Anyone in the West who insists that Ukrainians go on fighting and dying, while choosing to remain safe and sound far away from the war zone.
Yes, you said that already.
I asked who these people are.
Then what's your role in this? Why does this issue seem so important to you that you show up in every thread where it comes up?
I actually care about protecting democracy and supporting democratic countries who take a stand against tyrants and dictators who try to destroy democracy.
And let's also not forget that we are talking about a tyrant dictator who at every turn threatens our western society with cyber attacks, sabotage, troll farms and nuclear weapons.
I didn't say that, but aren't you the one always chiding others about "whataboutism"? Now you're doing what you criticize others for.
That's not whataboutism because it concerns the same conflict. We are talking about that conflict.
Point of order: Their continued existence is not threatened, "literally" or otherwise.
That's delusional. Russia attacked from several sides and went for Kiev. If Ukraine would lay down their weapons, the Russian army would absolutely march on into Kiev. Zelensky and the rest of his administration is on their death list.
I'm sure that no country likes being invaded, and due to their unfortunate position geographically, Belgium was caught up in the fighting.
Not the point. The point is that if a country is invaded, drafting occurs. Including people who don't want to fight.
This is not some special point to be made about Ukraine. This is/was the case in every country that went to war, ever, if and when the existing army wasn't sufficient.
Are people even allowed to protest in Ukraine?
Yes.
Would their government allow any open or public opposition to the war?
Yes. Ukraine isn't Russia, where you get shipped to Siberia or even killed for speaking out against the war.
Considering the over-the-top pro-Ukrainian fanaticism I've seen from many in the West, my guess is that if there is opposition or discontent over the war, they can't be too loud or public about it.
Your guess doesn't mean anything to me. Bring evidence.
Note also that there is also a difference between speaking out against war and collaborating with the enemy, obviously.
Up above, you said that the West is "merely supporting them," as if it's just some kind of routine thing, but now, you're painting as practically a matter of life and death for the West, saying it would be "self-destructive" to turn a blind eye towards such.
You're mixing things up. I was speaking in general. And Russia most definitely is engaged in propaganda and misinformation for the purpose of undermining democracy in the west. It is well known that it does so with massive troll farms, cyber attacks, sabotages, etc.
So, you clearly believe that the stakes are much higher than Ukraine repelling an invasion by the Russians
Yes, I am of that opinion. But ultimately what Ukraine does is Ukraine's decision.
I'm glad they choose to take a stand and try and fight of the Russians and we, as the democratic west, have a moral obligation to answer their call for help.
But if they were to choose to surrender and accept Russian rule and turn into Belarus 2.0, that would be their choice. I wouldn't like it and I think Europe most definitely should take action to guard themselves against the potential consequences of such, but I nevertheless would respect their decision.
, but yet, your cavalier "nope" earlier would suggest that you keep going back and forth on this point.
I don't go back and forward on this point at all.
I have my personal opinion while at the same time respect the decision made by Ukraine.
My
opinion is that they should fight and take a stand against invading tyrants to protect their sovereignty and democracy. It is also my opinion that the west has a moral obligation to answer their call for help.
My
opinion is also that what Ukraine does in response to that invasion is ultimately their decision. And we should respect that decision.
If they decide to surrender and turn into Belarus 2.0, I'ld be disappointed and it would be bad for Europe and by extension the entire democratic west at large. And we should take appropriate action in response. But respecting Ukraine's sovereignty also means accepting their choice even if we don't agree with it.
en.wikipedia.org
