Fundamentalist Atheists

[Quagmire]

A few categories of theists do come to mind.

On one "non-extreme" there are apatheists who simply happen to also be theists.

On the extreme, there are the Acolytes of the True Faith, a group I would probably belong to if I believed in God at all.

Those are people who go beyond simply having strong belief in the existence of God, who also have for some reason or another a need to convince others to renounce their mistaken ways, supposedly for their own good. Many end up using their beliefs as justification for disrespecting the personal space of others. It happens with fire-and-brimstone preachers, but also with parents and relatively well-meaning people that are simply too lazy, too weak or too addicted to their abusive ways.

It is only human to feel tempted to influence other people. But it is considerably easier to fall prey to that temptation once one convinces himself to be doing God's work.

We already have several terms for those people.

 

[Thief]

A few categories of theists do come to mind.

On one "non-extreme" there are apatheists who simply happen to also be theists.

On the extreme, there are the Acolytes of the True Faith, a group I would probably belong to if I believed in God at all.

Those are people who go beyond simply having strong belief in the existence of God, who also have for some reason or another a need to convince others to renounce their mistaken ways, supposedly for their own good. Many end up using their beliefs as justification for disrespecting the personal space of others. It happens with fire-and-brimstone preachers, but also with parents and relatively well-meaning people that are simply too lazy, too weak or too addicted to their abusive ways.

It is only human to feel tempted to influence other people. But it is considerably easier to fall prey to that temptation once one convinces himself to be doing God's work.

I see no manner to avoid the influence.
If you are exposed to an idea......you are influenced.

 

[LuisDantas]

We already have several terms for those people.

We could use clearer self-applied terms, though. I wish people felt more free to admit when belief is or is not particularly important to them.

 

[Thief]

Art, inspiration, religious wisdom and dharma.

While I don't recommend belief in God, since I consider it a dangerous path to pursue, it is undeniable that many believers make marvelous use of it and end up being impressive, ivery constructive, inspired and inspiring people.

Some of them even quote or comment scripture while at it. But scripture itself is just an accessory.

Dangerous?...that would be a bias on your part.

Who are you trying to save?...from the danger

 

[LuisDantas]

I see no manner to avoid the influence.
If you are exposed to an idea......you are influenced.

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of preaching? Or with that of religious abuse?

 

[LuisDantas]

Dangerous?...that would be a bias on your part.

It is my sincere opinion and judgement. There real dangers in belief in God, and even greater ones in actively seeking it. Greatest of all are the dangers of pressuring others into such belief.

Call it bias if you like, although that is slightly dishonest, since it implies that it is demonstrably wrong.

Who are you trying to save?...from the danger

My brothers who believe or feel pressured into attempting to believe, of course.

 

[zenzero]

Friend LuisDantas,

Art, inspiration, religious wisdom and dharma.

While I don't recommend belief in God, since I consider it a dangerous path to pursue, it is undeniable that many believers make marvelous use of it and end up being impressive, ivery constructive, inspired and inspiring people.

Some of them even quote or comment scripture while at it. But scripture itself is just an accessory.

No doubt of the wisdom in those words but find any book that inspires one on a path of any kind even art becomes a scripture but only for that individual but later after the path is found only then does such a scripture become an accessory a reference manual as the individual has already internalised the scriptures and has started to reflect it in himself and needs no reference as such but only to help others on the path refer to scriptures.

Love & rgds

 

[Quagmire]

We could use clearer self-applied terms, though.

The problem with self-applied terms is that they're often the least accurate.

I wish people felt more free to admit when belief is or is not particularly important to them.

There are people who's personal beliefs are important to them, but who couldn't care less what anybody else believes. These people may come across as theologically apathetic but actually be anything but.

 

[Thief]

It is my sincere opinion and judgement. There real dangers in belief in God, and even greater ones in actively seeking it. Greatest of all are the dangers of pressuring others into such belief.

Call it bias if you like, although that is slightly dishonest, since it implies that it is demonstrably wrong.




My brothers who believe or feel pressured into attempting to believe, of course.

In return and likewise.....I see real and everlasting danger.
Non-believers are left standing wherever the fell.
The chaos of this life could follow you.

 

[LuisDantas]

The problem with self-applied terms is that they're often the least accurate.

We all could be a bit less accomodated about that, IMO.

There are people who's personal beliefs are important to them, but who couldn't care less what anybody else believes. These people may come across as theologically apathetic but actually be anything but.

Certainly true, but there is precious little to be done about that beyond being aware of their existence and allowing for that.

In general terms, though, interaction and even social life are important parts of religious belief and practice - to say nothing of how necessary they are to the attainment of basic respect and decency. Effective communication is worth pursuing. There will of course be exceptions, but not so many as to make the effort unappealing.

 

[Thief]

We all could be a bit less accomodated about that, IMO.




Certainly true, but there is precious little to be done about that beyond being aware of their existence and allowing for that.

In general terms, though, interaction and even social life are important parts of religious belief and practice. Effective communication is worth pursuing. There will of course be exceptions, but not so much as to make the effort unappealing.

I am then free to use your words as a spring board for my own?

 

[LuisDantas]

In return and likewise.....I see real and everlasting danger.
Non-believers are left standing wherever the fell.
The chaos of this life could follow you.

Do you have some clear warning to give me? Something beyond simply claiming that I would be better off or safer in some sense if I "made myself" believe in God?

Because, rest assured, that is not going to happen, and therefore not worth worrying about.

Or maybe you have some innovative explanation about how or why a non-believer should worry? All the explanations I saw so far are... less than convincing.

 

[LuisDantas]

I am then free to use your words as a spring board for my own?

Why do you even ask? I could not stop you if I wanted to... and I can hardly expect people to make a point of not noticing what I post in a public forum.

Edited to add: but if you want to mirror my statements to imply that your stances are "just as valid", sorry. Paraphrase does not preserve validity. Do your best, but don't expect me to hesitate in putting your statements down.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

A question to all of you: the OP talked about mainstream atheist and fundamentalist atheists. Are you talking about mainstream atheists, or "fundamentalist" atheists?

Or do you think that mainstream atheists are "fundamentalist" so it's a distinction without difference?

Fundamentalist atheists

"Mainstream" atheists I've met are more often than not kind.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Are you ever going to clarify who this "they" you're referring to is supposed to be?

I've no mention of specific names or groups. But exploring the depths of Yahoo Answers, Youtube Comments, and Facebook Fanpages (one for example is "God Is Not Great" which actually is just very annoying but nothing awful), I can assure you there are plenty there.

 

[LuisDantas]

How can one tell a fundamentalist atheist from a run-of-the-mill atheist whose style you happen to dislike? Is there some clear sign?

 

[Quagmire]

We all could be a bit less accomodated about that, IMO.

Not sure what you mean.

Certainly true, but there is precious little to be done about that beyond being aware of their existence and allowing for that.

In general terms, though, interaction and even social life are important parts of religious belief and practice - to say nothing of how necessary they are to the attainment of basic respect and decency. Effective communication is worth pursuing. There will of course be exceptions, but not so many as to make the effort unappealing.

You're equating religion to theism, which is something I don't do personally. I really don't think there need be any social aspect to theism, and I also believe that no one could communicate the more important aspects of their personal theology to anyone else effectively via language. Which is OK because I don't think it's ever necessary to.

 

[LuisDantas]

Not sure what you mean.

That having a flawed self-image or self-description is in and of itself a problem worth addressing and correcting.

We could make more of an effort to correct ourselves and each other in that.

You're equating religion to theism, which is something I don't do personally.

Sorry, but I don't think I did. Are you saying that because I mentioned religious practice?

I really don't think there need be any social aspect to theism, and I also believe that no one could communicate the more important aspects of their personal theology to anyone else effectively via language. Which is OK because I don't think it's ever necessary to.

That amounts to saying that such a variety of theism is inconsequential beyond the strictly individual sphere, and might even fail to be recognized as theism at least at first.

I don't think that happens particularly often. It does sound like a bit of a waste to me. Despite all the dangers and challenges, effective communication of our most sublime perceptions is a rare and precious activity.

 

[Sunstone]

How can one tell a fundamentalist atheist from a run-of-the-mill atheist whose style you happen to dislike? Is there some clear sign?

Good point. I'd bet my money that nine out of ten times a fundamentalist atheist is merely an atheist that one personally dislikes.

 

[LuisDantas]

So would I. And I'm uncertain about the tenth time.