From where did the "wives" of Cain and Abel come?

[Hockeycowboy]

THE BIBLE IS CLEAR, Adam the first man with his wife produce children "in" the Garden without sin, before they had children "outside" the garden in sin. this is where the sons of God in chapter 6 comes from.

for there are two lines from Adam. a fallen line ..... us, (which came from outside the garden). and a unfallen line .... the sons of God, without sin (from within the garden). other words the save and the unsave meet, just as today.

PICJAG.

Romans 5:12 says “all” men die, because of Adam’s sin.

“Sons of God” are referring to angels...Job 1:6 & Job 38:7.
They are the angels spoken of in Jude 1:6-7, likened to those in Sodom and Gomorrah who had ‘unnatural sexual desires’...and the “angels who sinned”, mentioned by Peter at 2 Peter 2:4, just before he mentions the Flood in vs.5.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

follow up on the sons of God.
Let’s move on to Job 1:6 & Job 2:1. Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them”. Here, some say that this presentation was in heaven of the angles. Now Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD”. they came together and presented themselves before the LORD. was this in heaven? NO, it was here on Earth. this is nothing unusual, Joshua 24:1 "And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God”. this presenting of the heads of Israel was on earth, and not in heaven. Likewise, the sons of God in Job 1:6, and 2:1 was “earth born” men/sons of God who presented themselves before God here on PLANET EARTH. One very important scripture also in the book of Job as to who a son of God is was revealed to us clearly, about Job himself and his faithful friends. listen, Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. if one will read, starting at Job 1:1 we would know that this is speaking of the man Job. in verse 3 the word “Men” there is the Hebrew word, H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons as in Genesis 6. BINGO, but one might say these are not sons of God “Ben HaElohim. Let’s stop here and think about something. What is the subject here? Job and his friends presenting themselves before God. Is this strange that Satan came among them? No, it has happened before. Scripture, Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”. Here Adam and Eve are the children of God, HERE ON EARTH. the term H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons, But what’s so interesting is the use of words in expressing who Job was. Notice the verse states, “so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. Here “man”, and “men” are used in the same verse. Why didn’t the bible use the Hebrew word, H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh (en-oshe') n-m. for men? It means,
אֲנָשִׁים 'enowsh (en-oshe') [plural]
1. (properly) a mortal (and thus differing from the more dignified H120).
2. (hence) a man in general (singly or collectively).

Looking at definition #1, was not Job a mortal man? And why not use H376 אִישׁ 'iysh (eesh) n-m or אִישִׁים 'iysh (eesh) plural for men of the east instead of “sons”/ H1121 בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') in the plural. H376 אִישׁ 'iysh means a man as an individual or a male person. It is the contracted for H582, Which simply means a mortal or a man in general. STOP, THIS JUST TOLD US JOB NOR HIS FRIENDS WERE NOT JUST MORTAL MEN IN GENERAL. but have characteristics or the character of God. By using the definition of H1121, instead of H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh, that without a doubt is saying something and making a statement about Job and his friends that is not made by men in general. No, this man Job is a son of God, let’s see it clearly. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”. there were some men “AFTER” Adam who did not sin as he did. Now I wonder who some of those men were?
so the term "son of God" is and are applied to humans. it's a title, Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
so the scriptures bright as day tells us no angel at any time ... STOP, is Genesis 6 a time? yes, so the sons of God there are not angels. case closed on angels as sons of God.

PICJAG.

Your understanding is too convoluted...

In Job 1, God asks Satan, “Where have you come from?”

What is Satan’s reply? “From walking about in the Earth.”

This event - of God speaking to Satan - did not occur on Earth...if so, Satan would have said, “I’ve been here, on Earth.”

It was in Heaven where this conversation took place.

The sons of God are angels, good and bad. The Jewish Bible writers knew that.

(The angels of Genesis 6:1-4, taking women “all whom they chose”, acted like gods...and from this reality came the myths of Ancient Greece, Rome, etc., where the common thread is gods cohabiting w/ human females, producing powerful offspring.
In 2 Peter 2:4, the Apostle mentions “angels that sinned”, providing no further explanation...neither does Jude @ Jude 1:6-7, who wrote that some “angels....did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode”, and ‘like’ Sodom & Gomorrah, committed “gross sexual sins” and went after “strange flesh”. Why didn’t Peter and Jude explain who these were? Because their readers knew they meant the “sons of God “ prior to the Flood.)

