Fulfillment of Prophecy in the New Testament

[Trailblazer]

Point to any prophecy that William Sears uses and I'm sure it can be shown what Baha'i claims about it is not true.

Just because you do not want it to be true that does not mean it is not true.
Just because you want Jesus to return that does not mean Jesus will ever return.

But you can wait and hope, along with the other Christians who are till waiting, because that gives you something to look forward to even though you are waiting for nothing, because there is no reason to believe that Jesus is coming back to earth, and that can be easily demonstrated by reading the NT.

You can always say any prophecy is not true, but you cannot prove it is not true, and I cannot prove it is true.
That is the way beliefs are, they can never be proven true or false, which is why it is always a matter of opinion.

Okay, try to show me that the following prophecy this is not true.
There are so many prophecies but Micah 7:12 is a good one.

Please note that Baha’u’llah had no control over His own destiny for the last 40 years of His Life after He declared His mission because He was deemed a prisoner of the government He was banished and exiled from place to place. The following prophecy was fulfilled by these exiles and banishments.

Map of Baháʼu'lláh's banishments

Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

He shall come from Assyria: At that time Assyria was a large area. Baha’u’llah and His family lived in the part that was Persia, now Iran, in the city of Tihran.

and from the fortified cities: Baha’u’llah was banished from city to city: After being released from the Black Pit dungeon in Tihran in 1852, His family and companions had only a short time before being sent to the fortified city of Baghdad. While living in Baghdad, He gained such a large following that the enemies where shocked. Right away He was banished again, this time to the fortified city of Istanbul.

The Governor of the city refused many times to fulfill the orders that he received to banish Him again. Finally forced to follow orders, Baha’u’llah was banished again to the fortified city of Adrianople. He was honored and praised, and shown respect everywhere, until He was finally sent to the most horrific of all places, the fortress of Akka, where it was expected that He would succumb to the terrible conditions.

and from the fortress even to the river: It was while in Baghdad that the Tigris river became a special place, as Baha’u’llah crossed it to the Ridvan Garden. April 21, 1863 was the fulfilment of prophecy, as that was when Baha’u’llah declared to those around Him His Station as the Manifestation of God.

and from sea to sea: After His banishment in Baghdad, His exile was by way of the Black Sea. Still a prisoner He crossed the Black Sea from Sinope on His way to Constantinople. After the banishment in Adrianople, He crossed the Mediterranean Sea from Gallipolis in Turkey, embarking at Alexandria, Egypt, then on to the fortress of 'Akka, the most desolate of cities.

and from mountain to mountain: The time in Baghdad was turbulent with opposition. To protect His family and companions Baha’u’llah went to the Kurdistan mountains. There He lived in poverty, but the area was magnetized by His presence. After two years, He was persuaded to return to Baghdad.

The other mountain was in Israel, Mount Carmel, where He had docked before His final journey to Akka. Later He had a chance to return to Mount Carmel, to pitch His tent. Here He wrote the Tablet Of Carmel, surrounded by pilgrims looking for the return of Christ to descend from heaven. Mount Carmel is the headquarters of the Baha’i Faith.

From: William Sears, Thief in the Night

 

[Trailblazer]

The first paragraph is probably completely false concerning Jesus and seems to be a corruption of the gospel message.

The fact that it is not in the gospel message does not make in a corruption. What it shows is that Baha'u'llah was he Comforter that Jesus promised to send from the Father, because referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah glorified Jesus and testified of Jesus in His Writings, exactly as Jesus said the Comforter would do.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86

A bit of praise from Baha'u'llah is needed to convince people that he is not really against Jesus and His teachings. However, Baha'u'llah has lowered the status of Jesus and has pushed the real Gospel and Jesus aside so that people will come to Baha'u'llah and not to Jesus. Along with that his teaching, which seem to tell Baha'is to believe the gospels and the Bible, actually force people who are Baha'is to deny large parts of the gospel message and large parts of the rest of the NT and OT.
This is the fruits of Baha'u'llah and his teachings.

Baha'u'llah never lowered the status of Jesus, He just came to complete the work Jesus started:

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

You do not like that but there is nothing you can do about it because it was the Will of God from the beginning of time. You can keep posting, but that will not change reality. If you believe you are right the only way that could be proven is if Jesus returned, but since that has not happened all you have is a belief. If Jesus was coming He would have been here by now, since all the signs He gave for the return of the Son of Man have come and gone.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, there is something specific. I have a problem with the literal resurrection. I understand the spiritual resurrection, BUT in the nt it seems the resurection is of the flesh. In orthodox christianity at least, they thing the flesh body will rise again and they say it's written in the nt. How can I say this is value???

