"Forced Genital Cutting," and Jewish circumcision

[ZooGirl02]

While I am personally opposed to male circumcision I do believe it would be wrong to ban all non-therapeutic male circumcisions. After all, male circumcision is an important part of Judaism and I think Muslims also have male circumcision as a part of their belief system but I might be wrong on that.

 

[metis]

While I am personally opposed to male circumcision I do believe it would be wrong to ban all non-therapeutic male circumcisions. After all, male circumcision is an important part of Judaism and I think Muslims also have male circumcision as a part of their belief system but I might be wrong on that.

Within Islam, it's a recommendation but not a requirement.

 

[ZooGirl02]

Within Islam, it's a recommendation but not a requirement.

Oh okay. Thanks for telling me that Metis. I did not know that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some news to argue over....
$140-a-day fine for refusing 'brit' | The Times of Israel
What authority does a rabbinical court have over Israeli citizens?

 

[Revoltingest]

Some grisly news about the down side of circumcision....
Rabbi Sued After Baby Injured During Circumcision « CBS Pittsburgh
"Injured"? He cut the dang thing off!

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Some grisly news about the down side of circumcision....
Rabbi Sued After Baby Injured During Circumcision « CBS Pittsburgh
"Injured"? He cut the dang thing off!

Oh my.....that's terrible!

 

[Juhurka]

With all the fuss in this thread I wonder if all you liberals with your pointless new world order ideas realize that no matter what you say or do we Jews will keep doing the circumcision.

 

[Tumah]

To answer the OP:

Is it fair to say that only atheists get to decide what is moral or not?

Also, I'm kind of wondering why the OP took it as fact that circumcision is not a religious requirement based on the views of one Rabbi. I mean, its spelled out pretty clearly in Gen. 17:10 and Lev. 12:3.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To answer the OP:

Is it fair to say that only atheists get to decide what is moral or not?

Circumcision goes against principles that even the most devout religious people normally agree to. In any other context, a Jewish parent would agree that needlessly hurting babies is wrong. Applying this principle to circumcision is just a matter of logical consistency.

Also, I'm kind of wondering why the OP took it as fact that circumcision is not a religious requirement based on the views of one Rabbi. I mean, its spelled out pretty clearly in Gen. 17:10 and Lev. 12:3.

Genesis 17 requires not only that Jews be circumcised, but their servants too. I've never seen a job ad from a Jewish-owned business say "employment is conditional on a clean driver's abstract, a criminal background check, and circumcision." Have you?

Leviticus 12 requires not only that a baby boy be circumcised, but that the child's mother give a lamb and a turtledove as offerings.

Is circumcision of a son more required than circumcision of a servant? Is circumcision more required than offerings?

 

[Tumah]

Circumcision goes against principles that even the most devout religious people normally agree to. In any other context, a Jewish parent would agree that needlessly hurting babies is wrong. Applying this principle to circumcision is just a matter of logical consistency.

You are oversimplifying to make a point. Religious needs do not fall into the category of needlessness.

Genesis 17 requires not only that Jews be circumcised, but their servants too. I've never seen a job ad from a Jewish-owned business say "employment is conditional on a clean driver's abstract, a criminal background check, and circumcision." Have you?

Leviticus 12 requires not only that a baby boy be circumcised, but that the child's mother give a lamb and a turtledove as offerings.

Is circumcision of a son more required than circumcision of a servant? Is circumcision more required than offerings?

That would be funny. But really though, the verse is talking about slavery not employees. You don't buy employees. Since there is no slavery, there is no one to apply it to. Also if memory serves me correctly, it is only 1. a slave 2. in Israel 3. when the country is under Jewish Law. But I might be making a mistake there.
Similarly, there is no Temple with which to sacrifice an offering. Therefore that Law can't be fulfilled. However, there are still Jewish male children, so that Law can be fulfilled.

 

[Revoltingest]

Circumcision news....
The Associated Press

NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) -- The circumcision season among Kenya's Bukusu ethnic group brings a festive atmosphere: music, food and free-flowing beer. For the uncircumcised men from other tribes in the area, however, it is not time to party, it's time to flee.
At least 12 men from other tribes have been forcibly circumcised since the start of the circumcisions in August, according to police and local authorities. Others have sought refuge in police stations to avoid the knife's cut.

