Free will

[Jeremiah Ames]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?


For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

 

[JustGeorge]

I think in some cases, it comes natural.

"Please get off of my foot."

"Get the **** out of my house!" (to an intruder, ideally)

"Eat your vegetables." (to a kid you're overseeing)

Even if we both believe in free will, I don't want you stomping on my foot or robbing my house, and I feel the need to direct my kids to eat something other than Fruity Pebbles straight from the box.

If there is no free will, I can't stop myself from directing these things.

In the end, I feel its irrelevant.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?


For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

You are free to swing your first unless my face is in the way.
Free Will always has some limits in a civilized society.
Most people don't want to see you naked for example, so you should respect that.

 

[Secret Chief]

I think in some cases, it comes natural.

"Please get off of my foot."

"Get the **** out of my house!" (to an intruder, ideally)

"Eat your vegetables." (to a kid you're overseeing)

Even if we both believe in free will, I don't want you stomping on my foot or robbing my house, and I feel the need to direct my kids to eat something other than Fruity Pebbles straight from the box.

If there is no free will, I can't stop myself from directing these things.

In the end, I feel its irrelevant.

And similarly, said kid may reply "I'd love to eat the vegetables but it does not seem as if that is going to happen. Given I do not believe free will exists, we are both but observers in this scenario. I now appear to be going over to the cookie jar."

 

[Stevicus]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?


For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

I look at it more as "freedom of choice" rather than "free will," per se. Those who consider telling other people how to live their lives are exercising political choices, which may or may not be rejected by society at large (which is more a matter of collective will).

"Free will" seems more often used in a religious context, such as when people say that humans sin of their own free will and that God is not responsible for the choices made by humans. It's a contrived argument designed to maintain the fiction that God is a "loving" and "perfect" being.

Other than that, I would suppose a person's "will" would relate to the physical, neurological thought processes which take place inside the brain. Why do people make the choices they make? What makes the human mind tick?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I just consider life to be a bit like an RPG - you have a set of rules, and they may be different depending on things like where you were born. And you just kind of have the freedom to play within those rules (if lucky). Although, digital RPGs also take into account players sometimes going on quests to break those rules, too, in the name of what they perceive as peace. I guess in that case, you're operating within the rules, to try to game the rules, and change the rules as a result.

Though, I'm a bit introverted and passive rather than active, in real life.

 

[Willamena]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?

I can't think of an instance in which they would. I can't even think of an instance in which they could.

 

[Willamena]

You are free to swing your first unless my face is in the way.
Free Will always has some limits in a civilized society.
Most people don't want to see you naked for example, so you should respect that.

Unless you face is in the way, there's no need to freely swing my fist. I mean, if I was angry or something.

Free will is autonomy.

 

[JoshuaTree]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?


For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

Kind of a paradox isn't it?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I can't think of an instance in which they would. I can't even think of an instance in which they could.

Really? What if the other person was freely beating a child? Aren't you inhibiting their freedom by stopping them?
The problem with this thread is no one has defined what they mean by free will.
If it is just autonomy, you could argue that if we live in an unguided universe, no one really has it, as they would do whatever they were caused to do by each and every circumstance that came before them.

 

[shunyadragon]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?


For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

I believe most people either believe in or hope for at least some Free Will. The subject of many, many repetitive threads on this site and others. The most unlikely philosophy is the extreme of Libertarian Free Will. Some churches and Christian believers believe in Libertarian Free Will. Many believers in Islam and some churches believe in determinism by Creation and reject Free Will.

Some do argue for a determinist will that in reality we do not have Free Will at all. One warning this not the same as the scientific assumptions of the deterministic nature of our physical existence that is the foundation of Science and the Scientific Method. These are separate arguments.

The contemporary view in philosophy and science for the possibility of Free Will is the Compatibilism Philosophy for a form of limited Free Will. Daniel Clement Dennett III is the most well known proponent of one version of Comparibiliam, but not the only one. See: Daniel Dennett - Wikipedia

I support a Compatibilism Philosophy called the 'Potential of limited Free Will' which proposes that our will is predominantly deterministic by many factors such as natural law, evolutionary determinism, culture, and the nature of being human. We may choose between alternatives in our decision making process, but the freedom in these choices are constrained by numerous factors I may discuss further.

Getting out of the box is a very difficult and illusive matter, and we most often believe we get out of the box, but we simply move the box with us.

More to follow . . .

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?


For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

I don't believe in free will. I believe we have determinants that affect our agency and thereby because of that, we have no absolute freedom to act because actions are determined by something else. I would be interested in someone explaining to me how my agency is not determined by something else. For example, I'm in Jack N' the Box eating a cheeseburger. I'm on my laptop as I'm typing this. I'm not on religiousforums.com because of some random autonomous action or action independent of desire or motivation, I'm using my autonomy because for one, I'm autonomous so long as I have agency, but my autonomy is determined by factors such as boredom and curiosity of responses to my posts, two elements that have determined m will to act. I don't think we have actions outside the effects of being determined by something else.

