For the Christians (Abrahamic only)

[dance-above]

This and the Jeremiah citation must be taken into context, and what both have God saying is that rote ritual cannot be a substitute for moral conduct, which is a theme mentioned many times in the Writings of the Prophets.

If you look up "love" and how it appears in the Tanakh, it's used 450 times in various contexts (see Bible, Revised Standard Version ), but there are other verses whereas another word may be used but have the same message.

Jesus did not invent the concept, nor was he the first of our people to insist that we must operate out of love. The Sermon in the Mount is very Jewish.

Also, you might check this out:

Genesis 17:[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

Genesis 17:[13] both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

Deuteronomy 7:[9] Know therefore that the LORD your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

Deuteronomy 29:[12] that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God makes with you this day;
[13] that he may establish you this day as his people, and that he may be your God, as he promised you, and as he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Psalms 89:[34] I will not violate my covenant,
or alter the word that went forth from my lips.

Psalms 105:[8] He is mindful of his covenant for ever,
of the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

Isaiah 44:[21] Remember these things, O Jacob,
and Israel, for you are my servant;
I formed you, you are my servant;
O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.

Isaiah 45:[17] But Israel is saved by the LORD
with everlasting salvation;
you shall not be put to shame or confounded
to all eternity.

Isaiah 52:[1] Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Isaiah 59:[20] "And he will come to Zion as Redeemer,
to those in Jacob who turn from transgression, says the LORD.
[21] "And as for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD: my spirit which is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, or out of the mouth of your children, or out of the mouth of your children's children, says the LORD, from this time forth and for evermore."

Isaiah 66:[22] "For as the new heavens and the new earth
which I will make
shall remain before me, says the LORD;
so shall your descendants and your name remain.

I do believe he is your God and that he loves you. And he has promised to return and all Israel shall be saved.

 

[metis]

I do believe he is your God and that he loves you. And he has promised to return and all Israel shall be saved.

Who said God ever left?

 

[dance-above]

But:

Deuteronomy 4: (2): "your G-d…shall not add to what I have commanded you or subtract."

Dt. 13(1): "You shall be careful to observe, neither adding to it or subtracting."

Dt. 13(5): "His commandment you shall observe, holding fast to Him alone."

Dt. 29(28): "Concerns us and our descendents forever, that we may carry out all the words of this Law."

Joshua 1(5): "I will not leave or forsake you…(7) observe the entire Law … do not swerve from it."

Psalms 19(8): "The Law of the Lord is perfect… (10) the ordinances of the Lord are true; all of them are just."

Ps. 119(160): "permanence is Your words chief trait, each of Your just ordinances is everlasting."

Isaiah 42(21): "pleased the Lord in His justice to make His Law great and glorious."

Baruch 4(1): "the Law endures forever."

The above is just a sampling.

your absolutely right. The is not one sin of the new covenant nor does it contradict any of the old scriptures.

 

[metis]

your absolutely right. The is not one sin of the new covenant nor does it contradict any of the old scriptures.

Except here's the Law-- all 613 of them: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

 

[dance-above]

Who said God ever left?

Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, "Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they have done, in that they have turned to other gods (Deuteronomy 31:17-18)
Then He said, I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end will be (Deuteronomy 32:20)
Then they will cry to YHVH, but He will not hear them. But He will even hide His face from them at that time, because they have been evil in their deeds (Micah 3:4).

 

[metis]

Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, "Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they have done, in that they have turned to other gods (Deuteronomy 31:17-18)
Then He said, I will hide My face from them, I will see what their end will be (Deuteronomy 32:20)
Then they will cry to YHVH, but He will not hear them. But He will even hide His face from them at that time, because they have been evil in their deeds (Micah 3:4).

But who's the "they" and "them"? All Jews?

On top of that, do you believe God is a liar to do what He said He wouldn't do?

 

[dance-above]

I'm not sure I understand.

Yes. If I die, I no longer need to eat kosher, or follow the Shabbat. The law is made to be applied, during our lives.
When someone else dies though, that doesn't annul the law for me...

What do you mean by "every covenant is not without the shedding of blood". Are you referring to sacrifices, and so to Jesus' crucifixion ?

let me ask you this one question, do you believe death came to all men because off Adam?