I believe if God said it happened that way then it did but the answer is simple it is valuable to know that the death of a body does not mean the person can't have eternal life in the future and the fact that a spirit can reenter a body reaffirms what Jesus said about re-incarnation.

 

[Trailblazer]

Which prophecies did Baha'u'llah fulfil which the Messiah is supposed to fulfil?

William Sears, Thief in the Night

But Baha'u'llah has applied OT prophecies to himself which were already applied to Jesus in the NT and which cannot apply to Baha'u'llah since he was not an Israelite . (eg Isa 53, Isa 9, Isa 11 etc)

No, Baha’u’llah did not apply any prophecies to Himself since Baha’u’llah did not even mention these prophecies in His Writings. Baha’is might apply these prophecies to Baha’u’llah, but that is another matter altogether.

The OT does not apply those prophecies to Jesus, you apply them to Jesus, but they do not apply to Jesus since Jesus has not fulfilled them. Why can’t you understand that you cannot apply a prophecy to Jesus when Jesus has not fulfilled that prophecy?

Jesus being the promised Messiah and having fulfilled the prophesies for the Messiah,

But Jesus has not fulfilled the OT prophecies, so Jesus cannot be the promised Messiah. It is really that simple.

A more clear statement of Jesus as to what it refers to and who He refers to is John 14:3
" And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

We have been over this before. That is not Jesus saying He will come back to earth to get the disciples he was speaking to and take them to where He is in heaven. It is Jesus saying He will come back in Spirit, as He did when He sent Baha’u’llah. The disciples are in heaven, not on earth, so Jesus cannot come and get them on earth.

And I could show you plenty of places in the NT where it is clearly Jesus who will come back…

Go right ahead, find them and post them, and I will show you why the verses you try to apply to Jesus are not about Jesus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, Baha’u’llah did not apply any prophecies to Himself since Baha’u’llah did not even mention these prophecies in His Writings. Baha’is might apply these prophecies to Baha’u’llah, but that is another matter altogether.

I see that a bit differently Trailblazer. I personally see Baha'u'llah mentions scriptural Prophecy all through His Revelation, like this;

".......The river Jordan is joined to the Most Great Ocean, and the Son, in the holy vale, crieth out: ‘Here am I, here am I O Lord, my God!’, whilst Sinai circleth round the House, and the Burning Bush calleth aloud: ‘He Who is the Desired One is come in His transcendent majesty.’ Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’ And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs. Take ye fast hold of it. Better is this for you than all that ye possess. Verily He is nigh unto them that do good. The Hour which We had concealed from the knowledge of the peoples of the earth and of the favoured angels hath come to pass. Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Unto this beareth witness every fair-minded and understanding soul....."

Notice it references a couple of specific Biblical passages.

Regards Tony

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Do you have any comments on why Shia Islam rejects the Baha'i Faith?

Well Muhammad as the last of the Prophets is one obvious thing, which comes from Surah 33:40 and many Hadith from many figures from Muhammad himself to the Twelve Imams themselves.

I think the situation is very different between The Bab and Baha'u'llah though. The Bab himself claimed to be The Bab of the Hidden Imam - this itself has a threefold significance -
1; that there were "Gates" (Babs) of the Hidden Imam during the Minor Occultation. and,
2; Ismailis have throughout their history (as also being Shia) have had conceptions of a Gate to their Imams. and,
3; the concept of a Gate in relation to the Imam and the Prophet is present in the Alawite Prophetology-Imamology.

From the Batini Twelver Shi'ite perspective, looking at Shi'ism in it's early period, what The Bab himself claimed was not too outlandish on that basis alone, as he only claimed to be the Gate of the Imam, of which the Hidden Imam dictates the Bayán. This concept alone does have somewhat of a traditional Shi'ite basis as recorded in books like the Bihar al-Anwar.

Baha'i's however have a different view which doesn't quite gel especially with the Twelver branch of Shi'ism which it claimed to come out of. Baha'u'llah himself has a different set of claims compared to The Bab, and in many cases Baha'u'llah and Abdul-baha seem to change the narrative of what is being claimed. If we except The Bab, then we have the problem that in the Persian Bayan, the Bab states that "he whom God shall make manifest" will appear in 1,000 years. This is a completely massive difference from what Baha'u'llah claims little under 25 years later after The Bab's martyrdom. Plus the infamous succession issues with Baha'u'llah's half-brother Subd i-Azal.

