For trinity believers: Does your world come unravelled if Jesus is not God,but ONLY Gods Son?

[jimb]

In the beginning was the plan, and the plan was with God, and the plan was God. (because the whole thing revolved around the Messiah) All things came into being through that plan, and without the plan not one thing came into being.

I am not sure what you're trying to say. If you're trying to be funny, YOU'RE NOT.

 

[Muffled]

because of sin we have death . under Jesus' kingdom rule death will be removed. until that time you still sin and we continue to die .

believe we are not sinless but we do sin less.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

the problem with that is that Jesus has a God. He said he was going to HIS God and Father, right? John 20:17 - "Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” So Jesus clearly said he has a God.

The fleshly body had a God. The eternal Spirit was the God of that flesh. YHWH said in the OT that he was the God of all flesh. That would include that flesh. The eternal Spirit was God. That body was a temporary physical body that God took on to sacrifice for our sins. That fleshly body had to be in subjection to the Spirit and be obedient to all the laws of the OT in order to be a perfect sacrifice.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

That is true that in the Bible angels always came in the form of men. As I was looking at Colossians 1 again, I see that Paul wrote about the God and Father of Jesus. I'm sure you're familiar with that scripture. 3 "We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying continually for you", So Paul wrote they give thanks to the God (and Father) of their Lord -- who was, of course, Jesus Christ.

The Spirit was the Father of the body that the Spirit made himself to dwell in and sacrifice for sins. But it was his body. He could call it his son, because the Spirit was the father of that body. But just like it says in Isaiah 9:6 - the son to be born was also the mighty God and the everlasting Father. He was both the Father and the Son. The Father was the Spirit and the Son was the flesh (the body). It's not two separate persons but a difference between Spirit and flesh.

He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. The Father would be invisible without that image (or you could say that body).

 

[YoursTrue]

The Spirit was the Father of the body that the Spirit made himself to dwell in and sacrifice for sins. But it was his body. He could call it his son, because the Spirit was the father of that body. But just like it says in Isaiah 9:6 - the son to be born was also the mighty God and the everlasting Father. He was both the Father and the Son. The Father was the Spirit and the Son was the flesh (the body). It's not two separate persons but a difference between Spirit and flesh.

He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. The Father would be invisible without that image (or you could say that body).

I see that when Jesus spoke, he only spoke as to what the Father (his heavenly father) approved. The Father was in heaven while Jesus was on the earth. And Jesus went back to heaven after his resurrection.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I am not sure what you're trying to say. If you're trying to be funny, YOU'RE NOT.

I'm not trying to be funny at all. The Greek word logos means thought/idea/plan/concept etc. So I was putting the meaning into the scripture quoted to show what it is saying.

Trinitarian translators have tried to make it look like there are two in those verses in John 1:1

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I see that when Jesus spoke, he only spoke as to what the Father (his heavenly father) approved. The Father was in heaven while Jesus was on the earth. And Jesus went back to heaven after his resurrection.

God is an eternal Spirit that fills the heavens and the earth. The fulness of the deity (Godhead) dwelt in that body. Colossians 2:9

The Father was in that body. In Isaiah 40:3 it foretells of the voice in the wilderness who was to prepare the way for YHWH. When you get to the NT, that voice turns out to be John the Baptist. Matthew 3:1-3 I now ask you who John prepared the way for? Who was it that showed up?

The Messiah was YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body.

Micah 1:3 foretold that YHWH would come forth from his dwelling place and come down and tread upon the high places of the earth. Verse 5 lets us know it was because of sin. It also says What is Judah's high place? Is it not Jerusalem? That is exactly what YHWH did. He came down and tread upon the high places of Jerusalem in the body of the Messiah.

 

[YoursTrue]

God is an eternal Spirit that fills the heavens and the earth. The fulness of the deity (Godhead) dwelt in that body. Colossians 2:9

The Father was in that body. In Isaiah 40:3 it foretells of the voice in the wilderness who was to prepare the way for YHWH. When you get to the NT, that voice turns out to be John the Baptist. Matthew 3:1-3 I now ask you who John prepared the way for? Who was it that showed up?

The Messiah was YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body.

I see the Father's voice was heard from heaven when Jesus was baptized.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I see the Father's voice was heard from heaven when Jesus was baptized.

Why are you not answering my questions to you? Who was John the Baptist (the voice in the wilderness) supposed to prepare the way for?

Isaiah 40:3 - Make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Isaiah 40:9 - say to the towns of Judah, Here is your God!

