In Socialist Europe it's the State that prints the banknotes to fund its own pension system.
Before someone stole the Seigniorage Banking from the EU member states, of course.
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France extends protests as Macron stands by pension change decision
- Thread starter Stevicus
- Start date
Before someone stole the Seigniorage Banking from the EU member states, of course.
Dont know much about tax over this side of the water do you.
Yes, tax pays penaion and many other things the government likes to spend it on.
The French retirement system is "pay-as-you-go" funded. That means taxes collect pay for the current recipients. In 1960 there were 4 tax paying workers for each retiree. Today the number is 1.7 taxpayers for each retiree. And that ratio will continue to fall: 1.5/retiree in 2033 and 1.2/retiree in 2070. The system is already in deficit. It does not collect enough revenue to cover its payments to retirees, and that deficit will continue growing. The French system will have to be adjusted. The math is clear.
A lot of countries have immigration programs specifically for employee shortages, and some have programs to incentivize having children when birth rates are too low. Why wouldn't either of these approaches be a better alternative than making people work until they're 70?
The average life expectancy in France is 79.4 years for men and 85.3 years for women, so if the retirement age became 70, the average man would have less than 10 years of retirement life, while the average woman would have barely above 15. That would essentially force people to live to work, not work to live.
And in that time the tax rate has increased and taxable income has increased while the percentage of tax that goes to pensions has decreased.
So adjust the system by putting the money back.
The average life expectancy has increased from 70 years (adjusted for child mortality) in 1960 to 82 years in 2022. People are living longer and healthier. This their ability to work has also increased. Why should the pension policy not reflect that? Is pension not for people who truly are unable to work due to their age?
Second. Yes. An aggressive immigration policy will help to keep the labor force large and young. But you have seen the huge backlash in Europe from immigration from African and Middle Eastern countries. The govt will face even greater protests if immigration rules are truly liberalized. Europeans cannot have it both ways. Either allow immigration and accept the associated ethno-religious changes in their countries...or work for longer to compensate for the collapsing number of young people in the workforce.
All these migrants who come from Africa and ME are males. What does it mean? That in 20 years the males will be much more than females, in Europe. This is what I call demographic unbalance.
No. That does not happen. The immigrants, in getting permanent work visas usually marry women from their own countries and bring them to the new country. This has been happening for 100 years in USA. There has never been any demographic imbalance at all.
No, I don't think pension should be only for people who can't work due to age. A lot of 60-year-olds can work, but if they can retire at that age and live their lives more freely, I don't see any problem.
As I said, I believe society should work to live, not live to work. In my opinion, a job is a means to an end rather than an end by itself.
I suppose that depends on whether France truly has to choose between raising the retirement age and recruiting many more immigrants. There's also the option of incentivizing having children, as I said, but I'm not sure how effective that would be in France.
Actually both women and men would migrate to the United States.
And by the way, it does seem migrants will have to get the citizenship first to be able to marry someone from their own country. Which is very difficult to get in Europe. Especially in Germany and France.
I understand both sides here ─ though personally I'm still working and the French age of retirement is a looong time behind me. I think even the new 64 is too low and in future will be even more so.
France extends protests as Macron stands by pension change decision - UPI.com
A ninth day of strikes in France over President Emmanuel Macron's changes to the country's pension system wrought widespread disruption across the country Thursday, with trains and planes canceled and refineries blocked.www.upi.com
This may also disrupt a planned trip by King Charles to France.
One may well wonder why Macron took this course of action and why he refuses to bend to what the people obviously want him to do.
Ah, yes, the usual refrain: "We can't afford it." Even as the wealthy classes dine in exquisite luxury while hungry peasants are left out in the cold, the wealthy are claiming they "can't afford" to spare a slice of bread for a hungry person. "Let them eat cakes."
In an ideal world, Macron should ask the people to vote for one or the other ─ EITHER tax increases now, constantly scaled to keep covering age pensions costs as they increase OR moving back the age of pensions.
Of course, politics and reason are natural enemies in many situations.
I think that the lounge-loving banking and Freemasonic élites lost historical memory and also long-term memory. When the Freemasonic Robespierre was guillotined for failing his own people and for betraying his own people.
The French people is very vengeful.
The taxes have increased, that's true. But pensions haven't gone down, they've gone up. France provides a pension at 74% of the working salary. Much higher than in other countries which provide around 50%. I think you should do more research. The French retirement pension system is currently unsustainable. That is simple math.
This is what they did here in Bordeaux yesterday: Bordeaux town hall set on fire in France pension protests
No comment.
No comment.
Your belief, my belief is that a solution can be found if only macron wouldi listen to those effected. Consultation could quite easily have alleviated the strikes and violence.
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The labor movement has been an integral part of the overall trend towards progressivism and liberalism. If the standard of living and working conditions (to include retirement age and quality of retirement) improve, then that's a sign that society is improving and progressing. If these areas show decline, then that's an indicator that society itself is declining or moving backward. Historically, there have been periods of regression when reforms were reversed. We seem to be entering such a period now.
I would agree if you said 100 years ago, but 50 years ago, probably not.
Why not? Why shouldn't there be "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" in the land where these concepts were invented? Some military and government personnel in the U.S. can retire after only 20 or 30 years of service. Why should private sector workers have to slave away for 50 years while others get to live on easy street? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If public opinion has shifted and the West no longer supports these concepts, then all I would ask is that people be honest about it.
Keep in mind that no one should be forced to retire. If people want to keep on working and are physically fit, I see no reason not to let them.
Considering how many layoffs have taken place and the general trend towards outsourcing the past several decades, one might get the impression that there have been too many workers, giving unscrupulous exploiters an advantage due to a massive oversupply of workers.
In any case, raising the retirement age isn't really due to having a shortage of workers, but a shortage of money.
But European women may be one (not the only one) of the reasons why they chose Europe.
After all, we are speaking of very young celibate males in most cases.
France could lower the life expectancy for women.
That would have 2 advantages:
1) Cut the cost of supporting retirees.
2) Achieve gender equality.
The article macron has used to force his reforms is 49.3 of the Constitution.
Article 49.3, allows the government to force passage of a bill without a vote unless the parliament votes a vote de censure motion of no confidence. Such a vote has little chance of passing, since it may also entail the dissolution of the legislature pending new elections.
Article 49 of the French Constitution - Wikipedia
Article 49.3, allows the government to force passage of a bill without a vote unless the parliament votes a vote de censure motion of no confidence. Such a vote has little chance of passing, since it may also entail the dissolution of the legislature pending new elections.
Article 49 of the French Constitution - Wikipedia
That would have been an ::informative:: frubal if they still existed.