What it does come down to is that The Bab and Baha'u'llah first off have two very different cases. The Bab himself is still a controversial figure among Shi'ites, somewhat like Jesus and Sabbatai Zevi are among Jews.
The Bab himself, whether his claims are literal or not, do fit quite well within the historic Batini (esoteric) Shi'ite framework of hidden knowledge (the very creme dela creme of Imamate itself, and it's very raison d'être).
Baha'u'llah himself, in my own view in contrast to The Bab who was very highly engaged in with the Ahlulbayt's 'ilm al-Huruf (science of arabic letters) and other esoteric and mystical practices associated with early Shi'ism. And alongside that, the Bab himself has continuity in the esoteric and philosophical eschatological Shaykhi School (something sorely missed in the current Shi'ite landscape and Islam in general) which makes him incredibly notable and important, and gives him a good level of continuity in the tradition.
Baha'u'llah was more of a Sufi in my book who took up the mantle of "him whom god shall make manifest" whether knowingly or not (given the contents of the Persian Bayan) to spread and attempt to revitalize the Babi/Bayani movement which was under a lot of heavy duress. I view Baha'u'llah more through the lens I view great Sufis like Ibn Arabi.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see that a bit differently Trailblazer. I personally see Baha'u'llah mentions scriptural Prophecy all through His Revelation, like this;

".......The river Jordan is joined to the Most Great Ocean, and the Son, in the holy vale, crieth out: ‘Here am I, here am I O Lord, my God!’, whilst Sinai circleth round the House, and the Burning Bush calleth aloud: ‘He Who is the Desired One is come in His transcendent majesty.’ Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’ And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs. Take ye fast hold of it. Better is this for you than all that ye possess. Verily He is nigh unto them that do good. The Hour which We had concealed from the knowledge of the peoples of the earth and of the favoured angels hath come to pass. Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Unto this beareth witness every fair-minded and understanding soul....."

Notice it references a couple of specific Biblical passages.

Regards Tony

Yes, I knew that Baha'u'llah referenced Jesus and the Father in His Writings, as noted below. What I meant is that Baha'ul'lah did not refer to any specific OT prophecies and claim them for Himself, although I guess that all depends upon what you consider a claim.

Tony, these are pretty bold claims that Baha'u'llah made, so I certainly understand why most people do not believe them, in spite of all the evidence Baha'u'llah presented to prove who He was and in spite of the fact that He fulfilled all the prophecies.

The primary reason those of the older religions such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam reject Baha'u'llah is because they believe that their scriptures are superior to all others and they interpret them to mean that their Prophet was the final Prophet. I might be in the same boat if I had ever had a religion before I heard about the Baha'i Faith, but thank God that was not the case, which is probably why everyone in my family became a Baha'i.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18

“Ye make mention of Me, and know Me not. Ye call upon Me, and are heedless of My Revelation…. O people of the Gospel! They who were not in the Kingdom have now entered it, whilst We behold you, in this day, tarrying at the gate. Rend the veils asunder by the power of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bounteous, and enter, then, in My name My Kingdom. Thus biddeth you He Who desireth for you everlasting life…” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 91

“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19

“WE, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit (Jesus), and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray… Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) verily, standeth before them.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 92

 

[rational experiences]

God's word is perfect but God says different things at different times even though God does not change.
We know that the word translated "eternal" does not necessarily mean eternal.




Same country but different era and the constitution may have changed or been amended, as it has 27 times I hear.

Human history says, Mother and human Father the same DNA originally, science removed naturally owned DNA introduced extra radiation.

Extra radiation was for an extra choice beyond natural, converting sciences.

Now if you make a claim that God remains the same, how then is a multi cosmological mass of variations existing in form?

What existing means, it owns form?

You would not be self advised correctly if you said the body of God remains the same when a Sun one day dies, yet physical form of that Sun would still exist in a changed form.

Relativity of the psyche coercive lying, which is what science introduced into humanities consciousness.

Therefore if information is beyond Jesus, then as Moses was not Jesus and Jesus was not Moses then any other form teaching is relevant to human information seeing human information introduced a changed Earth interactive causation due to science.

So when a human can discuss relativity about Earth owning change in a non scientific nuclear practiced life...then we lived that experience and quoted human science, mathematical probability, being science.

