G-d and the Devil

[michel]

This maybe completely against the belief of some members, and if it is, I apologise in advance.

I was out walking the other day, sat on a bench to recover for a few minutes, and suddenly felt a 'wave of realization' perhaps that is enlightenment - I am not sure.

I was thinking of G-d and the devil; comparing the human form, in which, I believe, we reflect both of these 'aspects' and suddenly wondered if the devil is just the same - another 'facet' of G-d, which is there to 'test us'.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ori]

Hmm, no. I don't believe that. I think the evil that is referred to as satan is really the greedy side of ourselves.

 

[jewscout]

Well i've read many that say The satan/Samael is a ministering angel who is the embodiment of pure Evil, but takes ALL of his marching orders from G-d

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi, Michel!

The way we Baha'is put it is that God is Supreme, One, and has no equal or rival! Thus, there is no "devil" competing with Him.

And "satan" simply refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature!

We are thus, thru the free will God gave us, TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE for our own decisions and actions! The only possible exceptions to this would be children and the insane.

Works for us.

Best,

Bruce

 

[Hirohito18200]

Hi, Michel!

And "satan" simply refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature!

Bruce

having read Twaine's "The Lowest Animal" i would have to disagree :biglaugh:

 

[Hirohito18200]

i camt spel, imust bee a itiod >.<

 

[Master Vigil]

And "satan" simply refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature!

And as a Taoist, I would definitely disagree. Our "lower animal" or our primal state of simplicity, is our correct nature. When we got "higher" we lost our true selves and began ruining ourselves and our environment.

Good and evil are simply concepts we have created from our own perceptions, experiences, environment, and how they effect us. There is no objective evil force, nor is there an objective good force. It is all just Tao.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

Our "lower animal" or our primal state of simplicity, is our correct nature. When we got "higher" we lost our true selves and began ruining ourselves and our environment.

change is inevitable. we can only choose how we change. and we obviously chose wrongly, losing our harmony with the Force and with the Earth. "Lower animal" is not our correct incarnation. neither is the "higher spirituality". There is always a middle path, and that is where we should be. Only the sith deal in absolutes .

 

[Master Vigil]

change is inevitable. we can only choose how we change. and we obviously chose wrongly, losing our harmony with the Force and with the Earth. "Lower animal" is not our correct incarnation. neither is the "higher spirituality". There is always a middle path, and that is where we should be. Only the sith deal in absolutes .

HAHA!! :biglaugh: Good one. When I speak of our "lower self" I was simply using that to equate it's meaning with Bruce's. You realize you spoke in absolutes as well. By saying change is inevitable makes it an absolute, byt saying our lower animal is not our correct incarnation, and neither is the higher spirituality. You spoke in absolutes. And even more so when you say there is ALWAYS a middle path. Uh oh. You aren't turning to the dark side are you.

The point is, the Tao works in natural ways. And our nature is our Primal simplicity. When the primal simplicity was lost (our higher selves appeared) we got too complicated, and the world was then ruined. Change is inevitable, which is why I encourage us all to return to simplicity.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings, friends!

While I agree that moderation is OFTEN the best course, there are clearly cases where this isn't appropriate! For example, I'm sure no civilized person wants a "moderate" amount of murder or a "moderate" amount of child abuse."

And sometimes there are indeed dichotomies, either/or situations! In cases such as these, and meaning no offense (please note), advocating choosing "something in the middle" is simply impractical if not downright silly!

I fullly agree that truth is relative; indeed, the Baha'i scriptures state that the only absolute is God Himself, and that all else is relative. (Indeed, this is one reason why truth can shift somewhat over time. For example, the law "stay out of the street!" for a two-year-old evolves into "look both ways before crossing" as the situation, abilities, and needs change.)

But the fact remains that qualitative (either/or) situations can't be addressed that way when there's no "middle" to choose, or when trying to do so would mean acceptance of "a moderate amount" of evil....

Life is never simple. :-S

Regards,

Bruce

 

[Voxton]

As human beings, we are self-aware and capable of rationalizing and understanding our behavior -- not completely and flawlessly -- but we are the only creatures on this planet capable of such a feat.

As such, we'd do ourselves a disfavor, by equating god or bad behavior with a metaphysical creature.

We have a capacity for good and evil, and some the capacity for great good, and great evil. It is empirically true that some can be brought to do evil because of the influence of other persons -- who might otherwise not have done so. It is a rational, and understandable thing that human beings can influence each others this negative (as well as positive) way.

But to link this to a metaphysical being isn't rational. It's not constructive.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Michel,

like God, Satan is spiritual in nature. That's where the comparison ends.

God is truth.

Satan is a lie.

God wants people to be happy.

Satan wants them to be miserable.

God is pure light.

Satan is the absence of any light.

 

[michel]

Michel,

like God, Satan is spiritual in nature. That's where the comparison ends.

God is truth.

Satan is a lie.

God wants people to be happy.

Satan wants them to be miserable.

God is pure light.

Satan is the absence of any light.

Why do you always have to make sense?:biglaugh:

 

[jeffrey]

Michel, what have you been smoking? And better yet, why have you not shared?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Well thanks for the kind words!

 

[fromthe heart]

I have to agree with NetDoc's wisdom here...and to add my tid-bit I'd say God being the Supreme Is over all...but when Satin(one of His beautiful angels) planned to try to out do God and was cast from the heavens God was in charge of that. Satin who wants all the souls he can gather into misery IS the lowest point we can get if we fall into Satins grasp!


There IS no comparing...God's power is so far greater than Satins that Satin knows in the end God will win the battle for all of us!

 

[Original Freak]

I was thinking of G-d and the devil; comparing the human form, in which, I believe, we reflect both of these 'aspects' and suddenly wondered if the devil is just the same - another 'facet' of G-d, which is there to 'test us'.

Any thoughts?

That would make God awfully cruel wouldn't it.

There IS no comparing...God's power is so far greater than Satins that Satin knows in the end God will win the battle for all of us!

Then what' with all the 'evil' in today's world. It seems like there shouldn't even be a battle, a snap of his omni-fingers and no more Satan.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Satan, get thee behind me, for you make me think, I would rather accept the comfortable realities that I have been given than question them and make myself uncomfortable, because in the end, I only question myself, BEGONE thought! for my reality is real for that is what I have been trained to believe- and Satan is the bringer of lies.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

This maybe completely against the belief of some members, and if it is, I apologise in advance.

I was out walking the other day, sat on a bench to recover for a few minutes, and suddenly felt a 'wave of realization' perhaps that is enlightenment - I am not sure.

I was thinking of G-d and the devil; comparing the human form, in which, I believe, we reflect both of these 'aspects' and suddenly wondered if the devil is just the same - another 'facet' of G-d, which is there to 'test us'.

Any thoughts?

Leave it to me to go against what everybody else has said, but my answer is YES. But what you have realized is the god/devil within you.

The source of your soul is all God (no devil) the complete absence of God is Satan AND WE ARE SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN. So your enlightenment was a self-actualization. But this is a big step in understanding a higher truth to the concepts of good and evil. It is not outside forces of good and evil working against you, it is the good and evil within, finding it's way out.

 

[Original Freak]

Leave it to me to go against what everybody else has said, but my answer is YES. But what you have realized is the god/devil within you.

The source of your soul is all God (no devil) the complete absence of God is Satan AND WE ARE SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN. So your enlightenment was a self-actualization. But this is a big step in understanding a higher truth to the concepts of good and evil. It is not outside forces of good and evil working against you, it is the good and evil within, finding it's way out.

I'll get this out first...I'm not arguing with what you believe, but trying to understand it.

So Satan is simply the complete absence of God?