France extends protests as Macron stands by pension change decision

[Stevicus]

France extends protests as Macron stands by pension change decision - UPI.com

A ninth day of strikes in France over President Emmanuel Macron's changes to the country's pension system wrought widespread disruption across the country Thursday, with trains and planes canceled and refineries blocked.

www.upi.com

Paris' Metro, bus and suburban rail services are all expected to be badly disrupted and about half of the country's high-speed TGV trains have been canceled. TER and Intercites train services are also running a reduced timetable.

The trash piles flowing over into the streets of the capital, currently estimated at 10,000 tons, were left uncollected for another day.

Directorate General for Civil Aviation said that around a third of flights in and out of Orly airport outside Paris would be affected.

This may also disrupt a planned trip by King Charles to France.

International travel is also being hit with the cross-channel Eurostar train service canceling six of Thursday's 15 scheduled services between Paris and London -- three in each direction -- one London to Brussels service and one Amsterdam to London service.

The strikes also threatened to disrupt a three-day state visit by King Charles III and Queen-consort Camilla beginning Sunday with at least one French MP calling for it to be canceled and tram drivers saying they will not transport him. The royal couple is scheduled to take a tram into the center of Bordeaux as part of a visit to inaugurate a new British Consulate in the southern city.

One may well wonder why Macron took this course of action and why he refuses to bend to what the people obviously want him to do.

Macron said that protesters' anger had been taken into account and while they had a right to take to the streets, violence was unacceptable.

Macron got his legislation to raise the national pension age from 62 to 64 through the National Assembly by using a part of the French constitution that enables the government to pass a law without a vote by MPs.

The change is opposed by trade unions and the majority of people but Macron, who has made reform of the country's generous pension system the cornerstone of his presidency, says the country cannot afford the ballooning deficits it will run up over the next 25 years as the country's population ages.

Ah, yes, the usual refrain: "We can't afford it." Even as the wealthy classes dine in exquisite luxury while hungry peasants are left out in the cold, the wealthy are claiming they "can't afford" to spare a slice of bread for a hungry person. "Let them eat cakes."

 

[ChristineM]

For the first time since this disagreement began i saw, and was stopped by pickets on my way into town. Macrons street cred has dropped below gutter level now

 

[Revoltingest]

Ah, yes, the usual refrain: "We can't afford it." Even as the wealthy classes dine in exquisite luxury while hungry peasants are left out in the cold, the wealthy are claiming they "can't afford" to spare a slice of bread for a hungry person. "Let them eat cakes."

One shouldn't presume that all a country needs do to solve
financial problems is simply take more money from the wealthy.
Sure, most of the masses would love earlier paid retirement.
They have the loudest complaint de jour. But do you believe
there'll be no negative political & economic consequences
of giving them what they demand? Why not lower the
paid retirement age to 50...to 40...to 30? One can see that
with people working less during their lifetime, someone must
pay higher taxes. And that's never limited to the wealthy.

 

[ChristineM]

someone must
pay higher taxes. And that's never rarely limited to the wealthy.

Fixed

 

[Revoltingest]

Fixed

Perhaps you fixed it for France.
Despite liberal whining about "tax reductions for the rich",
federal tax revenue increased. This was accomplished by
limiting deductions for interest & real estate taxes.

 

[ChristineM]

Perhaps you fixed it for France.
Despite liberal whining about "tax reductions for the rich",
federal tax revenue increased. This was accomplished by
limiting deductions for interest & real estate taxes.

And the UK. Conservative government just had a budget and have given fortunes back to the wealthy and nothing for the less well off.

Interestingly, it just happens to be the wealthy who vote conservative.

 

[Revoltingest]

And the UK. Conservative government just had a budget and have given fortunes back to the wealthy and nothing for the less well off.

Interestingly, it just happens to be the wealthy who vote conservative.

Many claims are made about taxation, but I find that
most people making them are just repeating what
talking heads in the news said. Tis better to become
familiar with tax codes, & find cromulent statistics
about revenue changes after tax changes.

Not criticizing you here....just blathering.

 

[Stevicus]

One shouldn't presume that all a country needs do to solve
financial problems is simply take more money from the wealthy.
Sure, most of the masses would love earlier paid retirement.
They have the loudest complaint de jour. But do you believe
there'll be no negative political & economic consequences
of giving them what they demand? Why not lower the
paid retirement age to 50...to 40...to 30? One can see that
with people working less during their lifetime, someone must
pay higher taxes. And that's never limited to the wealthy.

But how can they say (with a straight face) that they "can't afford it"? Who can't afford what?

 

[Revoltingest]

But how can they say (with a straight face) that they "can't afford it"? Who can't afford what?

Is that an actual quote?
But it could be true that there's insufficient money on hand to do it.
It appears that you assume all they need do is raise taxes.
Perhaps they see unacceptable consequences from that.

 

[sayak83]

France extends protests as Macron stands by pension change decision - UPI.com

A ninth day of strikes in France over President Emmanuel Macron's changes to the country's pension system wrought widespread disruption across the country Thursday, with trains and planes canceled and refineries blocked.

www.upi.com

This may also disrupt a planned trip by King Charles to France.



One may well wonder why Macron took this course of action and why he refuses to bend to what the people obviously want him to do.



Ah, yes, the usual refrain: "We can't afford it." Even as the wealthy classes dine in exquisite luxury while hungry peasants are left out in the cold, the wealthy are claiming they "can't afford" to spare a slice of bread for a hungry person. "Let them eat cakes."

Why should the pension age not be raised? As European population gets older with falling birth rates and as better medical facilities make it possible to be active longer, I feel pension age should be raised to 70 while keeping good medical and early retirement benefits for those who genuinely cannot work to that age due to health reasons.

 

[Stevicus]

Is that an actual quote?
But it could be true that there's insufficient money on hand to do it.
It appears that you assume all they need do is raise taxes.
Perhaps they see unacceptable consequences from that.

From the OP article: "The change is opposed by trade unions and the majority of people but Macron, who has made reform of the country's generous pension system the cornerstone of his presidency, says the country cannot afford the ballooning deficits it will run up over the next 25 years as the country's population ages."

I'm not assuming that all they need to do is raise taxes. There might be other ways of accomplishing the same goals. If the government doesn't have enough dollars (or francs) - and if raising taxes isn't feasible, then there's price controls. Or just make everything "in house," so they don't have to pay or contract with any private vendors.

 

[Stevicus]

Why should the pension age not be raised? As European population gets older with falling birth rates and as better medical facilities make it possible to be active longer, I feel pension age should be raised to 70 while keeping good medical and early retirement benefits for those who genuinely cannot work to that age due to health reasons.

For the past 200 years or so, governments have been slowly and incrementally trying to make things a little bit better for people. While it's sometimes been messy and violent, the general trend has been away from the Dark Ages and more towards Enlightenment. We don't believe that serfs or slaves deserve their lot in life anymore. We did away with slavery, sweatshops, and some of the worst abuses the rich have inflicted upon the poor. We have become more liberalized and progressives, with the apparent goal of simply trying to make life better for people.

Now, are you saying that that trend is now over? Whatever generosity and compassion governments could have before is just no longer affordable, and now we have to go backwards to an earlier time? It's okay if that's the harsh truth - I can take it. I'd just like to hear people come out and actually say it, just for the record.

 

[ChristineM]

Many claims are made about taxation, but I find that
most people making them are just repeating what
talking heads in the news said. Tis better to become
familiar with tax codes, & find cromulent statistics
about revenue changes after tax changes.

Not criticizing you here....just blathering.

I agree you are just blathering

Several breakdowns of the budget from left, centre and right news sources is available on line

 

[Revoltingest]

From the OP article: "The change is opposed by trade unions and the majority of people but Macron, who has made reform of the country's generous pension system the cornerstone of his presidency, says the country cannot afford the ballooning deficits it will run up over the next 25 years as the country's population ages."

I'm not assuming that all they need to do is raise taxes. There might be other ways of accomplishing the same goals. If the government doesn't have enough dollars (or francs) - and if raising taxes isn't feasible, then there's price controls. Or just make everything "in house," so they don't have to pay or contract with any private vendors.

Ahah! You altered the quote to make
something reasonable sound simplistic.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree you are just blathering

Several breakdowns of the budget from left, centre and right news sources is available on line

The fed's own figures are why I criticize claims
of massive tax cuts. People ignore portions of
changes that actually increase taxes.

 

[sayak83]

For the past 200 years or so, governments have been slowly and incrementally trying to make things a little bit better for people. While it's sometimes been messy and violent, the general trend has been away from the Dark Ages and more towards Enlightenment. We don't believe that serfs or slaves deserve their lot in life anymore. We did away with slavery, sweatshops, and some of the worst abuses the rich have inflicted upon the poor. We have become more liberalized and progressives, with the apparent goal of simply trying to make life better for people.

Now, are you saying that that trend is now over? Whatever generosity and compassion governments could have before is just no longer affordable, and now we have to go backwards to an earlier time? It's okay if that's the harsh truth - I can take it. I'd just like to hear people come out and actually say it, just for the record.

What has working to do with any of this?
Would you agree that 50 years ago most people entered the work force with only a 10 th grade (if not less) and, because of poor healthcare, could not work more than maybe 55 years of age. Today most people in the developed world enter the work force after college or after post graduation even (ie 8 to 10 years later than before) and because of better healthcare, remain physically fit and of sound mind well into the eighties. Why would not the govt policies reflect this reality?? Y Pension is a benefit one gets when one is too old or sick to work for himself/herself. Why would a fit 65-70 year old guy get pension ??
Common sense apart, you do understand that if people are having less children, living longer, joining the workforce later...then the actual workforce suffers a dramatic decline if retirement age is not raised?

 

[Shaul]

Because the chickens are coming home to roost, that's why.

There is no "free lunch".

 

[ChristineM]

Because the chickens are coming home to roost, that's why.

There is no "free lunch".

So the tax that people have paid throughout their employment is a free lunch?

 

[Shaul]

So the tax that people have paid throughout their employment is a free lunch?

Since the taxes they paid will not cover the benefits they will collect (not even close), how is that relevant?

 

[Estro Felino]

One shouldn't presume that all a country needs do to solve
financial problems is simply take more money from the wealthy.
Sure, most of the masses would love earlier paid retirement.
They have the loudest complaint de jour. But do you believe
there'll be no negative political & economic consequences
of giving them what they demand? Why not lower the
paid retirement age to 50...to 40...to 30? One can see that
with people working less during their lifetime, someone must
pay higher taxes. And that's never limited to the wealthy.

Honestly I couldn't care less about the wealthy.
As long as they don't steal the Seigniorage Banking from the people.
Stealing is bad. It's really bad...do you agree with this sentence... @Revoltingest?

That's why the ECB should give the European countries their monetary sovereignty back. So they can fund their pension systems.