 

[Deeje]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.

Free will is an interesting topic, especially for Christians. As a Bible believer, I see in Genesis that “free will” was not absolutely free....it came with conditions and parameters. I also understand why this is necessary because free will exercised in a selfish way can come at a great cost to someone whose will is weaker. Someone with a strong will can easily overcome the weak will of others....and this can result in much injustice and unhappiness. Bullies have manifested themselves all through history and sadly they are still with us.

Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?

It is my belief that if someone is causing harm by the exercise of their free will, then there must be safeguards in place to protect the life, rights and property of weaker ones. Otherwise despotic tyrants would rule the world and make everyone miserable.
Even in domestic situations, the stronger one often rules the weaker one to their detriment....that is the stuff of domestic violence, rape, murder, child abuse, extortion and every other mean-spirited action against another. Some countries have better safeguards than others.

For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

Again, from my perspective, only God has the right to tell us how to live. But he has always appointed human agents to recommend a better way to handle unpleasant situations, but we can only benefit from that wisdom....if we implement the advice.

God doesn’t force himself on anyone, but that doesn’t mean that humans can do as they please.....at the end of the day, I believe that we will all answer to the same judge and account to him for how we have lived this life.....he has not left us without guidance.

 

[ChristineM]

When you leave your house you can choose to turn left ot right.
You can choose to get out of bed or have another 10 minutes.
You can choose to work or not to work.

There are however constraints, perhaps the only way to reach the shops is bt turning left.
Maybe the kids have to have breakfast before school so that extra 10 minutes is a no no
Of course you need to earn money to live, work is the most usual way of earned money.

But ultimately it's your own choice. The very few things you have no free will for is taxes and death

 

[Spirit of Light]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.


Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?


For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

I believe humans are guided by Allah but are allowed to have a few choices of what to do in life. So humans can chose to do right or wrong, but facing suffering when doing immoral or harmful action words or thoughts toward others.

 

[ratiocinator]

I don't think free will in any form other than compatibilism (mentioned by @shunyadragon above) is even a self-consistent concept.

For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

There's nothing about determinism or compatibilism that rules out persuading somebody else to do or not do things. Interactions with others are influences that can shape the future you.

 

[Martin]

I don't think will is "free". Choices are made, but the options are severely constrained by ones personal circumstances, personality, culture, etc.

 

[WalterTrull]

You are free to swing your first unless my face is in the way.
Free Will always has some limits in a civilized society.
Most people don't want to see you naked for example, so you should respect that.

Typos are kinda fun. (Unless they're mine, of course.)

 

[MikeF]

I read that most people believe in free will.
Although I think it’s not a huge majority.
Why would a person who believes in free will want to prevent others from exercising their own free will?
For a person who doesn’t believe in free will, is it even possible to consider telling other people how to live their lives?

When it comes to free will, I think that many of us discount or ignore the influence and role that pre-wired instinctual behaviors play in our decision-making processes.

I will relay a anecdote from my family. My wife and two of our daughters (college age) were visiting my wife's brother and his son and daughter. After an afternoon of visiting, they decided to all go out for dinner. The female cousin (H.S. Senior) went upstairs and changed clothes. When she returned, my daughters immediately began teasing her because she had dressed up. The cousin fled upstairs and changed again.

In analyzing the behaviors exhibited, I would argue the teasing from my daughters was not a conscious, willed act on their part. It was a reflexive emotional response to their cousins change of clothes. My daughters were in shorts and t-shirt (traveling after vacationing at a lake) and their cousin's action clashed with their perceived group expectation. The cousin dressed up because in her local friend group, to dress up is the expectation of the group when one goes shopping or out for the evening. Did the cousin exert free will when changing to dress up? When the cousin fled to change again, was that expressing free will or was it a reflexive, emotional response to comply with group expectation.
The cousins are close and loving with each other. When I asked my daughters why tease her, couldn't their cousin go dressed up if she liked, they responded by saying "of course she could, we were just joking around."

I would make the argument that no one involved was making rational, well thought decisions. They were responding reflexively and emotionally before thought ever came into it.

Might one say there was a suspension of free will under these circumstances? Are we a slave to reflexive emotional responses, however? No. We can recognize them when they occur and take a beat to decide how best to respond. The trick is learning when we are responding reflexively. Will is asserted when we recognize a triggered instinctive behavior and either counter the reflexive response or make the conscious decision to roll with the reflexive response.

 

[WalterTrull]

... The trick is learning when we are responding reflexively. Will is asserted when we recognize a triggered instinctive behavior and either counter the reflexive response or make the conscious decision to roll with the reflexive response.

Yeah, I try to put an intellectual clamp on my knees to keep them from jerking. Sometimes it works.