From 'born again' to agnostic

[Danmac]

No, I don't think the babies and children who were born in Haiti chose that, or the thousands of impoverished Haitians without means to move elsewhere, but what would that have to do with it? Are you saying that living in Haiti is a sin, or they should have known that an earthquake would destroy their cities, or what? Is there a place on earth immune from natural catastrophes of some kind?

Are you naturally so cruel and heartless, or did your religion bring it out in you?

The man that refuses an offered umbrella should not blame the rain for getting wet.

 

[Danmac]

Living a moral life and making those that loves happy, thanks. And having more time to do it in, as well as the ability to feel compassion, rather than blame, for Haitian earthquake victims.

You don't believe in God, but for some reason you want Him to take credit for all of the suffering. Could it be that you have an anger issue with God and not a genuine unbelief? I'm only asking. This contempt for suffering thing seems to be universal amongst atheists/agnostics. Why is that?

 

[averageJOE]

I thought that scientists worldwide know about this faults and have became so clever that they could advice them were to built their cities. Why some people still built on the Saint Andres fault, is it because impoverishment?
These people try hard to migrate to the US, why can't the migrate, who stop them? other people right?

Is this the same as a Christian who's home gets destroyed because they choose to build it on the side of a hill?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

LOL Danmac your truly uninspired amature psychology is getting worse.

-Q

 

[Wotan]

So you were influenced by some really bad, I hesitate to call them teachers. So what is your point?

No, they were not "bad" teachers at all. They were sincere bible reading, God fearing, Jesus loving, sin hating, Christian folk acting from the purest of motives. They could and DO quote chapter and verse from your favorite book of myths that proves every letter of every word they believe. They were - are - concerned that all might be "saved" -even ME - by reason where possible or by fire and sword where necessary.

They are good honest Christian folk, true believers in the myth who want nothing but the "best" for the rest of us.

You are exactly like them except you lack both the moral courage and intellectual honesty to say as much.

 

[Danmac]

No, they were not "bad" teachers at all. They were sincere bible reading, God fearing, Jesus loving, sin hating, Christian folk acting from the purest of motives. They could and DO quote chapter and verse from your favorite book of myths that proves every letter of every word they believe. They were - are - concerned that all might be "saved" -even ME - by reason where possible or by fire and sword where necessary.

They are good honest Christian folk, true believers in the myth who want nothing but the "best" for the rest of us.

You are exactly like them except you lack both the moral courage and intellectual honesty to say as much.

And Hitler was sincere when he thought he was doing the world a service by exterminating Jews. Sincerity doesn't equal proper

 

[Wotan]

Were they "Cristian" or not? And not on what basis do you make that judgment?

 

[kingdombuilder]

I was unfortunate enough to have been brought up in a fundamentalist Christian home (pentecostal). The pressure to get 'saved' was great even from a young age.

- I can understand why the "pressure" would be great since if the claims are true then it literally would make all the diffrence for a person in how they ultimately decided on the matter wouldn't it? However I do object to the time and way your relatives went about it...more on that below.

I was told at six years old that if Jesus came I would be left behind, which of course is abusive. I had a sadistic grandmother who took pleasure in telling me from the age of two about the tortures of hell for naughty little girls like me!

-Your grandmother was wrong...though I am sure she had very good intentions in what she told you. There is clearly an age of accountability presented in the Bible and a 2 year old is not at that age, not even close (see the account of what happened to David's baby when it died for example). No 2 year old or anyone else under the age of accountablity will be in Hell. That age is diffrent for each individual as well. For some that age may never come...i.e. the mentally handicapp who are unable to truely understand and make a clear decision one way or another.

I held out until I was eleven before giving into the pressure and 'giving my heart to Jesus'! I was even devout for a while and embarrassingly trotted out the cliches so beloved of fundamentalist Christians.

- But it must be asked...why did you "give your heart to Jesus?"