The Bible — all of it, together — provides the answers we need.

 

[sooda]

I never quite understand what these sort of comments are meant to imply. Abram was from UR, he was a Chaldean in the very region where the events of Genesis and the flood took place.
That the Enuma Elish and the Biblical account have significant points of similarity is to be expected as the Babylonian myth is based on a corruption of the Genesis account kept pure through Abraham's line and not vice versa.[/QUOTE

There was no Ur of the Chaldean at the time of Abraham.

 

[sooda]

follow up on the sons of God.
Let’s move on to Job 1:6 & Job 2:1. Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them”. Here, some say that this presentation was in heaven of the angles. Now Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD”. they came together and presented themselves before the LORD. was this in heaven? NO, it was here on Earth. this is nothing unusual, Joshua 24:1 "And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God”. this presenting of the heads of Israel was on earth, and not in heaven. Likewise, the sons of God in Job 1:6, and 2:1 was “earth born” men/sons of God who presented themselves before God here on PLANET EARTH. One very important scripture also in the book of Job as to who a son of God is was revealed to us clearly, about Job himself and his faithful friends. listen, Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. if one will read, starting at Job 1:1 we would know that this is speaking of the man Job. in verse 3 the word “Men” there is the Hebrew word, H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons as in Genesis 6. BINGO, but one might say these are not sons of God “Ben HaElohim. Let’s stop here and think about something. What is the subject here? Job and his friends presenting themselves before God. Is this strange that Satan came among them? No, it has happened before. Scripture, Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”. Here Adam and Eve are the children of God, HERE ON EARTH. the term H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons, But what’s so interesting is the use of words in expressing who Job was. Notice the verse states, “so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. Here “man”, and “men” are used in the same verse. Why didn’t the bible use the Hebrew word, H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh (en-oshe') n-m. for men? It means,
אֲנָשִׁים 'enowsh (en-oshe') [plural]
1. (properly) a mortal (and thus differing from the more dignified H120).
2. (hence) a man in general (singly or collectively).

Looking at definition #1, was not Job a mortal man? And why not use H376 אִישׁ 'iysh (eesh) n-m or אִישִׁים 'iysh (eesh) plural for men of the east instead of “sons”/ H1121 בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') in the plural. H376 אִישׁ 'iysh means a man as an individual or a male person. It is the contracted for H582, Which simply means a mortal or a man in general. STOP, THIS JUST TOLD US JOB NOR HIS FRIENDS WERE NOT JUST MORTAL MEN IN GENERAL. but have characteristics or the character of God. By using the definition of H1121, instead of H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh, that without a doubt is saying something and making a statement about Job and his friends that is not made by men in general. No, this man Job is a son of God, let’s see it clearly. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”. there were some men “AFTER” Adam who did not sin as he did. Now I wonder who some of those men were?
so the term "son of God" is and are applied to humans. it's a title, Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
so the scriptures bright as day tells us no angel at any time ... STOP, is Genesis 6 a time? yes, so the sons of God there are not angels. case closed on angels as sons of God.

PICJAG.

Nice addition of the camels.

 

[Moz]

There was no Ur of the Chaldean at the time of Abraham.

I have a pretty good grasp on the ancient world and i can think of no response to such a claim.

 

[sooda]

There was no Ur of the Chaldean at the time of Abraham.

I have a pretty good grasp on the ancient world and i can think of no response to such a claim.

It didn't exist because the river changed course. Look at the dates.

 

[101G]

Why are you not willing to consider what I write?
I wrote it for you to consider - you asked me to. I did, so you can step through it and tell me which parts of scripture you disagree with, and why, or what part I wrote does not agree with scripture. Thank you.

I get the feeling you did not read it through. Am I correct @101G ?