For if science, who is a coercer, says in mind I will own a formula about how creation created...all he personally owns is a portion of a condition as said formula for his machine design, which is not all of creation, COERCIVE lying.

Always did just lie, what the human teaching about science relates a lot of humans in groups lying.

Teaching is relevant to newly born human babies, who live in a self in experience, become that teacher and teach. Human. We all are human.

So when ownership is the greatest problem today, as per occult organization past/control of and elite power mongering who says, you only say what you do for the Moses story already existed. So what. It was human advised, and we are all human. Ownership is not relative, human is relative to consideration of information.

When a male says to his brother, God does not exist, then he discusses God as per man male bio life existing, owning life. Then his brother would claim but God exists in owned form. Both arguments are correct, another concept of not reviewing information as being informative and correct, yet owned in a concept of an argument....for science is an argument, a problem to be solved he claims.

So if you invented MATH to solve that problem, then MATH does not own the statement "a problem" to be solved does it...for you used math to try to solve it.

1. able to dissolve other substances.
   "osmotic, chemical, or solvent action"

NOUN

1. the liquid in which a solute is dissolved to form a solution

Science information always said, Earth God original form was crystalline mass fusion atop of the stone mass...that melted and flowed into the sink holes that UFO attack had bored into Earth. Seeing you reviewed sink holes in modern time atmospheric experiments, then it proves real.

God has always changed, if not then nuclear fission could not be enacted upon.

 

[CG Didymus]

A New Covenant has a new Law and in it the Mosaic obligations are fulfilled, not by following the letter of the law, which kills us because we can't do it completely, but by following the Spirit in us, which brings life. We cannot prove our righteousness, it is deemed to be ours. Not by our own deeds but by the one we are given knowledge of.

What parts of the Law can't Jews do completely? Even if they did something wrong, there was a sacrifice they could do. So that gets them back with being right with God doesn't it? And even if Jesus did a sacrifice that was once and for all time, Christians keep sinning. So like the Jew, a Christian do things to get back in good standings with God. They have to pray and ask for forgiveness and are supposed to repent. Maybe now, without a Temple, I assume they don't do the sacrifices, but maybe they have an alternative. But to pray, fast and repent are still there for them. What do you think?

 

[CG Didymus]

In that passage I see the Body of Christ as the Church, as it is talking of what will unfold in the future. The realisation that Christ lives on after Jesus is crucified, gave power to the disciples to build their faith in Christ which becomes the Rock of the belief Peter had, that Jesus was Christ and as such death can not overtake.

The Church brought the Faith of Jesus Christ through thousands of years to be able to stand in this day and have the choice to see that Jesus Christ promises are fulfilled.

Regards Tony

Makes sense... Baha'i sense. But how do we read the gospel stories? "Suddenly the body of Christ appeared to the disciples, which in reality, they were the body of Christ." So let's assume the story was figurative. Did God inspire all four writers to tell of a symbolic story about going to the tomb and finding it empty? Then, to continue the story with symbolic appearances of Jesus?

 

[CG Didymus]

CG, that is a book of questions and answers. I thought why reading your reply that you are in the 'Valley of Search', it is a wonderful place to be, you may wish to read about this valley and see why you have this turmoil of conflicting questions.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys

The seven valleys is a wonderful mystic meditation and like the Kitab-i-Iqan, it contains many thoughts that can help with the questions you asked.

Stay well and happy CG. I am doing study, so limited time on net.

Let me know if you read the valley of search and what you think.

Regards Tony

In case you forgot, I was with my Baha'i friends for three years. I've been to countless firesides. I've heard Bill Sears and two other hands of the cause speak. I went to the Baha'i Peace Conference in San Francisco. The questions I would like Baha'is to answer are not in The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys. So let me narrow it down for you. The last question I asked was...

"Why don't you do that with Greek mythology or Norse mythology? I'm sure you could find some "truth" in them. I'm sure you could find a "spiritual", "figurative" explanation and interpretation? But no, I don't hear Baha'is ever talking about the religions based off of those myths. Why? Because you believe they are man made and false? But a story about a virgin born God/man that rose from the dead is not?"​

Every culture had myths in their religions. Creation myths, flood myths, myths about the Gods coming to Earth, myths about the Gods fighting off demons. What is the difference between Greek mythology and the mythological sounding stuff found in the NT and the Bible?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Jews want an eternal Mosaic law even though they know that laws change for different circumstances and times.