 

[dance-above]

Except here's the Law-- all 613 of them: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

This is an old testament law: the just shall live by faith....here is a new testament Quote: the law of life has set me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[dance-above]

But who's the "they" and "them"? All Jews?

On top of that, do you believe God is a liar to do what He said He wouldn't do?

Absolutely not a liar. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[dance-above]

Originally Posted by metis
But who's the "they" and "them"? All Jews?

All that are circumcised unto the mosaic covenant.

Consequences of Disobedience

15 “But it shall come about, if you do not [o]obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
16 “Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the [p]country.
17 “Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.
18 “Cursed shall be the [q]offspring of your [r]body and the [s]produce of your ground, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock.
19 “Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
20 “The Lord will send upon you curses, confusion, and rebuke, in all [t]you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the pestilence cling to you until He has consumed you from the land where you are entering to possess it. 22 The Lord will smite you with consumption and with fever and with inflammation and with fiery heat and with [u]the sword and with blight and with mildew, and they will pursue you until you perish. 23 [v]The heaven which is over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you, iron. 24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.
25 “The Lord shall cause you to be [w]defeated before your enemies; you will go out one way against them, but you will flee seven ways before them, and you will be an example of terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food to all birds of the sky and to the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away.




45 “So all these curses shall come on you and pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you would not [ac]obey the Lord your God by keeping His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 They shall become a sign and a wonder on you and your [ad]descendants forever.
47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and a glad heart, for the abundance of all things; 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in the lack of all things; and He will put an iron yoke on your neck until He has destroyed you.
4


58 “If you are not careful to observe all the words of this law which are written in this book, to [av]fear this honored and awesome name, [aw]the Lord your God, 59 then the Lord will bring extraordinary plagues on you and [ax]your descendants, even [ay]severe and lasting plagues, and miserable and chronic sicknesses. 60 He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt of which you were afraid, and they will cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague which, not written in the book of this law, the Lord will bring on you until you are destroyed. 62 Then you shall be left few in number, whereas you were as numerous as the stars of heaven, because you did not [az]obey the Lord your God. 63 It shall come about that as the Lord delighted over you to prosper you, and multiply you, so the Lord will delight over you to make you perish and destroy you; and you will be torn from the land where you are entering to possess it. 64 Moreover, the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth; and there you shall serve other gods, wood and stone, which you or your fathers have not known. 65 Among those nations you shall find no rest, and there will be no resting place for the sole of your foot; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing of eyes, and despair of soul. 66 So your life shall [ba]hang in doubt before you; and you will be in dread night and day, and shall have no assurance of your life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘Would that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Would that it were morning!’ because of the dread of your heart which you dread, and for the sight of your eyes which you will see. 68 The Lord will bring you back to Egypt in ships, by the way about which I spoke to you, ‘You will never see it again!’ And there you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer.”.

I had to delete some of this because it was so long.


Quote from the new testament "any man that is circumcised is required to keep the whole law."

 

[Shiranui117]

Quote from the new testament "any man that is circumcised is required to keep the whole law."

Sucks for the vast majority of American men, then...

 

[dance-above]

I'm sorry if I haven't made sense to you. Really only God can make a blind man see. I'll I know is that as a Christian were supposed to be ready to give a reason for the hope that is in us. The letters of the apostles explain these things way better than I ever could. But I still try.

 

[dance-above]

Sucks for the vast majority of American men, then...

Not circumcision in general but circumcision for the mosaic law.

 

[dance-above]

let me ask you this one question, do you believe death came to all men because off Adam?

our faith teaches that Jesus is the Last Adam and that if he died for all then we all died so that we no longer serve ourselves but he that died for us.

 

[metis]

Absolutely not a liar. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

That actually is a misunderstanding of the Law. Violation of many of the Laws have penalties attached to them, according to the scriptures. Therefore, if you were correct and Torah was written your way, then every single Law would have the death penalty attached to it-- every single one. But that's not what's written.

Secondly, by your own words based on your own beliefs as we see above, you are doomed. However, your interpretation is highly inaccurate, nor does the Law apply to gentiles anyway.

Finally, a question I asked someone, maybe you, earlier, and that is if Jesus "died for our sins", which nature of Jesus was "sacrificed": human or divine?