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, I did consider what you wrote. did I say you were Right, or did I say you were wrong? no. I read what you posted and in consideration with what the bible states it didn't add up. so I aske that we go step by step. and examine what you say one point at a time. now if that's not consideration I don't know what is.

but you stated,

Therefore, from Genesis 2:3-25 what is discussed, is not what God is now doing, but it is recounting what God did, during the six creative days. It is a history. Giving a few of the details, of events in the garden of Eden.

but you then stated this,"Notice the sequence of events.In Genesis 1:26-28, the male and female are created. God does not say how he did it, nor does he give any details on anything... he just described his creative events.

but in your Speculating, you said this, "It's possible God could have been creating animals after creating Eve, who arrive very late after. Or Eve might have been the last creation. The Bible does not say". that makes no sense, when compaired to what you said before. THAT'S WHY I SAID LET'S TAKE THIS ONE STEP AT A TIME.

now you are correct in that chapter 2 of Genesis is a detail account of chapter 1, congratulations, but your chronological order of events are not adding up. now would you like to discuss these chronological order of events in their proper order?

your choice.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

The old saying is true I guess....”a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”.

No matter what is PUT ON THE TABLE from the scriptures, you have your own convoluted explanation to justify your position.That's OK.....you can believe as you wish, but you do not know that it is the holy spirit inspiring you if you are the only one who is blessed with this knowledge.....who are your brothers? Christians cannot exist in isolation. They have to be more than a single voice on an internet forum.

No point in circular arguments. Logically your spin on the scriptures requires more credulity than mine. I have the scriptural reasons for Christ’s ransom sacrifice and your scenario does not fit it. I guess we will all find out soon enough.

Incidentally, can you tell me why you reference older versions of scripture? (they are now inaccurate and outdated translations) With the “thees, thous, untos, etc.... do you speak archaic English? Neither do most people.

Do you believe in immortality of the soul......the trinity......or a hell of eternal torment?

first thanks for the reply, second, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.". so as said if I post something, and have scripture backing it up and you don't agree with it the it's your responsibility as a child of God to reprove me and correct me by scripture. now as if the Holy Spirit is in me, I'm like my brother Paul, 1 Corinthians 7:40 "But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God."

ncidentally, can you tell me why you reference older versions of scripture? (they are now inaccurate and outdated translations) With the “thees, thous, untos, etc.... do you speak archaic English? Neither do most people.

the KJV is coded, and loaded with informatation. and some of these archaic word are loaded with revelation. many breakthroughs cames as a result of look up what these old english words ment in that time. this is why so many Millennium bible readers are mislead. and tell you the truth many arguments come up because of these very late or new translation. I have caught a many of these new translation bible readers with their own new translation. see when one tell a lie here, well over there they need to cover the first lie, and that's when they get caught. as you said, "sooner or later what's been done in the dark will come into the light and will be uncovered.

you asked, "Do you believe in immortality of the soul.". no, not outside of Christ JESUS , supportive scripture, A. New Testament, Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." B. Old Testament, Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." so, if its "destroyed" or "dies" then it's not ETERNAL/IMMORTAL

also you asked, "Do you believe in the trinity". NO, supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" EQUAL "with" means he's no second person. he's ONE person "Diversified", meaning he's the equal "SHARE" of himself in Flesh. supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (Spirit, without Flesh) and the offspring (Spirit, with flesh) of David, and the bright and morning star."
understand me clearly, I AM a "Diversified Oneness", NOT a Oneness as the UPC teaches and a fwe others, no I'm totally different, we are holy, as our Lord commanded, "be ye holy for I AM Holy". we teach that the Holy Spirit (JESUS) is the ONE true God who shared himself/manifested himself in flesh, hence the titles "Father" the Holy Spirit without flesh/the ROOT, and the title "Son", the Holy Spirit SHARED in Flesh/manifested as a man, the OFFSPRING. I believe totaly without a doubt in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Romans 5:12 says “all” men die, because of Adam’s sin

first thanks for your reply, second let's see. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
this from the fallen line of Adam, so some didn't sin but yet died. now this, Hebrews 7:2 "To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;" Hebrews 7:3 "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually." Hebrews 7:4 "Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils."
Melchisedec was a man, verse 4 clearly states that. yes, a man from Adam unfallen line.

“Sons of God” are referring to angels...Job 1:6 & Job 38:7.
They are the angels spoken of in Jude 1:6-7, likened to those in Sodom and Gomorrah who had ‘unnatural sexual desires’...and the “angels who sinned”, mentioned by Peter at 2 Peter 2:4, just before he mentions the Flood in vs.5.

see post #134.