Baha'is believe that the new messenger brings new social laws. I've asked them what social did Jesus bring. Do see any teachings of Jesus that could be thought of as a new social law? Then, if so, that law was only good until Muhammad came with new laws.

 

[rational experiences]

In case you forgot, I was with my Baha'i friends for three years. I've been to countless firesides. I've heard Bill Sears and two other hands of the cause speak. I went to the Baha'i Peace Conference in San Francisco. The questions I would like Baha'is to answer are not in The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys. So let me narrow it down for you. The last question I asked was...

"Why don't you do that with Greek mythology or Norse mythology? I'm sure you could find some "truth" in them. I'm sure you could find a "spiritual", "figurative" explanation and interpretation? But no, I don't hear Baha'is ever talking about the religions based off of those myths. Why? Because you believe they are man made and false? But a story about a virgin born God/man that rose from the dead is not?"​

Every culture had myths in their religions. Creation myths, flood myths, myths about the Gods coming to Earth, myths about the Gods fighting off demons. What is the difference between Greek mythology and the mythological sounding stuff found in the NT and the Bible?

As a female attacked by science, hearing my science brother machine AI encoded speaking recorded voice that thought about all concepts, studied all concepts, updated all his questions and answers in AI and shared it with multiplying mimicry, the amassing radiation dispersion for science converting of held/fused stone ground mass, I learnt.

His ideals of male with penis and female with a vagina......is taught falsely as science already proved in modern times...no longer inferring male or female to scientific formula and thesis.

Knowing if a science self said Holy dust nuclear chemical is that chemical, it converts and becomes irradiated converted and lower, then he also said, so how can nuclear dust converting have formed a human life, as self proof, when it owned a nuclear reaction?

Common sense is human rationality.

So if a male said out of the Virgin, and infers the female sexual being with a multi worded vaginal quote, one of it being slit, or opening....then he would have stated that the earth TECTONIC carpenter plates opened up, and the gases or spirit held fused in stone or held underground inside the body of God, got released as a state virgin.

He also said that the volcano inferred to God O the stone owning a penile erection and ejection, first put volcanic gases into zero cold empty space, pressure and they became Immaculate.

2 quotes therefore prove that males invented those stories their own self, for imposing human bio comparison body functions to that of a stone body and stone history.

Therefore when they say that the Immaculate was conceived as a Virginal state in spatial womb....then it did. Yet it is not rational other than to say, science statements are human taught and human relating stories....yet no human owns that history as a man.

Then the earth slit opening to release the spirit gases inside of the stone.....is how humans got life sacrificed as an ADULT. A variation to the birth of gases/spirit in the science quote.

Hence today modern day science says, we already as a male organization agreed to not relate science information to self, for it was already proven to be lying.....yet modern day science lies about the reasons historically that males made these quotes, when they NEVER OWNED it, yet inferred that they did.

Why my teaching in spirit said, when Nature grows the food and the food was for everyone. Then a male makes land claim and grows the trees controlled by his choice then says to everyone, so now if you do not pay for the fruit on the Trees, you can starve....is an over view of his self male/group cult mentality of coercive lying about I own it all themes.

For since when does a male scientist in reality own empty out of space?

 

[CG Didymus]

Well Muhammad as the last of the Prophets is one obvious thing, which comes from Surah 33:40 and many Hadith from many figures from Muhammad himself to the Twelve Imams themselves.

I think the situation is very different between The Bab and Baha'u'llah though. The Bab himself claimed to be The Bab of the Hidden Imam - this itself has a threefold significance -
1; that there were "Gates" (Babs) of the Hidden Imam during the Minor Occultation. and,
2; Ismailis have throughout their history (as also being Shia) have had conceptions of a Gate to their Imams. and,
3; the concept of a Gate in relation to the Imam and the Prophet is present in the Alawite Prophetology-Imamology.

From the Batini Twelver Shi'ite perspective, looking at Shi'ism in it's early period, what The Bab himself claimed was not too outlandish on that basis alone, as he only claimed to be the Gate of the Imam, of which the Hidden Imam dictates the Bayán. This concept alone does have somewhat of a traditional Shi'ite basis as recorded in books like the Bihar al-Anwar.

