii. 9; "Ant." xx. 9, § 1).


Only in regard to intercourse with the unclean and "unwashed" multitude, with the 'am ha-areẓ, the publican, and the sinner, did Jesus differ widely from the Pharisees (Mark ii. 16; Luke v. 30, vii. 39, xi. 38, xv. 2, xix. 7). In regard to the main doctrine he fully agreed with them, as the old version (Mark xii. 28-34) still has it.


Owing, however, to the hostile attitude taken toward the Pharisaic schools by Pauline Christianity, especially in the time of the emperor Hadrian, (a blanket statement of) "Pharisees" was inserted in the Gospels wherever the high priests and Sadducees or Herodians were originally mentioned as the persecutors of Jesus, ignoring the other 2 types of ‘good’ Pharisees (see New Testament), and a false impression, which still prevails in Christian circles and among (almost) all Christian writers, was created concerning the Pharisees.

Excerpt from the Jewish Encyclopedia: PHARISEES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Your thread is a direct attack on Jews.

 

[sojourner]

Well...he's wrong.

No. He's not wrong.

Also there is no such thing as the "OT".

It was a Christian seminary. It's easier to say "OT scholar" than it is to say "Hebrew text scholar." So shoot me; stop being so needlessly picayune. Don't dismiss someone you know nothing about by employing such childish tactics as assuming that he knows nothing about Hebrew, because I used an "imprecise" bit of terminology.
The term means what it means. Read this from Wikipedia:

The word "firmament" is used to translate raqia, or raqiya` ( רקיע), a word used in Biblical Hebrew.It is derived from the root raqa ( רקע), meaning "to beat or spread out", e.g., the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal.[5][6]

Like most ancient peoples, the Hebrews believed the sky was a solid dome with the Sun, Moon and stars embedded in it.[7]

According to The Jewish Encyclopedia:

The Hebrews regarded the earth as a plain or a hill figured like a hemisphere, swimming on water. Over this is arched the solid vault of heaven. To this vault are fastened the lights, the stars. So slight is this elevation that birds may rise to it and fly along its expanse.[8]

It doesn't mean "an expanse."

 

[sojourner]

"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)
Please don't presume to tell me what I believe. Some early Christians practiced homosexuality before becoming Christians, but stopped the practice once they understood it displeased God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) God shows love for homosexuals and other wrongdoers, not by condoning their sins, but by helping them make the needed changes to please him. (2 Peter 3:9) IMO, those who claim God will accept us regardless of what we do without repenting, are misleading others and the truth is not in them. (1 John 1:6)

Problem is, when Timothy refers to "all scripture," it's not referring to any NT scripture, because the NT wasn't scripture when 2 Tim. was written. It's referring only to the Hebrew texts.

This is another place where you're discounting science in favor of some misplaced biblical allegiance. Scientific fact tells us that gay isn't something that needs to be (or can be) "fixed." IOW, it's damaging to try to "change" a homosexual, and the practice is contraindicated.

 

[Desert Snake]

Many Christians today are guilty of being just like the Pharisees, using scripture as a weapon to persecute and reject others over how God created them and who they love, while ignoring every teaching and command that is inconvenient for them to follow. The following teachings that they ignore every day while thinking they are condemning those who disagree or who question their actions to hell, highlights their moral hypocrisy quite well.

Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Romans 13:9

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not show love to others, I am merely a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not show love to others, I am nothing.…

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?” He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second most important commandment is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”

Matthew 23-4

“They (the Pharisees both ancient and modern) crush other people with unbearable religious demands and yet themselves never lift a finger to ease the burden.”

Matthew 18:21-22

“Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!”

Matthew 23:13

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.”

Matthew 23: 15

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!”

1 Timothy 4:1-4

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.” For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

We can see that happening today from people whose consciences have been totally seared away, and who have no care or feeling whatsoever as to the spiritual and emotional pain and torment they cause gay people with their prejudice and rejection, many times to the point of suicide, or the teachings they spread that today are being used as justification to beat, imprison, and murder gay people in Uganda and many other places around the world. We can see such people today with unholy zeal attempting to forbid marriage to gay people as well, just as was prophesied while they reject instead of receiving with gratitude the unique way that God created gay people.