 

[101G]

Nice addition of the camels.

thanks, so you picked up on that. check this out. Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”
what do these verses sound like to you? Deuteronomy 16:13 "Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:" Deuteronomy 16:14 "And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates." Deuteronomy 16:15 "Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD shall choose: because the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice." Deuteronomy 16:16 "Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:" Deuteronomy 16:17 "Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee."

ok sooda pick up on this. How many sons did Job have? answer, "seven" Job 1:2 "And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters."

How much "sheep", did job have, Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep.

now How many Daughters did he have? as stated above, "Three", now, and three thousand camels,

now what was they doing right at the beginning of the chapter 1. Job 1:4 "And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them." Job 1:5 "And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually."

Job was keeping the feasts, of weeks, and of tabernacles, ain't that something.

PICJAG

 

[Tumah]

follow up on the sons of God.
Let’s move on to Job 1:6 & Job 2:1. Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them”. Here, some say that this presentation was in heaven of the angles. Now Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD”. they came together and presented themselves before the LORD. was this in heaven? NO, it was here on Earth. this is nothing unusual, Joshua 24:1 "And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God”. this presenting of the heads of Israel was on earth, and not in heaven. Likewise, the sons of God in Job 1:6, and 2:1 was “earth born” men/sons of God who presented themselves before God here on PLANET EARTH. One very important scripture also in the book of Job as to who a son of God is was revealed to us clearly, about Job himself and his faithful friends. listen, Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. if one will read, starting at Job 1:1 we would know that this is speaking of the man Job. in verse 3 the word “Men” there is the Hebrew word, H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons as in Genesis 6. BINGO, but one might say these are not sons of God “Ben HaElohim. Let’s stop here and think about something. What is the subject here? Job and his friends presenting themselves before God. Is this strange that Satan came among them? No, it has happened before. Scripture, Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”. Here Adam and Eve are the children of God, HERE ON EARTH. the term H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) which means sons, But what’s so interesting is the use of words in expressing who Job was. Notice the verse states, “so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east”. Here “man”, and “men” are used in the same verse. Why didn’t the bible use the Hebrew word, H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh (en-oshe') n-m. for men? It means,
אֲנָשִׁים 'enowsh (en-oshe') [plural]
1. (properly) a mortal (and thus differing from the more dignified H120).
2. (hence) a man in general (singly or collectively).

Looking at definition #1, was not Job a mortal man? And why not use H376 אִישׁ 'iysh (eesh) n-m or אִישִׁים 'iysh (eesh) plural for men of the east instead of “sons”/ H1121 בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') in the plural. H376 אִישׁ 'iysh means a man as an individual or a male person. It is the contracted for H582, Which simply means a mortal or a man in general. STOP, THIS JUST TOLD US JOB NOR HIS FRIENDS WERE NOT JUST MORTAL MEN IN GENERAL. but have characteristics or the character of God. By using the definition of H1121, instead of H582 אֱנוֹשׁ 'enowsh, that without a doubt is saying something and making a statement about Job and his friends that is not made by men in general. No, this man Job is a son of God, let’s see it clearly. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come”. there were some men “AFTER” Adam who did not sin as he did. Now I wonder who some of those men were?
so the term "son of God" is and are applied to humans. it's a title, Hebrews 1:5 "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
so the scriptures bright as day tells us no angel at any time ... STOP, is Genesis 6 a time? yes, so the sons of God there are not angels. case closed on angels as sons of God.

PICJAG.

A number of rhetorical questions here are answered wrongly due to your lack of familiarity with Hebrew.
For instance "enowsh" is only ever used for the collective mankind. "Anashim" (the plural of enowsh) is perhaps the most frequently used word to refer to many people.
"Iysh" is the common way to refer to an individual. "Iyshim" is used only about a handful of times in the entire Tanach to refer to a plurality of men.
"Ben" or "bnei" means "son of" and is also used for the people who populate a certain area or land.

An example of some of the above:
Ex. 16:15
"And the sons of (bnei) Israel saw; and [each] man (iysh) said to his brother..."
Psa. 8:5
"What is man (enowsh) that we should recall him; and son of (bnei) man that we should think of him."

 

[101G]

A number of rhetorical questions here are answered wrongly due to your lack of familiarity with Hebrew.
For instance "enowsh" is only ever used for the collective mankind. "Anashim" (the plural of enowsh) is perhaps the most frequently used word to refer to many people.
"Iysh" is the common way to refer to an individual. "Iyshim" is used only about a handful of times in the entire Tanach to refer to a plurality of men.
"Ben" or "bnei" means "son of" and is also used for the people who populate a certain area or land.

