Freemasonry

[Fluffy]

cfer - what is the reasoning behind not allowing women into the free masons? If it is seated in something other than sexism then maybe I might agree with it... I can't for the life of me think what that reason could be though.

 

[cfer]

No, unfortunately, I think you're probably right; since this is such an old organization, there probably were sexist reasons for not allowing women as members, and it is just a tradition that they're not allowed in now. Please understand that I'm not saying that that is right.

The only thing we don't let women do is attend our meetings. We've had many functions where women are invited and they even get to go into the meeting hall and everything. They're just not allowed once a meeting is called to order.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Do you know much about the history of the Masons, such as what is suggested in Dan Brown's books? Also, what kinds of things did you have to do to be initiated? Was it a sort of, "Thank you sir, may I have another." deal?

 

[Scott1]

The Rituals Of Freemasonry

 

[Scuba Pete]

Gee whilikers... I couldn't even read through the "Opening of the Lodge" Ritual.

Are those accurate?

 

[Scott1]

Gee whilikers... I couldn't even read through the "Opening of the Lodge" Ritual.

Are those accurate?

Now you see why I don't care for the group very much!

Masonry Unmasked is one of the most comprehensive books ever written about the errors of Freemasonry, and the only book ever written by a Catholic who left the Lodge. John, who was a 32nd degree Mason and expert in Masonic ritual, examines in detail the secret rituals of Freemasonry and clearly and compellingly explains why the teachings of Masonry are incompatible with the Christian faith.

 

[Doodlebug02]

I know very little about Freemasonry but knowing what I do know, I have very little if any problem with them. I also don't have a problem with Christians being Freemasons.

 

[lousyskater]

Chris,

I must say that I misspoke.... the Masons might not be anti-Catholic, but the organization is incompatible with the Christian faith.

i don't think so. i used to live in a group home that was sponsored be the masons of california, and out of all of the masons i ever met, not one of them wasn't christian. in fact, i've been to a few of these lodge meetings (and i used to be part of DeMolay which is sort of freemasonry for young boys and men) and at the begginning of every meeting they have, they start it off with a prayer out of the bible.

 

[Bondi]

The main reason attributed to tha fact that it is a male only organisation is the fact that all operative mason's were male. It was a time of sexism and the women' s place is in the home type scenario.

In efforts to move with the times many women only organisations have been formed, so with the new age of equal rights etc women can, if they want, have a version of freemasonry without the men having to negate traditions.

The History of Freemasonry is a very debated topic. All we know as fact is that Freemasonry as we know began in 1717, when four London lodges came together and formed the first Grand Lodge. Although there are reported writings prior to this time, including lodge minutes from a meeting held in the 16th century and diary entry from Ashmole stating he was being initiated. Even earlier than that you have the Cooke and Regius manuscript, both of which a poemistic writings that contain segments that resemble Freemasonry.

As for the authenticity of the Ritual posted, there are many versions, Freemasonry is practised differently around the world, each jurisdiction has there own little difference, but the underlying phylosophy of Freemasonry is the same world over.

I do not see how you can get any kind of feeling for a group by merely reading a ritual, especially if you have no idea of it's meaning, if you were to read the ritual for baptism, without knowing what it was, it doesn't read to well either.

It is easy to pass judgement and cast opinion when you do not know, find the truth and the speak up.

 

[Fluffy]

In efforts to move with the times many women only organisations have been formed, so with the new age of equal rights etc women can, if they want, have a version of freemasonry without the men having to negate traditions.

A nice attempt to force 2 obvious wrongs into a package labelled right.

 

[Bondi]

A nice attempt to force 2 obvious wrongs into a package labelled right.

An attempt to make everyone happy from where I sit, to be honest most women who complain about Freemasonry, once they are aware they can be involved with a sorority version they don't. It is merely a protest to the fact it says no women.

Clergy of the church was male only for longer than it hasn't been, people seem to forget that the Chruch has changed recently in terms of time, taking what 1000+ years, and yet people will complain that Freemasonry hasn't managed to change in less than half the time.