It is truly horrific and goes against all teachings of Christ to Love and accept one another as God created us, but the demons are surely delighted by so much hatred, persecution, and murder engendered through their false and hateful teachings.

Theres a problem with the subjective nature of interpretation in these verses.
One, example.
''works''.
This is subjective. Works as in what? and before you think there is some obvious answer to that, there isn't; because the Bible is actually sort of vague here. Not saying it's because this is from later added epistles, but because people love to quote these verses sort of out of order, in order to back up their ''works'' argument. You know, the one that promotes ''works'', //subjective, different meanings/, as opposed to faith.

 

[CMike]

Hi CMike, it should be noted that you are commenting on a thread for fellow Christians only in the 'same-faith' debates, so if you are of the Jewish faith, you really shouldn't be debating on this thread.

That said, just to be clear, when I refer to the Pharisees in this thread, it is not a blanket statement of 'all' Pharisees... only the hypocritical ones.

I'm finally starting to learn more in depth about the Pharisees of that time and am humbled by my lack of knowledge on the subject, having only read of them through Christian sources until now. The following I find particularly enlightening and enjoyable, as it does show that all Pharisees were not hypocrites, nor against Jesus:

Nothing could have been more loathsome to the genuine Pharisee than Hypocrisy.

"Whatever good a man does he should do it for the glory of God" (Ab. ii. 13; Ber. 17a). Nicodemus is blamed for having given of his wealth to the poor in an ostentatious manner (Ket. 66b). An evil action may be justified where the motive is a good one (Ber. 63a). Still, the very air of sanctity surrounding the life of the Pharisees often led to abuses. Alexander Jannæus warned his wife not against the Pharisees, his declared enemies, but against "the chameleon- or hyena- ["ẓebo'im"-] like hypocrites who act like Zimri and claim the reward of Phinehas:" (Soṭah 22b).

An ancient baraita enumerates seven classes of Pharisees, of which five consist of either eccentric fools or hypocrites: (1) "the shoulder Pharisee," who wears, as it were, his good actions. ostentatiously upon his shoulder; (2) "the wait-a-little Pharisee," who ever says, "Wait a little, until I have performed the good act awaiting me"; (3), "the bruised Pharisee," who in order to avoid looking at a woman runs against the wall so as to bruise himself and bleed; (4) "the pestle Pharisee," who walks with head down like the pestle in the mortar; (5) "the ever-reckoning Pharisee," who says, "Let me know what good I may do to counteract my neglect"; (6)"the God-fearing Pharisee," after the manner of Job; (7) "the God-loving Pharisee," after the manner of Abraham (Yer. Ber. ix. 14b; Soṭah 22b; Ab. R. N., text A, xxxvii.; text B, xlv. [ed. Schechter, pp. 55, 62]; the explanations in both Talmuds vary greatly; see Chwolson, "Das Letzte-Passahmahl," p. 116). R. Joshua b. Hananiah, at the beginning of the second century, calls eccentric Pharisees "destroyers of the world" (Soṭah iii. 4); and the term "Pharisaic plagues" is frequently used by the leaders of the time (Yer. Soṭah iii. 19a).


It is such types (the first 5, but not the last 2) of Pharisees that Jesus had in view when hurling his scathing words of condemnation against the Pharisees, whom he denounced as "hypocrites," calling them "offspring of vipers" ("hyenas"; see Ẓebu'im); "whited sepulchers which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones"; "blind guides," "which strain out the gnat and swallow the camel" (Matt. vi. 2-5, 16; xii. 34; xv. 14; xxiii. 24, 27, Greek). He himself tells his disciples to do as the Scribes and "Pharisees who sit on Moses' seat [see Almemar] bid them do"; but he blames them for not acting in the right spirit, for wearing large phylacteries and ẓiẓit, and for pretentiousness in many other things (ib. xxiii. 2-7). Exactly so are hypocrites censured in the Midrash (Pes. R. xxii. [ed. Friedmann, p. 111]); wearing tefillin and ẓiẓit, they harbor evil intentions in their breasts.Otherwise the Pharisees appear as friends of Jesus (Luke vii. 37, xiii. 31) and of the early Christians (Acts v. 38, xxiii. 9; "Ant." xx. 9, § 1).