Baha'i's however have a different view which doesn't quite gel especially with the Twelver branch of Shi'ism which it claimed to come out of. Baha'u'llah himself has a different set of claims compared to The Bab, and in many cases Baha'u'llah and Abdul-baha seem to change the narrative of what is being claimed. If we except The Bab, then we have the problem that in the Persian Bayan, the Bab states that "he whom God shall make manifest" will appear in 1,000 years. This is a completely massive difference from what Baha'u'llah claims little under 25 years later after The Bab's martyrdom. Plus the infamous succession issues with Baha'u'llah's half-brother Subd i-Azal.

What it does come down to is that The Bab and Baha'u'llah first off have two very different cases. The Bab himself is still a controversial figure among Shi'ites, somewhat like Jesus and Sabbatai Zevi are among Jews.
The Bab himself, whether his claims are literal or not, do fit quite well within the historic Batini (esoteric) Shi'ite framework of hidden knowledge (the very creme dela creme of Imamate itself, and it's very raison d'être).
Baha'u'llah himself, in my own view in contrast to The Bab who was very highly engaged in with the Ahlulbayt's 'ilm al-Huruf (science of arabic letters) and other esoteric and mystical practices associated with early Shi'ism. And alongside that, the Bab himself has continuity in the esoteric and philosophical eschatological Shaykhi School (something sorely missed in the current Shi'ite landscape and Islam in general) which makes him incredibly notable and important, and gives him a good level of continuity in the tradition.
Baha'u'llah was more of a Sufi in my book who took up the mantle of "him whom god shall make manifest" whether knowingly or not (given the contents of the Persian Bayan) to spread and attempt to revitalize the Babi/Bayani movement which was under a lot of heavy duress. I view Baha'u'llah more through the lens I view great Sufis like Ibn Arabi.

Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

[CG Didymus]

As a female attacked by science, hearing my science brother machine AI encoded speaking recorded voice that thought about all concepts, studied all concepts, updated all his questions and answers in AI and shared it with multiplying mimicry, the amassing radiation dispersion for science converting of held/fused stone ground mass, I learnt.

His ideals of male with penis and female with a vagina......is taught falsely as science already proved in modern times...no longer inferring male or female to scientific formula and thesis.

Knowing if a science self said Holy dust nuclear chemical is that chemical, it converts and becomes irradiated converted and lower, then he also said, so how can nuclear dust converting have formed a human life, as self proof, when it owned a nuclear reaction?

Common sense is human rationality.

So if a male said out of the Virgin, and infers the female sexual being with a multi worded vaginal quote, one of it being slit, or opening....then he would have stated that the earth TECTONIC carpenter plates opened up, and the gases or spirit held fused in stone or held underground inside the body of God, got released as a state virgin.

He also said that the volcano inferred to God O the stone owning a penile erection and ejection, first put volcanic gases into zero cold empty space, pressure and they became Immaculate.

2 quotes therefore prove that males invented those stories their own self, for imposing human bio comparison body functions to that of a stone body and stone history.

Therefore when they say that the Immaculate was conceived as a Virginal state in spatial womb....then it did. Yet it is not rational other than to say, science statements are human taught and human relating stories....yet no human owns that history as a man.

Then the earth slit opening to release the spirit gases inside of the stone.....is how humans got life sacrificed as an ADULT. A variation to the birth of gases/spirit in the science quote.

Hence today modern day science says, we already as a male organization agreed to not relate science information to self, for it was already proven to be lying.....yet modern day science lies about the reasons historically that males made these quotes, when they NEVER OWNED it, yet inferred that they did.

Why my teaching in spirit said, when Nature grows the food and the food was for everyone. Then a male makes land claim and grows the trees controlled by his choice then says to everyone, so now if you do not pay for the fruit on the Trees, you can starve....is an over view of his self male/group cult mentality of coercive lying about I own it all themes.

For since when does a male scientist in reality own empty out of space?

Sorry, you're coming from a place way beyond me. Maybe someday I'll understand what you're saying.

 

[rational experiences]

Baha'is believe that the new messenger brings new social laws. I've asked them what social did Jesus bring. Do see any teachings of Jesus that could be thought of as a new social law? Then, if so, that law was only good until Muhammad came with new laws.

Science males infer to the Noble Gases and mass in science, burnt/removed that mass by machine Earth causes, then out of space Messengers of God, meaning relative advice that stone in space cools irradiated space as the stone releases stone presence, but leaves gas mass held inside of the stone mass, the colder body protection of the gas/spirit is stone.