An example of some of the above:
Ex. 16:15
"And the sons of (bnei) Israel saw; and [each] man (iysh) said to his brother..."
Psa. 8:5
"What is man (enowsh) that we should recall him; and son of (bnei) man that we should think of him."

first thanks for the reply, but nope you missed my point. is enowsh a mortal man yes or no?

PICJAG.

 

[nPeace]

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, I did consider what you wrote. did I say you were Right, or did I say you were wrong? no. I read what you posted and in consideration with what the bible states it didn't add up. so I aske that we go step by step. and examine what you say one point at a time. now if that's not consideration I don't know what is.

but you stated,

but you then stated this,"Notice the sequence of events.In Genesis 1:26-28, the male and female are created. God does not say how he did it, nor does he give any details on anything... he just described his creative events.

but in your Speculating, you said this, "It's possible God could have been creating animals after creating Eve, who arrive very late after. Or Eve might have been the last creation. The Bible does not say". that makes no sense, when compaired to what you said before. THAT'S WHY I SAID LET'S TAKE THIS ONE STEP AT A TIME.

now you are correct in that chapter 2 of Genesis is a detail account of chapter 1, congratulations, but your chronological order of events are not adding up. now would you like to discuss these chronological order of events in their proper order?

your choice.

PICJAG.

Usually, when a poster responds to a post, they address each point the poster made.
So for example, they may say, "You said A, but according to this, B."
You are free to address the post, in anyway you want, but when, in response, you ask me to address what you stated before... which I just took time to do, then I don't understand what you really want.

You really did not give me any indication as to what my response meant to you. You basically said, "but you said... Now let's look at what I say... and look at what I say, step by step." ...and you go on to repeat what you said before. How is that a discussion?

That's more like a preaching format to me. "This is what the Bible says, and it is clear - Step #1, Step #2, Step #3. Now if you don't understand that, go pray the lord give you holy spirit like I have, so you can understand like I do." That's what I am getting... especially if I ask questions. That's not a discussion, is it.

I'm trying to have a discussion, believe me.
Let me try again then.
Genesis 1:26-28 is where it says God created the man and woman. This is on day six, when he also created domestic animals, creeping animals, and wild animals..
Are we in agreement here? It would seem not, because you say, day three.
However, I read day six in the Bible, not day three. So do you disagree that the Bible says God created the man on day six? Can you explain why, please?

If that's not good for discussion, then feel free to explain how what I said in my post, is or is not in agreement with what the Bible says, or how you can reconcile what you say, with the Bible account.

 

[Tumah]

first thanks for the reply, but nope you missed my point. is enowsh a mortal man yes or no?

PICJAG.

Naturally. All those terms refer to mortal men.

 

[Deeje]

first thanks for the reply, second, 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.". so as said if I post something, and have scripture backing it up and you don't agree with it the it's your responsibility as a child of God to reprove me and correct me by scripture. now as if the Holy Spirit is in me, I'm like my brother Paul, 1 Corinthians 7:40 "But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God."

This seems to be the problem here.....how do you know that you have the Holy Spirit guiding your thinking and interpretation?

The first century disciples and apostles had the gifts of the spirit to identify them.....what do you have apart from words that contradict what the Bible says in so many ways.

Do you understand the mechanics of Christ's ransom? If you do, the you would understand why your two lines of descent from Adam are nonsense. This is your interpretation of scripture.

the KJV is coded, and loaded with informatation. and some of these archaic word are loaded with revelation. many breakthroughs cames as a result of look up what these old english words ment in that time. this is why so many Millennium bible readers are mislead. and tell you the truth many arguments come up because of these very late or new translation. I have caught a many of these new translation bible readers with their own new translation. see when one tell a lie here, well over there they need to cover the first lie, and that's when they get caught. as you said, "sooner or later what's been done in the dark will come into the light and will be uncovered.

Who said it's coded and that you alone have been given this knowledge to crack the code? I think perhaps you have watched too many Hollywood versions of events.