Only in regard to intercourse with the unclean and "unwashed" multitude, with the 'am ha-areẓ, the publican, and the sinner, did Jesus differ widely from the Pharisees (Mark ii. 16; Luke v. 30, vii. 39, xi. 38, xv. 2, xix. 7). In regard to the main doctrine he fully agreed with them, as the old version (Mark xii. 28-34) still has it.


Owing, however, to the hostile attitude taken toward the Pharisaic schools by Pauline Christianity, especially in the time of the emperor Hadrian, (a blanket statement of) "Pharisees" was inserted in the Gospels wherever the high priests and Sadducees or Herodians were originally mentioned as the persecutors of Jesus, ignoring the other 2 types of ‘good’ Pharisees (see New Testament), and a false impression, which still prevails in Christian circles and among (almost) all Christian writers, was created concerning the Pharisees.

Excerpt from the Jewish Encyclopedia: PHARISEES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Yanno.

You are right.

I will start my own thread in same faith dealing with these issues.

 

[aaglaas]

Your thread is a direct attack on Jews.

The ones I defined were the ones who wanted Jesus dead, and who were moral hypocrites.... not 'all' Jews. I know plenty of loving and wonderful people of the Jewish faith.

 

[sojourner]

The ones I defined were the ones who wanted Jesus dead, and who were moral hypocrites.... not 'all' Jews. I know plenty of loving and wonderful people of the Jewish faith.

This is tantamount to "some of my best friends are gay." Better to just say, "I respect Jews for who they are."

 

[aaglaas]

This is tantamount to "some of my best friends are gay." Better to just say, "I respect Jews for who they are."

Good point. Since I myself am gay, I can definitely respect that statement. I have many Jewish friends, and respect all people who have deep religious or spiritual faith... as long as they don't try to harm or persecute others with it.

 

[Norman]

Many Christians today are guilty of being just like the Pharisees, using scripture as a weapon to persecute and reject others over how God created them and who they love, while ignoring every teaching and command that is inconvenient for them to follow. The following teachings that they ignore every day while thinking they are condemning those who disagree or who question their actions to hell, highlights their moral hypocrisy quite well.

Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Romans 13:9

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not show love to others, I am merely a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not show love to others, I am nothing.…

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?” He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second most important commandment is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”

Matthew 23-4

“They (the Pharisees both ancient and modern) crush other people with unbearable religious demands and yet themselves never lift a finger to ease the burden.”

Matthew 18:21-22

“Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!”

Matthew 23:13

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.”

Matthew 23: 15

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!”

1 Timothy 4:1-4

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.” For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

We can see that happening today from people whose consciences have been totally seared away, and who have no care or feeling whatsoever as to the spiritual and emotional pain and torment they cause gay people with their prejudice and rejection, many times to the point of suicide, or the teachings they spread that today are being used as justification to beat, imprison, and murder gay people in Uganda and many other places around the world. We can see such people today with unholy zeal attempting to forbid marriage to gay people as well, just as was prophesied while they reject instead of receiving with gratitude the unique way that God created gay people.

It is truly horrific and goes against all teachings of Christ to Love and accept one another as God created us, but the demons are surely delighted by so much hatred, persecution, and murder engendered through their false and hateful teachings.

Many Christians today are guilty of being just like the Pharisees, using scripture as a weapon to persecute and reject others over how God created them and who they love, while ignoring every teaching and command that is inconvenient for them to follow. The following teachings that they ignore every day while thinking they are condemning those who disagree or who question their actions to hell, highlights their moral hypocrisy quite well.

Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Romans 13:9

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not show love to others, I am merely a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not show love to others, I am nothing.…

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?” He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second most important commandment is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”

Matthew 23-4

“They (the Pharisees both ancient and modern) crush other people with unbearable religious demands and yet themselves never lift a finger to ease the burden.”

Matthew 18:21-22

“Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!”

Matthew 23:13

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.”

Matthew 23: 15

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!”