 

[dawny0826]

Circumcision news....
The Associated Press

That's just stupid.

Edit: The contents of the article.

 

[jewscout]

whatever...i was circumcised, my son was, and if I have another (G-d willing) he will as well

if you don't want to do it, or have it done to your son, that's fine too, but I really find this argument to be silly bating and trolling for a fight

 

[ametist]

muslim men get circumcized, too. If you are gonna attack people because of that, you better include muslims too..and they also wear tagiyah very much similar to kippa. MG, That too is weird.

in most muslim countries it is done right after the baby is born. Person remembers it only as much as he remembers his umbilical cord getting cut.
here is an independent article based mostly on health issues. If anybody is interested with it out of their religion that can be the only reason, I guess.

Circumcision: Get the Facts, Benefits, Risks & More

On side note, I dont think it is ok to circumcize people who are fearing from it. That can be very very traumatic. But what isnt for men in today's world? you either cope up with it or you just run away.

 

[Revoltingest]

....I really find this argument to be silly bating and trolling for a fight

This is only because you feel defensive about it.
Let go of this, & then you'll be able to see merit in the other side.
You'll realize that there's actually a conversation going on.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's just stupid.

Edit: The contents of the article.

Love the edit!

 

[jewscout]

This is only because you feel defensive about it.
Let go of this, & then you'll be able to see merit in the other side.
You'll realize that there's actually a conversation going on.

I see merit in one's desire to not circumcise their son and have already stated if that's the course they take, then more power to them

as one person already asked, why do atheists get to dictate morality? I find nothing wrong w/ circumcision and what extreme adverse medical effects of it there are seem to be on the fringes, not the norm of those who have been circumcised.

it's a matter of personal choice

 

[Revoltingest]

I see merit in one's desire to not circumcise their son and have already stated if that's the course they take, then more power to them

as one person already asked, why do atheists get to dictate morality? I find nothing wrong w/ circumcision and what extreme adverse medical effects of it there are seem to be on the fringes, not the norm of those who have been circumcised.

it's a matter of personal choice

If "advocate" is the same as "dictate", then everyone gets to dictate morality.
Convincing others to follow these dictates is the tough part.

But it is not a personal choice, since the 'beneficiary' is unaware of the choice made for him.
The issue is whether the parents are allowed to do this to the baby. At the moment,
it's widely accepted that the detriments of circumcision are minor compared to the parents'
desires, so countries choose not to interfere. It seems that the dreaded atheists aren't
dictating anything for you.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I see merit in one's desire to not circumcise their son and have already stated if that's the course they take, then more power to them

as one person already asked, why do atheists get to dictate morality? I find nothing wrong w/ circumcision and what extreme adverse medical effects of it there are seem to be on the fringes, not the norm of those who have been circumcised.

it's a matter of personal choice

But your position rejects personal choice.

AFAICT, nobody in this thread is arguing that circumcision should be abolished, only delayed. Personally, I'm arguing that circumcision should wait until the boy is old enough to decide for himself that it's really what he wants to do. Your position is that circumcision should happen even when the boy is too young to understand what it is or express that he wants it done.

My position upholds personal choice. Your position denies personal choice.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Circumcision is becoming Rare among most races in Europe. In northern Europe it has become so rare that it will probably be banned before long.
In many countries as it is not financed by the national Health Services, even those families that might have seen it as social conformity, are not having their sons circumcised.

Now that Female Circumcision is illegal in most of Europe, the whole question has been revisited.

There is no question that Jews and Muslims will resist this trend, in the same way that many Africans are resisting the ban on female circumcision. Last week the parents of a Young girl were arrested in England for having their daughter circumcised abroad. The European law covers the practice anywhere. The parents are required to protect their children from having it done, where it is done has no bearing.

As more countries ban male Circumcision, families will either have to comply, or live elsewhere to avoid criminal convictions. As of now that is not a problem for anyone, but it will become one.

The number of adults choosing to be circumcised for non medical reasons has always been minimal. I can not see it increasing just because it was not done as a boy.