free will

[Kriya Yogi]

Now, for me, free will does not exist.

I agree. I believe the only free will people have is their choice to accept and love God or not. Everything else feels like free will but I believe your actions and life are predestined and dictated according to your level of spiritual awareness and the past and present actions based on that.

 

[PolyHedral]

But surely acceptance of God would also be predestined, since it is based on past experience?

 

[thedope]

A single will is shared by all life, that is, to be.

 

[Onkara]

I agree. I believe the only free will people have is their choice to accept and love God or not. Everything else feels like free will but I believe your actions and life are predestined and dictated according to your level of spiritual awareness and the past and present actions based on that.

Hello Kriya Yogi
I think acceptance or rejection of God is also predestined. It appears in scripture (for those destined to enjoy scripture )

But Allah leads astray whom He will and guides whom He will. He is the Almighty, the Wise." - Quran 14.4 Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 14:4

"Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever."
Sri Granth: Shabad/Paurhi/Salok SGGS Page 1

"He whom the Self chooses, by him alone is It attained. To him the Self reveals Its true nature.".
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredsc...rama/katha.asp

 

[Kriya Yogi]

But surely acceptance of God would also be predestined, since it is based on past experience?

Well many saints have said that loving God is the only freewill we have but I have a hard time thinking that is not predestined also. I think it is, but I do know that loving and searching for God is the only way to break the never ending chain of Karma.

 

[Onkara]

A single will is shared by all life, that is, to be.

Nice aphroism.

There appears to be a lot more than "being" going on. Is that to be seen as arising in the foundation of being, or is there more to it. Such as choice to act.

I think that is the point our friend, BIG D is making with his/her OP.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Hello Kriya Yogi
I think acceptance or rejection of God is also predestined. It appears in scripture (for those destined to enjoy scripture )

But Allah leads astray whom He will and guides whom He will. He is the Almighty, the Wise." - Quran 14.4 Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 14:4

"Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His Command, wander aimlessly forever."
Sri Granth: Shabad/Paurhi/Salok SGGS Page 1

"He whom the Self chooses, by him alone is It attained. To him the Self reveals Its true nature.".
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredsc...rama/katha.asp

Yes I was just repeating what some wise saints have said. I'm not sure yet why they would say this but it would seem that our decision to love and accept God is also predestined as well. I think it might have something to do with meditating on God being a actionless action since it is in essence an neutral act that is meant to burn Karma and not gain anymore. The same can also be said if selfless service is truly seen as being done by God. Then the ego is not identified with the process. This is just an assumption based on my little experience.

 

[Onkara]

Yes I was just repeating what some wise saints have said. I'm not sure yet why they would say this but it would seem that our decision to love and accept God is also predestined as well. I think it might have something to do with meditating on God being a actionless action since it is in essence an neutral act that is meant to burn Karma and not gain anymore.

This is an interesting point. It appears to be free will which brings us closer to God. It could be actionless action, which clears the doubt as you say. Or it could be desire (and repulsion). Once our desire is sated by God, desire no longer remains. Instead we act within God's will.

 

[thedope]

The condition of embodiment demonstrates there are both autonomous sympathetic and parasympathetic responses.

 

[Onkara]

The condition of embodiment demonstrates there are both autonomous sympathetic and parasympathetic responses.

Then you know that your real Self is no longer limited to the body?

 

[Kriya Yogi]

This is an interesting point. It appears to be free will which brings us closer to God. It could be actionless action, which clears the doubt as you say. Or it could be desire (and repulsion). Once our desire is sated by God, desire no longer remains. Instead we act within God's will.

Yes, that is why my Guru said that true free souls or avatars that come to earth may act but since they only act in accordance to God's true will and are no longer identifying with the ego they are not gaining any Karma whatsoever. Instead they act as a mirror of God reflecting to devotees what they need to work on to find him.

 

[Onkara]

Yes, that is why my Guru said that true free souls or avatars that come to earth may act but since they only act in accordance to God's true will and are no longer identifying with the ego they are not gaining any Karma whatsoever. Instead they act as a mirror of God reflecting to devotees what they need to work on to find him.

Does your Guru explain their state of mind at this point of understanding? I ask as it would be interesting to know if so.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Does your Guru explain their state of mind at this point of understanding? I ask as it would be interesting to know if so.

I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you explain a little more?

 

[thedope]

Then you know that your real Self is no longer limited to the body?

Indeed, it's desire is for me but I must learn to master it.

 

[Onkara]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you explain a little more?

Regarding free souls, I wonder if your Guru has described their state of mind in relation to themselves, God and other people. For example, do they care about themselves, do they have doubts, do they know what they are going to do? I am speaking opening to try to avoid leading the question with my own thoughts.

Yes, that is why my Guru said that true free souls or avatars that come to earth may act but since they only act in accordance to God's true will and are no longer identifying with the ego they are not gaining any Karma whatsoever. Instead they act as a mirror of God reflecting to devotees what they need to work on to find him.

 

[Onkara]

Indeed, it's desire is for me but I must learn to master it.

IMHO Desire need not be seen as limited to or in the body. It is not created or held by the body, despite it feeling that way. The reaction to the stimulus is felt by the body, and witnessed by you. The witnessing is already master, alone it is strong enough and requires nothing. Desire simply evaporates like water on a hot stove.

 

[thedope]

I sense no opposing will. Our hopes and dreams may or may not manifest in a timely way, but what will be done is done.

 

[waitasec]

thanks for the reply--so, you're saying free will is affected by other things??

not other things, other perceptions

i would love to climb half dome at yosemite but my husband would hate it because he's afraid of heights...

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Regarding free souls, I wonder if your Guru has described their state of mind in relation to themselves, God and other people. For example, do they care about themselves, do they have doubts, do they know what they are going to do? I am speaking opening to try to avoid leading the question with my own thoughts.

When they experience total oneness with God through Nirbikalpa Samadhi, then only God dwells in their body. Their individual mind is no longer individual or separate from God. What he knows they basically know once he reveals whatever it is to them. They do not care about themselves because then God is the only existance and anything else is a delusion. They don't have doubts because past present and future and all secrets, and mysteries of life are experienced or shown from God. Also yes they know what they are going to do as they see not only their own future but everyone elses too. That is why he tells his disciples to watch out for this or that for he can see their Karma and wants to prevent it from harming their spiritual advancement. Since the God realized soul once had an ego it is still rememberred and therefore every Guru or God Realized master expresses God differently because of their former individuality. That is why some saints seem a little different than the next. I hope that clears it up. In essence their ego is purified to express God fully. So the ego is not really lost just purified as a reflection of God.

 

[Onkara]

When they experience total oneness with God ...(reduced for space) So the ego is not really lost just purified as a reflection of God.

Thanks! That is good.