1 Timothy 4:1-4

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.” For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

We can see that happening today from people whose consciences have been totally seared away, and who have no care or feeling whatsoever as to the spiritual and emotional pain and torment they cause gay people with their prejudice and rejection, many times to the point of suicide, or the teachings they spread that today are being used as justification to beat, imprison, and murder gay people in Uganda and many other places around the world. We can see such people today with unholy zeal attempting to forbid marriage to gay people as well, just as was prophesied while they reject instead of receiving with gratitude the unique way that God created gay people.

It is truly horrific and goes against all teachings of Christ to Love and accept one another as God created us, but the demons are surely delighted by so much hatred, persecution, and murder engendered through their false and hateful teachings.

Norman: Hi aaglaas, Hello, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and you may find my existence grotesque and have a problem with me. However, I want to say that I have posted my position on this in times past in the RF. I want you to know that I feel your pain, anger and frustration in a very personal way that I cannot divulge right now. No young man or young woman in my Church or your Church or any other Church or non-denomination should ever have to commit suicide. All because they are gay and feel that no one loves them because of who they are. The harassment, disparaging comments, the hatred, bullying in the schools, discrimination in the work place, in housing, and any where else has to stop. I just want to say that I hold no malicious in my heart for any of my brothers and sisters on the earth. I just want you to know that you have my prayers, thoughts and sincere heart felt wishes for you. I have two dear friends who are gay and I love them both very much. Please read below. For what it is worth that is all I wanted to say.

LGBT anti-discrimination bill clears Legislature, on its way to Utah governor

The 65-10 vote was the last legislative hurdle for SB296, just one week after it debuted with the blessing of the LDS Church and the LGBT community. Under SB296, existing anti-discrimination laws for housing and employment would be amended to include sexual orientation and gender identity and clarify exemptions for religious institutions and provide protections for religious expression. The legislation would make it illegal for employers and landlords to discriminate against individuals based on their sexual orientation or gender identity. Religious organizations and their affiliates would be exempt from the bill's requirements. Rep. Brad Wilson, R-Kaysville, supported the bill by trying to assuage the fears of those worried about changing Utah's fundamental character, which is dominated by the LDS Church. The faith claims membership of more than 60 percent of Utahns and more than 80 percent of state lawmakers

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2279279-155/lgbt-antidiscrimintation-bill-clears-legislature-on

 

[aaglaas]

Norman: Hi aaglaas, Hello, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and you may find my existence grotesque and have a problem with me. However, I want to say that I have posted my position on this in times past in the RF. I want you to know that I feel your pain, anger and frustration in a very personal way that I cannot divulge right now. No young man or young woman in my Church or your Church or any other Church or non-denomination should ever have to commit suicide. All because they are gay and feel that no one loves them because of who they are. The harassment, disparaging comments, the hatred, bullying in the schools, discrimination in the work place, in housing, and any where else has to stop. I just want to say that I hold no malicious in my heart for any of my brothers and sisters on the earth. I just want you to know that you have my prayers, thoughts and sincere heart felt wishes for you. I have two dear friends who are gay and I love them both very much. Please read below. For what it is worth that is all I wanted to say.

LGBT anti-discrimination bill clears Legislature, on its way to Utah governor

The 65-10 vote was the last legislative hurdle for SB296, just one week after it debuted with the blessing of the LDS Church and the LGBT community. Under SB296, existing anti-discrimination laws for housing and employment would be amended to include sexual orientation and gender identity and clarify exemptions for religious institutions and provide protections for religious expression. The legislation would make it illegal for employers and landlords to discriminate against individuals based on their sexual orientation or gender identity. Religious organizations and their affiliates would be exempt from the bill's requirements. Rep. Brad Wilson, R-Kaysville, supported the bill by trying to assuage the fears of those worried about changing Utah's fundamental character, which is dominated by the LDS Church. The faith claims membership of more than 60 percent of Utahns and more than 80 percent of state lawmakers

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2279279-155/lgbt-antidiscrimintation-bill-clears-legislature-on

Hi Norman, thank you so VERY much and God bless you. I want you to know that I don't have any feelings of ill-will towards members of your denomination. I grew up and were close friends with many of the same faith as you and they have always treated me kindly.. and with respect and true love.

I highly admire and respect your church's recent efforts on this issue.

Thank you again and I hope you have an awesome weekend!!