However, before long the doubts assailed themselves overwhelmingly, and thankfully by the time I married at 19 my faith slipped away, which was a relief. I am firmly of the opinion that the fundamentalist Christian dogma 'only the saved go to heaven the rest to hell', is a silly nonsense and can be very abusive too.

-What "doubts assailed" you that caused your "faith to slip away?" Perhaps you have answered this in other posts on this thread so let me continue reading...

 

[Danmac]

LOL Danmac your truly uninspired amature psychology is getting worse.

-Q

I must be evolving in the wrong direction.

 

[Danmac]

Were they "Cristian" or not? And not on what basis do you make that judgment?

Telling a man that he may pay with apples, when the debtor requires oranges will not get the debt paid no matter how many apples he or she sincerely gives.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I must be evolving in the wrong direction.

Pffff if you knew anything, you'd know it was devolving.

:yes:

-Q

 

[Wotan]

Telling a man that he may pay with apples, when the debtor requires oranges will not get the debt paid no matter how many apples he or she sincerely gives.

What meaningless gibberish is THIS?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

What meaningless gibberish is THIS?

It's a danmac'ism.

He hopes that if he confuses us enough he will win the debate.

Luckily most of us have an IQ over 10

 

[Autodidact]

Are you saying that living a moral life shorten your life? or prevent people from living an abundant charitable life?

No, how on earth did you get that from my post?

I have great compassion for these people, my church have great compassion for them and do what they can to help.

I'm confused. I thought you were blaming them for what befell them.

Do the Haitians babies or even their ancestors have choice? I thought that scientists worldwide know about this faults and have became so clever that they could advice them were to built their cities.

Not exactly. There are faults under many of the world's largest cities.

Why some people still built on the Saint Andres fault, is it because impoverishment?

There are risks everywhere: earthquake, flood, tornado, hurricane. You have to live somewhere. Great God you got there, by the way.

These people try hard to migrate to the US, why can't the migrate, who stop them? other people right?

Immigration laws, mostly.

 

[Autodidact]

What have you done for them?
The Church has done plenty!:shout

What I could, but that's not the point. The point is, are the Haitians to blame for the suffering they experienced?

 

[Autodidact]

So you were influenced by some really bad, I hesitate to call them teachers. So what is your point?

Do you disagree with what he was taught? In what way? It sounds like pretty basic Christian doctrine to me.

 

[Autodidact]

The man that refuses an offered umbrella should not blame the rain for getting wet.

And exactly how did a little Haitian baby "refuse an umbrella?" How is the baby to blame for its own suffering and death?

Are you naturally cruel and heartless? Or is it the fault of the same religion that brings that out in emiliano?

 

[Autodidact]

You don't believe in God, but for some reason you want Him to take credit for all of the suffering.

How did you get that from my post? My problem is with your belief system. Apparently you believe that little children are to blame for the disease and catastrophe they endure.

Could it be that you have an anger issue with God and not a genuine unbelief? I'm only asking.

Could it be that you have an insecurity issue that makes you happier believing you have an invisible friend? I'm only asking.

This contempt for suffering thing seems to be universal amongst atheists/agnostics. Why is that?

Uh, cuz suffering is bad, and I feel compassion for people who have to endure it, not blame.

But please, do go on to explain exactly how a little Christian Haitian baby is to blame for having a building fall on it. I'm fascinated.

 

[Autodidact]

Telling a man that he may pay with apples, when the debtor requires oranges will not get the debt paid no matter how many apples he or she sincerely gives.

Furthermore, dancing on the back of an elephant does not put money in the bank, and shoveling air with a fork does not prevent forest fires.

 

[QuestionQ]

I think you're so right about the abusive element to the way some people use religion to try to shape, mis-shape and taunt children, and it goes on into adulthood as well with the Church in all sorts of awful ways. I was raised in an entirely non-religious household, then 'found God' when I went to university, then 'lost' him/ her/ it again somewhere along the way thereafter. The thing that really gets me is that ever since, their attitudes have permeated my attempts to think honestly and seriously about spiritual matters because of that fear element. Why do they feel the need to use fear and threats to try to make people share their views?!