 

[TrueBeliever37]

There are reasons why translations differ, but you are right when you say that ancient (and even modern societies) have differing genders for words we take in common. So the fact that the holy spirit is in the male term does not mean it is equal to the other two godpersons. Furthermore, when Jesus spoke of the holy spirit, he said soon thereafter that God is greater than he (Jesus) is. While the holy spirit is referenced in the male gender, there is nothing to say that it is equal to the other two godpersons. In fact --
John 14:28 - You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (New American Standard Bible)

The Holy Spirit is the Father. Matthew 1:18-20 God is a Spirit and he is holy. John 4:24 And there is only one God.

The Father (the Spirit) was greater than the flesh. The miracles were all worked by the Spirit, not the flesh. John 14:10-11

God has to reveal the relationship of the Father and Son to us or you just won't understand it. Matthew 11:27

 

[YoursTrue]

God is an eternal Spirit that fills the heavens and the earth. The fulness of the deity (Godhead) dwelt in that body. Colossians 2:9

The Father was in that body. In Isaiah 40:3 it foretells of the voice in the wilderness who was to prepare the way for YHWH. When you get to the NT, that voice turns out to be John the Baptist. Matthew 3:1-3 I now ask you who John prepared the way for? Who was it that showed up?

The Messiah was YHWH dwelling in a fleshly body.

Micah 1:3 foretold that YHWH would come forth from his dwelling place and come down and tread upon the high places of the earth. Verse 5 lets us know it was because of sin. It also says What is Judah's high place? Is it not Jerusalem? That is exactly what YHWH did. He came down and tread upon the high places of Jerusalem in the body of the Messiah.

From the King James Bible, Psalm 83:18 -
King James Bible
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

 

[jimb]

From the King James Bible, Psalm 83:18 -
King James Bible
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

So???

Here is that verse from the NRSVue...

"Let them know that you alone,
whose name is the Lord,
are the Most High over all the earth."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say by taking a single verse of one psalm. This has nothing to do with the knowledge of who comprises the Godhead. It certainly doesn't indicate that the Father alone is God.

 

[YoursTrue]

So???

Here is that verse from the NRSVue...

"Let them know that you alone,
whose name is the Lord,
are the Most High over all the earth."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say by taking a single verse of one psalm. This has nothing to do with the knowledge of who comprises the Godhead. It certainly doesn't indicate that the Father alone is God.

You do understand that the word LORD used in capital letters in many Bibles over and over again indicates that it is a substitute for the Tetragrammaton, right? (The 4 Hebrew letters signifying God's name.)

 

[jimb]

You do understand that the word LORD used in capital letters in many Bibles over and over again indicates that it is a substitute for the Tetragrammaton, right? (The 4 Hebrew letters signifying God's name.)

Yes, I do. What is your point?

 

[YoursTrue]

So???

Here is that verse from the NRSVue...

"Let them know that you alone,
whose name is the Lord,
are the Most High over all the earth."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say by taking a single verse of one psalm. This has nothing to do with the knowledge of who comprises the Godhead. It certainly doesn't indicate that the Father alone is God.

A good translation in my opinion would use the actual term for God's name. LORD or Lord is not an accurate rendering of the Tetragrammaton.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Holy Spirit is the Father. Matthew 1:18-20 God is a Spirit and he is holy. John 4:24 And there is only one God.

The Father (the Spirit) was greater than the flesh. The miracles were all worked by the Spirit, not the flesh. John 14:10-11

God has to reveal the relationship of the Father and Son to us or you just won't understand it. Matthew 11:27

I agree that unless God guides a person to understand more about Him, that person will not know.

 

[Kathryn]

My world will not come unraveled because I am sure I have a lot of doctrine right and a lot of doctrine wrong but thankfully I do not believe that God is testing us per se - I think God knows our hearts and will come running to meet us and I think I will probably fall to the ground.

 

[YoursTrue]

My world will not come unraveled because I am sure I have a lot of doctrine right and a lot of doctrine wrong but thankfully I do not believe that God is testing us per se - I think God knows our hearts and will come running to meet us and I think I will probably fall to the ground.

God knows each of us and deals appropriately with us. Proverbs 16:2 - (King James Bible) All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

 

[Kathryn]

God knows each of us and deals appropriately with us. Proverbs 16:2 - (King James Bible) All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

Well, I agree with that. You know what - even though some people are jerks, I bet most of them don't wake up and say "I think I'll be a jerk today!"

 

[jimb]

A good translation in my opinion would use the actual term for God's name. LORD or Lord is not an accurate rendering of the Tetragrammaton.

The great majority of people have no idea what the tetragrammaton means. Firstly, in Hebrew, it is read from left to right, so YHWH is actually backwards. Secondly, the tetragrammaton is intentionally unpronounceable. This causes difficulty when the OT is read aloud, so something has to be said. "LORD or Lord" is what English-speaking people use for God's name, whether spoken or written.

So what, in your opinion, are the actual terms for God's name (oral and written)?