I guess everyone will have there faults, and if the fact they do not admit women is the only problem, then it is a valid problem, and a valid point. If the fact they have attempted to create a womens version, like I said so women can have it if they want, and so the men do not have to go back on what they have done for years, is not good enough, then I guess it is not Freemasonry the female is after, just doesn't like men only groups, again wouldn't argue with that.

At least these types of arguments are based in truth and honesty.

 

[Godless Dave]

Chris,

I must say that I misspoke.... the Masons might not be anti-Catholic, but the organization is incompatible with the Christian faith.

Freemasonry has a very formal religious system which includes a belief in God as the Grand Architect of the Universe, the immortality of the soul and the resurrection of the body. Masonry also believes that man can achieve salvation by his good works, independent of God's gift of grace. Notwithstanding its belief in God, resurrection of the body, and salvation by works, Masonry does not require its members to believe in Jesus Christ or His Church.

Freemasonry also reverences all religious writings and places these writings on par with God’s written Word found in the Bible. Thus, Masonry places all religious writings on its altar (Book of Mormon, the Vedas, Zend Avesta, the Sohar, the Kabalah, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Upanishads or any other religious writing). This is because, unlike Christianity, Freemasonry does not believe that the Bible is the revealed written Word of God. Instead, Freemasonry views all religions as equally plausible attempts to explain the truth about God which, in the end, cannot be known.

How is any of that incompatible with Christianity?

 

[Bondi]

How is any of that incompatible with Christianity?

I think the issue is because they accept all faiths, and not just Christianity is the reason behind the organisation not being classed a Christian. Freemasonry is not a Christian organisation and has never claimed to be, it is religously tolerant.

The problem is deciding if a Christian or (insert denomination here) can also be a Mason.

The BBC recently run a poll on whether they were incompatible, the results returned that over 6000 people feel the two are compatible, and only just over 600 stated it wasn't.

Last time I saw it anyway.

 

[Scott1]

How is any of that incompatible with Christianity?

I guess you should take some time and read the post again..... the answer is there:

"This is because, unlike Christianity, Freemasonry does not believe that the Bible is the revealed written Word of God."

The "unlike Christianity" part of that sentence implies that to be compatible with Christian theology, a group must believe in the Bible as the revealed Word of God.

'Instead, Freemasonry views all religions as equally plausible attempts to explain the truth about God which, in the end, cannot be known."

Sooooo.... common sense would tell you that Christianity, in general, does not view all religions as equally plausible.

Pretty easy stuff, but if you need more help, I'll be here.

Scott

 

[Bondi]

I guess you should take some time and read the post again..... the answer is there:

"This is because, unlike Christianity, Freemasonry does not believe that the Bible is the revealed written Word of God."

I don’t believe is says anywhere that it isn’t either, seeing as the topic of religion is prohibited from the lodge and all Masonic events.

The "unlike Christianity" part of that sentence implies that to be compatible with Christian theology, a group must believe in the Bible as the revealed Word of God.

This does not mean that it’s members cannot be then, as long as they believe the bible is the revealed word, they are Christian. The fraternity does not claim either way.

'Instead, Freemasonry views all religions as equally plausible attempts to explain the truth about God which, in the end, cannot be known."

Freemasonry does not apply equal plausibility; it does not apply anything with regards to religion, other than it leaves its members to follow their own faith.

Sooooo.... common sense would tell you that Christianity, in general, does not view all religions as equally plausible.

As a religious organisation they view point is required, as Freemasonry is not a religious organisation and does not discuss religion, it in turn does not have an opinion on the plausibility of any religion. It is a method of teaching moral not religion. What other religions does Christianity see as plausible then, didn’t think this would possible?

Pretty easy stuff, but if you need more help, I'll be here.

Couldn’t agree more. The answer is always simple when it is your own.

 

[Scott1]

How long have you been a Mason Bondi? Are you a 32nd level Mason/Shriner?

 

[Bondi]

How long have you been a Mason Bondi? Are you a 32nd level Mason/Shriner?

I don't remember saying I was, an assumption that is always made if you defen the craft. :tsk: What difference does it make if I am or not.