The original language words are now better understood than they were when the older archaic English versions were printed. The KJV itself has revisions you know. Knowledge grows, it does not stagnate.

you asked, "Do you believe in immortality of the soul.". no, not outside of Christ JESUS , supportive scripture, A. New Testament, Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." B. Old Testament, Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." so, if its "destroyed" or "dies" then it's not ETERNAL/IMMORTAL

What is the soul in the Hebrew Scriptures?

also you asked, "Do you believe in the trinity". NO, supportive scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" EQUAL "with" means he's no second person. he's ONE person "Diversified", meaning he's the equal "SHARE" of himself in Flesh. supportive scripture, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (Spirit, without Flesh) and the offspring (Spirit, with flesh) of David, and the bright and morning star."

Ah so you believe that Jesus is God then?

Existing in God's "form" simply means being of the same substance as the Creator, like all spirit beings are. The pre-human Jesus is a creation of his Father who is his 'begetter'. (Colossians 1:15-17; Revelation 3:14) There is only one true God...the Father. (John 17:3)

understand me clearly, I AM a "Diversified Oneness", NOT a Oneness as the UPC teaches and a fwe others, no I'm totally different, we are holy, as our Lord commanded, "be ye holy for I AM Holy". we teach that the Holy Spirit (JESUS) is the ONE true God who shared himself/manifested himself in flesh, hence the titles "Father" the Holy Spirit without flesh/the ROOT, and the title "Son", the Holy Spirit SHARED in Flesh/manifested as a man, the OFFSPRING. I believe totaly without a doubt in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

Again you use the expression "we teach"....who is "we"?

So you have a twisted version of the trinity by making Jesus the holy spirit? Interesting....

Again you betray no knowledge of the mechanics of Christ's ransom. God becoming a man is overkill on the meaning of redemption. Like using a thousand cans of bug spray on one mosquito.....it was the other way around....one perfect life was offered for millions of humans sold into sin through no fault on their part.

Why would God need to become manifest as a human? He has servants to carry out his will....Jesus is the foremost one of them.

How is it that on his return to heaven, Jesus can still speak about his God? He refers to "my God" 4 times in one verse. (Revelation 3:12) Can God worship himself?

I see such a convoluted path to your conclusions but I wonder who shares your views.....do you have a brotherhood who all believe the same things that you do? (1 Corinthians 1:10)

 

[101G]

Genesis 1:26-28 is where it says God created the man and woman. This is on day six, when he also created domestic animals, creeping animals, and wild animals..
Are we in agreement here? It would seem not, because you say, day three.
However, I read day six in the Bible, not day three. So do you disagree that the Bible says God created the man on day six? Can you explain why, please?

Ok, I don’t agree with that assessment. but I'll used what you said, (dscuss), iand see if we can get some mutural understang. if what you said or stated from the bible is true then you have a chronological event disorder, and here’s why. God Created the Man and Woman (male and Female) on day 6, understand? , For the Man was made First and then the animals was made and then the Woman. Scripture, Genesis 2:18 "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." (notice the man was alone). Genesis 2:19 "And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." (STOP, the man was alone, and because he was alone God formed the animals and brought them to the man. Did you get that the man was here before the animals, and Eve was not yet brought forth). let's continue, Genesis 2:20 "And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."

Remember the animals was formed after Adam, and the woman was not yet on the scene. read those scriptures again.

Now Eve, the woman is formed and brought forth, why? Because no suitable help meet in the animals was found. Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;" Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.". So the Man was here before the animals, and then the woman came after the animals.

So, what was “created” not Formed but created on day 6? the GENDER of the Man and the Woman. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." so it was the sexes that was “CREATED” on day 6.

This is why I couldn’t agree with your assessment. I ask you to please read chapter 1 at when the animals was made, then read the detail account when they was formed in chapter 2 and when the woman was brought forth in chapter 2.

This is not preaching, but getting to the truth by revelation. Now in this discussion I brought forth why I couldn’t agree with your reply. Now you have the option to agree with the scriptures, or reprove me, and correct me with the scriptures. Now that’s a discussion.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Naturally. All those terms refer to mortal men.

Thank, that was my point.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

This seems to be the problem here.....how do you know that you have the Holy Spirit guiding your thinking and interpretation?

The first century disciples and apostles had the gifts of the spirit to identify them.....what do you have apart from words that contradict what the Bible says in so many ways.

Do you understand the mechanics of Christ's ransom? If you do, the you would understand why your two lines of descent from Adam are nonsense. This is your interpretation of scripture.