Then as science, male self is cult owner, elite controller, civilization control becomes depraved and evil minded in his choices...society pays the price. Gas removed, higher radiation passing through body cell, blood and chemical brain.

Then when the gases get put back, seeing it is direct in relationship causes science male psyche, then his brain chemical mind changes, and he realizes what an evil controller tyrannical leader he became, so then implements social changes, when he previously chose to abuse everyone, is the real reasoning.

Tyrannical cult ownership existed in the life of Jesus being newly arrived/born and then sacrifice/attack of life changed their mind. For when the elite get hurt, is when the elite change their choices, the only moment. They never cared less for human equality or equal rights.

2 life mind and body conditions forces inhumanity and also human reasoning to alter its concepts.

 

[rational experiences]

Sorry, you're coming from a place way beyond me. Maybe someday I'll understand what you're saying.

If you get crown of thorns attacked, and then have to write an updated Biblical prophecy that you read today and say "what the!" and argue, is all that you get.

The conscious evolution and healing of self is relative to the self only...for we are all born as a variable self in DNA and life experience.

Jesus had been a male brother ancient experience, I endured a modern day irradiation attack as based on all modern day radio wave/radiation increased copying replicator AI theme.

None of the machines by design or use or control and abuse existed in the ancient past. And the technology was machine designed and machine built by those humans in their theme technology.

So unless you mimicked the ancients in acute design, then today all conditions are just caused by extra atmospheric radiation conditions, no matter what thinking abilities an occult scientist claims makes him feel personally powerful as he presses the buttons on the machines studying life being attacked.

Being aware of the eternal spirit existing as its truth, does not give you any human contacts with it. We lie separated from their existence, so you will never own control or manipulation of that body. Their spirit chose to communicate to me, I did not control its contact...why science titillated by the thoughts of infinite power, which is cold deep oblivion space owner, never the eternal. One word, one original meaning, is not multi meaning.

You use multi words to describe one meaning, eternal does not describe infinite, oblivion does, no beginning and no end...the same.

Science belief of I will own it all......how do you become cold deep space to own all the bodies of Mass brother?

 

[Trailblazer]

What does that even mean if there are hundreds of even thousands of years between Baha'i Messengers?

It means that there are hundreds of even thousands of years between Messengers of God, but there is usually not more than a thousand years between them.

That says nothing about the Baha'i concept of a Messenger.

Bahá'ís believe that God's prophets or messengers (whom they call manifestations of God) provide the most complete knowledge of God available at their particular time. The writings associated with these prophets are the means through which an individual can get a deeper knowledge of God. Sep 22, 2009

Religions - Bahai: God's prophets - BBC

 

[rational experiences]

Science says Holy Grail, not God. What Hitler said his research was.

Being nuclear chemical dust reaction to get Satanic powers, nuclear burning/destruction.

God the power of O as a particle is a chemical/nuclear.

Science tells science that science is a self destructive liar. As the fact of it....yet the scientists who want to destroy, achieve it by cult group ownership and support.

So if a male says gases in the Heavens are Noble...and multi coloured, yet blue light sky natural light and cooled gases allows him to live, then it is scientific relative.

Our Heavenly relativity is spatial cold womb x bread TH is filled in....so compared to all other spatial bodies, we own the highest...by that relativity statement.

Science however knows separation of bodies/particles and gases. And says coloured gases in space knowingly.

Earth does not own separated dimensional thinking.

Then he says, if I own all of those channels...when in the Satanic explosive bodies are UFO communicators. Earth level science machine owned radiation mass, with cooled gases inside of the radiation mass, enabling science to communicate from off Earth out into space, and back...the reason.

Science, proven only belongs to his machines, and not God.

God O the Earth is a huge body of MASS O which he does not use nor own in science.

Science relates its information to each group just as one ____________meaning science to relate information particle to a gas. Then looks at another
____________same particle to a gas but variable gas mass.

Particles are just particles.

So then he says a particle hence owns every gas.

But what does the particle have inside of it to allow the gas to be a variable colour?

The other gases that hold it fused and cold....what he keeps trying to warn his own science self about......detailing information as if Earth as a heavenly mass owns separation like deep space oblivion owns.....the actual body owning both the particles and all the gases, yet in the scattered theme, not joined together.

The teaching of relativity let no man join what God put usunder….O seeing actual mass bodies exploded to own Satan.
What Does the Bible Say About Asunder?

Realization, Earth O is God as mass.