I have researched the Fraternity for years, I had similar views to most here, before I actually got of my butt and looked for myself, rather than believe everything I read and was told.

I found those that did not like masonry, hated it if you did, and those who like it didn't really care what your opinion was, as long as it was based in fact.

Gathered a load of info and believed the most consistant information.

 

[Scott1]

I don't remember saying I was, an assumption that is always made if you defen the craft. :tsk: What difference does it make if I am or not.

Sorry for the assumption. It makes a big difference to me.... sorry. My family is chock full of Masons.... my Grandfather was a 32nd degree and my Grandmother is spending her last years on earth in a Masonic retirement home in PA.... My research about the Masons is based on actual discussions with Masons in addition to print/web info. I would say that I am qualified to give an opinion on what I have heard and seen (just as you are) regardless if you don't like the information presented.

I have been on this forum long enough for people to know I don't rush to judgement about anyone or anything, so I'll let others decide which version of the "truth" is accurate.

Peace,
Scott

 

[Bondi]

Sorry for the assumption. It makes a big difference to me.... sorry. My family is chock full of Masons.... my Grandfather was a 32nd degree and my Grandmother is spending her last years on earth in a Masonic retirement home in PA.... My research about the Masons is based on actual discussions with Masons in addition to print/web info. I would say that I am qualified to give an opinion on what I have heard and seen (just as you are) regardless if you don't like the information presented.

I have been on this forum long enough for people to know I don't rush to judgement about anyone or anything, so I'll let others decide which version of the "truth" is accurate.
Scott

One: there are not versions of the truth

Two: seem the fraternity have been good to your family

Three: everyone is qualified to make an opinion, it's claiming truth that is the hard one.

Four: have you experienced the Fraternity personally, initiation, passing and raising. As it is a personal journey, different to each individual person.

Five: i have no preference to the information I read and there is no information I dislike, ever piece is an asset one way of another.

Six: you can take 100 years before making a judgement, doesn't mean your judgement is correct, the same as mine may not be.

Seven: I would prefer that no person makes any decision based on the information I post, the information I offer is a building block for each person to find the information they need to make their own decision. My info may be biased towards my own thoughts.

Eight: Information is only as accurate as it's source.

 

[hoomer]

I don't remember saying I was, an assumption that is always made if you defen the craft. :tsk: What difference does it make if I am or not.

I have researched the Fraternity for years, I had similar views to most here, before I actually got of my butt and looked for myself, rather than believe everything I read and was told.

I found those that did not like masonry, hated it if you did, and those who like it didn't really care what your opinion was, as long as it was based in fact.

Gathered a load of info and believed the most consistant information.

There is a way of ilustrating how simply researching being a mason means diddy squat....

As Mason"hood" is a spirtual path...something one DOES......
the ilustration goes like this "You can study painters for hundreds of years...watch them paint..see how they progress.....but until you pick up a brush you wi never be a painter"

I have read the Bhagavad Gita....does this make me a hindu?
I was talking to a satanist online last night....She practises NO magick....but believes in the philosophy of "satanism and the LHP (left hand path)...she'd also read Aryn Rand....

So does this make her a satanist...no...does she claim it YES

Ok in your defence you have never claimed to BE a mason...but again....masonry is something one DOES...like painting a picture...(magic is soemthing one DOES)....now ok fair enough your research may give you much info...and reveal many things.....But unless you DO....you will never know fully...it is like a person reading some sutras and thinking they know a lot about Buddhism.......better yet..its like reading about sex and remaining a virgin....and claiming to KNOW about sex.......

This does not negate anything you have learnt...masonary is interesting...albeit not that much as its largey degraded and worthess now...IMO...but thats just ME.....aND LEARNING IS NEVER A WASTE of time....at the least it will teach you what NOT to learn...

Just felt I had to say this...I realise you wil probaby be offended...my apologies.....

Its like people who think Kabbalah is a book......its not and never was.....

rant over....lol

VISITA INTERIORA TERRAE RECTIFICANDO INVENIES OCCULTUM LAPIDEM:woohoo: