France extends protests as Macron stands by pension change decision

[sayak83]

But European women may be one (not the only one) of the reasons why they chose Europe.
After all, we are speaking of very young celibate males in most cases.

https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ciso.12176

The paper makes none of the claims you suggest. And what is the problem with inter-racial marriages anyway???

 

[sayak83]

The labor movement has been an integral part of the overall trend towards progressivism and liberalism. If the standard of living and working conditions (to include retirement age and quality of retirement) improve, then that's a sign that society is improving and progressing. If these areas show decline, then that's an indicator that society itself is declining or moving backward. Historically, there have been periods of regression when reforms were reversed. We seem to be entering such a period now.



I would agree if you said 100 years ago, but 50 years ago, probably not.




Why not? Why shouldn't there be "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" in the land where these concepts were invented? Some military and government personnel in the U.S. can retire after only 20 or 30 years of service. Why should private sector workers have to slave away for 50 years while others get to live on easy street? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If public opinion has shifted and the West no longer supports these concepts, then all I would ask is that people be honest about it.

Keep in mind that no one should be forced to retire. If people want to keep on working and are physically fit, I see no reason not to let them.



Considering how many layoffs have taken place and the general trend towards outsourcing the past several decades, one might get the impression that there have been too many workers, giving unscrupulous exploiters an advantage due to a massive oversupply of workers.

In any case, raising the retirement age isn't really due to having a shortage of workers, but a shortage of money.

As has been said by others, the shortage is in the number of working people compared to the number of non-working people. Part of the money earned by working people goes to support the non working people. This means you MUST have a lot more working and earning people than non working people. This is no longer the case. Because people are entering the workforce later and still leaving early as before despite extended lifespan. This is not sustainable. Money is a measure of actual economic goods produced. It cannot come by just printing more. Either the economic productivity per worker has to increase rapidly or you need to have more people working. It's just math. You cannot avoid it. No ideals of principles can help you if your plans fail basic maths.
Frankly I believe work is an essential responsibility of human beings in society. If your health allows you, you should work and contribute to the society by producing useful output. This need not be just manual work, you can be self employed as well, producing music or writing books, whatever. Society should pitch in for those who are too sick, too old or too young to do this effectively. But why should you expect others to support your life and livelihood otherwise?

 

[Estro Felino]

France could lower the life expectancy for women.
That would have 2 advantages:
1) Cut the cost of supporting retirees.
2) Achieve gender equality.

You're kidding, I hope.

The paper makes none of the claims you suggest. And what is the problem with inter-racial marriages anyway???

A problem of numbers.
The number of European women is proportioned to the number of European men.

 

[sayak83]

You're kidding, I hope.

A problem of numbers.
The number of European women is proportioned to the number of European men.

You are giving nonsensical conjectures. European people also regularly settle in other parts of the world, some do not marry. Interracial marriage among 1st gen immigrants is miniscule for what you suggest to be a problem of any sort. People have been migrating to US, Canada, Australia etc for a century or more without any of this being any problem at all. Europe is no different.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You're kidding, I hope.

A problem of numbers.
The number of European women is proportioned to the number of European men.

I demand to see your race card. I don't think you are pure enough to be the correct version of an European. I bet you decent from filthy immigrant scum.

 

[Estro Felino]

I demand to see your race card. I don't think you are pure enough to be the correct version of an European. I bet you decent from filthy immigrant scum.

The topic here is France and how French people have the right to retire after they hit 60.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The topic here is France and how French people have the right to retire after they hit 60.

Yeah, but that is a social construct. Just as the idea of European or indeed French, rights and retire.

 

[Stevicus]

As has been said by others, the shortage is in the number of working people compared to the number of non-working people. Part of the money earned by working people goes to support the non working people. This means you MUST have a lot more working and earning people than non working people. This is no longer the case. Because people are entering the workforce later and still leaving early as before despite extended lifespan. This is not sustainable. Money is a measure of actual economic goods produced. It cannot come by just printing more. Either the economic productivity per worker has to increase rapidly or you need to have more people working. It's just math. You cannot avoid it. No ideals of principles can help you if your plans fail basic maths.
Frankly I believe work is an essential responsibility of human beings in society. If your health allows you, you should work and contribute to the society by producing useful output. This need not be just manual work, you can be self employed as well, producing music or writing books, whatever. Society should pitch in for those who are too sick, too old or too young to do this effectively. But why should you expect others to support your life and livelihood otherwise?

In the coming years, automation and AI will likely make more and more people redundant, so the idea of creating "make work" just because of the idea that "everyone has to work" may not really be relevant.

And no one is saying that the population should be totally idle, but shorter hours, shorter work weeks, earlier retirement? I really don't see why that should be a problem for anyone, unless we, as a society, really are regressing and going backward to an earlier form. I understand your point about math, and maybe there is no other course of action we can take, except to go backwards, if going forward is not practical or no longer a viable option.

If nothing else, I just think it would be better if the politicians simply admitted that they've grossly mismanaged and now we're in a quagmire we won't ever be able to get out of. At least, they should be honest, although I know that's unrealistic to expect from a politician.

 

[ChristineM]

The topic here is France and how French people have the right to retire after they hit 60 62.

Fixed.

Soon to be 64

 

[Estro Felino]

Fixed.

Soon to be 64

In my opinion 62 is too much. 60 should be the limit.

 

[ChristineM]

In my opinion 62 is too much. 60 should be the limit.

Your opinion is not required

 

[sayak83]

In the coming years, automation and AI will likely make more and more people redundant, so the idea of creating "make work" just because of the idea that "everyone has to work" may not really be relevant.

And no one is saying that the population should be totally idle, but shorter hours, shorter work weeks, earlier retirement? I really don't see why that should be a problem for anyone, unless we, as a society, really are regressing and going backward to an earlier form. I understand your point about math, and maybe there is no other course of action we can take, except to go backwards, if going forward is not practical or no longer a viable option.

If nothing else, I just think it would be better if the politicians simply admitted that they've grossly mismanaged and now we're in a quagmire we won't ever be able to get out of. At least, they should be honest, although I know that's unrealistic to expect from a politician.

The AI will make certain types of jobs redundant. People will not be made redundant, but yes reskilling will be required.
I think we would see a move towards shorter working hours in some sectors through either legislation or general market factors as with the introduction of AI, the focus will shift more towards high quality work by humans while the quantity can be done by automation. The pay system has also to adjust from hourly based to project based pay. So one earns based on how many projects he/she completes in a month rather than how many hours he/she actually works.

 

[Revoltingest]

You're kidding, I hope.

Oh, not at all. Earlier deaths of retirees
is a financial boon. And nothing is more
important than gender equality.

 

[blü 2]

I think that the lounge-loving banking and Freemasonic élites lost historical memory and also long-term memory. When the Freemasonic Robespierre was guillotined for failing his own people and for betraying his own people.
The French people is very vengeful.

They can even give the impression at times that they feel a lot more self-entitled than the citizens of most Western countries.

 

[Stevicus]

Oh, not at all. Earlier deaths of retirees
is a financial boon. And nothing is more
important than gender equality.

If that's the case, then why would there be such a stiff tax on cigarettes? Since smokers die sooner, they save the government quite a bit by dying early.

 

[Revoltingest]

If that's the case, then why would there be such a stiff tax on cigarettes? Since smokers die sooner, they save the government quite a bit by dying early.

I'm aware of that analysis.
But policy makers refuse to recognize it.
They start from the premise that because ciggies
cause disease, they're bad. Only research that
comports will be recognized.

Many years ago, Mrs Revolt worked on research
into benefits received by minority elderly. The
company found that they received a fair share.
This result was counter to what the Carter
administration wanted. That ended the company's
federal money.

 

[JIMMY12345]

France extends protests as Macron stands by pension change decision - UPI.com

A ninth day of strikes in France over President Emmanuel Macron's changes to the country's pension system wrought widespread disruption across the country Thursday, with trains and planes canceled and refineries blocked.

www.upi.com

This may also disrupt a planned trip by King Charles to France.



One may well wonder why Macron took this course of action and why he refuses to bend to what the people obviously want him to do.



Ah, yes, the usual refrain: "We can't afford it." Even as the wealthy classes dine in exquisite luxury while hungry peasants are left out in the cold, the wealthy are claiming they "can't afford" to spare a slice of bread for a hungry person. "Let them eat cakes."

Russia has a much higher pension retirement as has all Europe.Investments bonds etc for pensions can go up and down.Due to Liz Truss ignoring the warnings of Rishi Sunak on common sense economics she lost her PM position.The pension industry nearly crashed.
Listening to the French protesters they say tax the big rich companies.
Its the big rich companies that pay dividends that pay for their pension funds.
Also there is funding of both far and far right groups with the express purpose of sowing dissent in USA and Europe.
Rule of Investment
TBADHINGS ARE MORE LIKELY THAN GOOD

 

[Kathryn]

Most of the French people pay between 30 and 41 percent tax already.