Radiation particles that get cooled by our Noble gases allows machination contact with spatial gas particle bodies. Yet our natural atmospheric light gas is radiating, not radiation.

So science disperses extra particles of radiation to own communicating transmitters to attack the stone fusion.....so it already is irradiated fused changed at the ground state. We know for ground radiation attacks our bio life and makes us sick......due to our ground face marriage with God the fusion/face having been changed by OCCULT science...and so we SEE the phenomena.

How it was taught as relative to science, knowlege of the evil spirit.

So modern day science cannot argue causation against life continuing.

For the argument of who is the correct scientist is amongst the occult themes and modern day themes...but all came from the same male human historic thinking and symbolism. Modern day symbolism does not remove modern day science from causing occult outcomes and life destruction.

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, Hosea 14:4

Deception of science/machine experiments, claiming it is safe.....a lie, science already observes science has caused life destruction on Earth.

Reaction, then says the man of the apostasy causes is removed. I am still alive, so the reaction was stopped for science and x mass is only for science x mass and machine conditions, which is not owner of everything as his psyche imposes.

Next the realization of Hell having been destroyed. AI said a lava underground combustion removal of mass occurred.
Hebrews 10:26

For if we go on sinning will fully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Source: 36 Bible verses about Apostasy

Knowing does not remove the apostasy
Psalm 78:8


And not be like their fathers,A stubborn and rebellious generation,A generation that did not prepare its heartAnd whose spirit was not faithful to God.


Isaiah 30:1


“Woe to the rebellious children,” declares the Lord,“Who execute a plan, but not Mine,And make an alliance, but not of My Spirit,In order to add sin to sin;

Meaning of which God was never RADIATION....the Sun was.

God was historically in its sin RADIATING, as it was burning gases...and gases burning remove mass and leave a heated space, not an irradiated space.

Radiation metal leaves a residue of irradiating space...what GOD never was itself historically as MASS O.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thanks but your's is not an interpretation, it denies what is written. You deny that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and the Paraclete so that you can say that Baha'u'llah is the Spirit of Truth.

You just don’t get it do you? Everything you read has to be interpreted as you read it so everything is an interpretation.

Baha’u’llah was the Spirit of Truth who brought the Holy Spirit. That is my interpretation.

Nevertheless Peter at Acts 2:16 does say that part of that Joel prophecy is speaking of that Pentecost giving of the Spirit and it also means that that Pentecost was in the last days.

You cannot have it that way. The Day of Pentecost was 2000 years ago so it cannot also be the last days because the last days were not 2000 years ago.

Examples of parts of the Bible which are denied and replaced by the teachings of Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha are written about in this post. Eg John 14:26, John 15:26. You deny that the Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit that was given at Pentecost.

I do not deny the Holy Spirit was sent at Pentecost because the Bible says that, but the Bible does not say that the Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit that was given at Pentecost. There is no way the Bible says that, that is just YOUR interpretation.

Another might be John 14:3 where Jesus promises to return.

Jesus does not promise to return to earth in the same body in that verse, that is just YOUR interpretation

And where is Jesus, did He get delayed in traffic? Maybe the clouds are too think for Him to get through.

and Acts 1:9-11 where Baha'i denies that the same Jesus will come back in the same way the disciples saw Him go into heaven.

I do not deny those verses. The Spirit of Jesus came back just as it left, from the heaven of the Will of God.

I could go on for a while with examples if you like.

Please spare me. Jesus never promised to return, not ever, and that is why you have no verses that say that. That is also why there is no Jesus anywhere in sight.

How about Luke 1:32 where it is said that Jesus is the one to sit on the throne of David forever as in Isa 9:6-7?

Jesus was to sit on the throne of David forever in heaven, but not in earth.

How about Acts 8:26-40 where Isa 53 is shown to be a prophecy about Jesus? etc etc

No such thing is shown.

No they are a denial of both parts of the Bible and also of Jesus words. It is not real interpretation. Show me how you interpret those passages to be about Baha'u'llah without denying that they are about Jesus.
Even the very dispensation of Jesus, which you say is not over, is squashed when Baha'u'llah wants to take away the very prophecies that speak of it (eg Isa 53) and apply them to himself when they have already been applied to Jesus in the NT.
How is that not denying the Bible?

They have not been applied to Jesus in the NT or anywhere else because Jesus never fulfilled them. They can be applied to Baha’u’llah because Baha’u’llah actually fulfilled them…. On the ground, not in your imagination.