First thanks for the reply, second, if what I say is not true is will fail. But if what I speak is true it will stand. Anyone’s doctoral beliefs if not test, are you then sure in your belief?. remember “the gates of hell cannot prevail against the church, which are you and I, the church.

Now as for having the Spirit, as as well as the first century disciples and apostles, Paul said, 1 Corinthians 7:40 "But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God."
And I think the problem is this, “ye have not because ye ask not”.
As for the fallen line from Adam, who by the way is a son of God, just fallen, we need to be born again. Because the children in the garden was born alive to God vs. The children born in sin, dead (spiritually) to God, hence the redemption.

Who said it's coded and that you alone have been given this knowledge to crack the code? I think perhaps you have watched too many Hollywood versions of events.

The original language words are now better understood than they were when the older archaic English versions were printed. The KJV itself has revisions you know. Knowledge grows, it does not stagnate.

When we say “coded” … sealed, not known, hidden. scripture,Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered." Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:" Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned."

See, the educated, as well as the uneducated is in the same boat. We all need the Holy Spirit for guidance to unlock the scriptures..1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
as for new translations, I'll pass....
Again, ask God for the revelation. For we have not because we ask not.

What is the soul in the Hebrew Scriptures?

a LIVING CREATURE, just look in the mirror

Ah so you believe that Jesus is God then? Existing in God's "form" simply means being of the same substance as the Creator, like all spirit beings are. The pre-human Jesus is a creation of his Father who is his 'begetter'. (Colossians 1:15-17; Revelation 3:14) There is only one true God...the Father. (John 17:3)

without a doubt, he's the one. but if you have any doubt, please reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as to who “MADE ALL THINGS”. (Please Note, in Isaiah 44:24, the one who made all things is “Alone”, and by himself, so he didn’t go through anyone. And also remember God is everywhere, and this “ONE” person was alone….

So you have a twisted version of the trinity by making Jesus the holy spirit? Interesting....

Now that's a whole discussion all by itself.

Again you betray no knowledge of the mechanics of Christ's ransom. God becoming a man is overkill on the meaning of redemption. Like using a thousand cans of bug spray on one mosquito.....it was the other way around....one perfect life was offered for millions of humans sold into sin through no fault on their part.

Who said that?.

Why would God need to become manifest as a human? He has servants to carry out his will....Jesus is the foremost one of them.

ANSWER: Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me." new testament, Revelation 5:3 "And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." you might want to add these as cross references.
Now if no man was found, God himself came, MINE “OWN” arm brought salvation unto me. And who , yes that’s right who is God’s OWN arm, read Isaiah 53, especially verses 1-4, but the entire chapter and book is worth your read.

How is it that on his return to heaven, Jesus can still speak about his God? He refers to "my God" 4 times in one verse. (Revelation 3:12) Can God worship himself?

his God is HIM in Spirit form, without flesh and blood, glorified God. John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." Now if JESUS is not God, then you have two Gods… that's another topic too.

PICJAG

 

[Tumah]

Thank, that was my point.

PICJAG.

For some reason though, your conclusion about 1:6 is wrong though.

 

[Deeje]

Who said that?.

Jesus did....
Matthew 20:28...NASB
" just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

And speaking of translations....you have to know that there is no such thing as a "holy ghost"....

I see such a convoluted path to your conclusions but I wonder who shares your views.....do you have a brotherhood who all believe the same things that you do? (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Still waiting for an answer to this one.....are you dodging it? Who are your brothers? Do you meet regularly? Or are you a church of one? (Hebrews 10:24-25) Who else believes as you do?

I should be able to find your "church" online so that your beliefs and practices can be examined and evaluated. This is what people do in this day and age. Can you direct me to a website? When Jesus' disciples preached, the people who responded to their message had somewhere physical to go to further their education.....where do you send people?

Christianity is a brotherhood.....you do not belong to any church whose beliefs I have ever heard of.....so please do not include me among your brethren. I assure you that I do not share any of your beliefs. And I really have no desire to participate in these empty discussions any further. You are set in your beliefs and so am I.....my brotherhood is over eight and a half million strong with congregations all over the world....we all hold our beliefs in common and there are no divisions among us. We preach "the good news of the Kingdom" in every nation on earth in obedience to Jesus' command, (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20)....what about you?

What is the good news of the Kingdom?