Listen, we pretty much understand what's found in Torah and Tanakh as we've were at this long before Jesus was even born, so to imply that somehow we don't understand our own scriptures is rather bizarre, wouldn't you say? Do you honestly believe we are so ignorant whereas the scriptures we wrote, commented on, translated into other languages, and passed on to others we really are totally clueless about?

Believe what you want, but can you see where we may feel rather insulted by what you've written? Can you also see that you are turning your "god" into a liar that says the Covenant is "forever", "perpetual", and "everlasting" but then breaks that promise? Can you really trust your "god" if he so willingly lies?

Think about it.


Edit: btw, you never answered my question as to who the "they" and "them" refers to.

 

[Sleeppy]

Sunday, or Sat. Sabbath.. FDA regulations, and doctor recommended diets.. Satellite assisted farming...

We've come a long way.

 

[dance-above]

That actually is a misunderstanding of the Law. Violation of many of the Laws have penalties attached to them, according to the scriptures. Therefore, if you were correct and Torah was written your way, then every single Law would have the death penalty attached to it-- every single one. But that's not what's written.

Secondly, by your own words based on your own beliefs as we see above, you are doomed. However, your interpretation is highly inaccurate, nor does the Law apply to gentiles anyway.

Finally, a question I asked someone, maybe you, earlier, and that is if Jesus "died for our sins", which nature of Jesus was "sacrificed": human or divine?

Listen, we pretty much understand what's found in Torah and Tanakh as we've were at this long before Jesus was even born, so to imply that somehow we don't understand our own scriptures is rather bizarre, wouldn't you say? Do you honestly believe we are so ignorant whereas the scriptures we wrote, commented on, translated into other languages, and passed on to others we really are totally clueless about?

Believe what you want, but can you see where we may feel rather insulted by what you've written? Can you also see that you are turning your "god" into a liar that says the Covenant is "forever", "perpetual", and "everlasting" but then breaks that promise? Can you really trust your "god" if he so willingly lies?

Think about it.


Edit: btw, you never answered my question as to who the "they" and "them" refers to.

I did not say I was under the law. Christ set us free from the law of sin and death. How do I offend you this is in your law.

 

[metis]

I did not say I was under the law. Christ set us free from the law of sin and death. How do I offend you this is in your law.

If you feel "saved" by Jesus, I really don't have a problem with that, but you went well beyond that to imply that we really don't understand that which applies to us.

Anyhow, 'nuff said unless something new comes across.

Shalom

 

[dance-above]

That actually is a misunderstanding of the Law. Violation of many of the Laws have penalties attached to them, according to the scriptures. Therefore, if you were correct and Torah was written your way, then every single Law would have the death penalty attached to it-- every single one. But that's not what's written.

Secondly, by your own words based on your own beliefs as we see above, you are doomed. However, your interpretation is highly inaccurate, nor does the Law apply to gentiles anyway.

Finally, a question I asked someone, maybe you, earlier, and that is if Jesus "died for our sins", which nature of Jesus was "sacrificed": human or divine?

Listen, we pretty much understand what's found in Torah and Tanakh as we've were at this long before Jesus was even born, so to imply that somehow we don't understand our own scriptures is rather bizarre, wouldn't you say? Do you honestly believe we are so ignorant whereas the scriptures we wrote, commented on, translated into other languages, and passed on to others we really are totally clueless about?

Believe what you want, but can you see where we may feel rather insulted by what you've written? Can you also see that you are turning your "god" into a liar that says the Covenant is "forever", "perpetual", and "everlasting" but then breaks that promise? Can you really trust your "god" if he so willingly lies?

Think about it.


Edit: btw, you never answered my question as to who the "they" and "them" refers to.

I did answer your question about who they and them were. go back a few post. If the scripture I quoted does not appear in your scriptures the disregard them for it is pointless to use them for explanation.

 

[dance-above]

If you feel "saved" by Jesus, I really don't have a problem with that, but you went well beyond that to imply that we really don't understand that which applies to us.

Anyhow, 'nuff said unless something new comes across.

Shalom

I did not meen to offend but the original question was posted to Christians so I don't understand what I have done wrong by using all of the scripture, new and old to explain.