Galatians 2:20

[Unveiled Artist]

Ear, cant make it shorter without loosing my points. I suggest we keep our points short. We are repeating ourselves.

The Bible does not tell us to die for others.

Legionomamai (if I spelled that right) answered my question perfectly (nicely, thank you), like this: "Paul is arguing that one must "die to the law" (we might say "be dead to the law") in order to live "with God".

I interpreted that scripture as when Paul says He has been crucified IN Christ, He is spiritually, I'll say, dying to His Sins. He is doing what Jesus did (Spiritually) when Jesus "died in the flesh" likewise Paul died in the flesh (His Sins). He was crucified IN Him NOT like Him.

As such, when Christians are crucified In Christ (die to the law and to their sins), they do what Christ did die for others. Christians are servants to Christ; thereby, our GREATEST sacrifice is to die for another person. If you cannot die for someone else even if it's as small as charity then how are you mirroring Christ that took the pain and died for all?

THAT IS NOT against the Bible.

We are to die to the sins of the world and live our lives through Christ, which means we are to live obeying Jesus.

Exactly

Rephrasing your post as summary: You gave info about bowing to statues; you admit you bow to the crucifix and alter; Catholics are wrong by calling their brothers 'father'; Catholics ask for Mary and saints to intercede.

I said because I was a devote Catholic, I knew what I did. This is my experience, my witness, and what I learned from the priest, from the catechism, from the Church, friends, AND from scripture.

1. Just me, but I would NOT insult any Catholic by the way they devote themselves TO CHRIST.

Having said that:

I bow to the Crucifix because it is respect to the Church. I bow when I go into the Buddhist temple when I practiced because it is respect to their culture. I bow to a lot of people at my home because it is respect to bow to others who are older than me.

When I pray IN FRONT OF not TO statues (which that's what God means, praying TO statues and putting THEM over HIM) Catholics pray to God.

For me, and I cannot speak for other Catholics, I die In Christ... when I see His mother IN SCRIPTURE hold her Son in her arms it makes me cry... because to loose a Son (physically) is painful. I lost my grandmother two months ago, and the pain is terrible in itself. What I do HAS NOTHING to do with the statue.

For me, I cannot speak for ALL Catholics, when I call my dad, father, it's out of respect. Like calling both Obama and the boss of a company president. When I call a priest f-ather, I do so in respect of him being a Elder of the Church. I also do that because he has taken the devotion to be completely devoted to God; I admire him for that. (I've said this already)

The meaning of the same word is different when applied to different people; English is funny like that.

When I had called God F-ather, I did so not just out of respect but because He is God. If anything He is MORE THAN a Father.

Any person who has taken up the devotion to serve God has my respect. In the Church, that title of respect is f-ather. So that is what I use.

Yes, Catholic's do ask Jesus' family, friends, and His disciples to interceded.

THE KEY TO WHAT GOD IS SAYING IS

1. Do not put any person over me. (Catholics do not put priests, Mary, saints, etc over God; that's silly)

2. Do not call anyone your FATHER (not father, since the only person who is the parent or FATHE of ALL is God. The term father is a title for any person who takes the role of a parent of a human, an elder of the Church, or any other role that denotes authority.)

It is not against scripture; you just disagree, big different.

Please tone your voice down.

When did you follow scripture? You stated that you never put Jesus over you.

I stated I see Jesus with the same divine nature as anyone else.

How can you say you are a Christian, or was a Christian when you put the words of Buddha before Jesus?

I never put the words of Buddha before Jesus. Buddha is not God; I do not worship Buddha.

You do not understand because you do not obey Jesus.

I do understand because I did obey Jesus. Sorry to burst your bubble. Not all people who knew Jesus want to continue following Him. In order to reject Jesus you have to know Him first.

Jesus says he reveals himself to those who obey.

/nods/

We get understanding after we obey. I have many scriptures that tells us that.

I've read the Bible. I understand what God says. I don't care for scriptures being forced on me as if that will change my relationship with Christ.

The Church believes that everyone who has taken the sacraments have a relationship with the Lord. If someone falls away from the Church, they do not kick them out. They feel each person is on their own spiritual walk and they have a POSITIVE view that some day that person will return to Christ.

I am grateful that the Church sees me in this light and welcomes me if I return to Christ. I don't care for many protestant Christians who tell me I did not know Jesus and I am wrong in what I believe. I value that I am on a spiritual walk as we are all. Please do not insult God by telling me how God sees me; God knows. No one else.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Please let us type shorter replies for now on. My computer messes up too.

Of course, it makes a difference. You are doing what God hates.

God hates that I'm praying to Him?

God says do not bow before them. You and all Catholics bow before statues.

God says that when He doesn't want people making Him into their own images whether it be people or things. Catholics do not do that. It is not like the Ten Commandments.

What is the context or message behind your disagreement with bowing? It can't just be because God said so.

Why are you running away from the truth? Don't bow down before statues.

No Christian has the claims to truth. Please don't place your morals on me.

Please don't force your false perceptions on me.

I get the same feeling that you are doing the same. I am sure we are just defending what we believe. However, Christians do not hold the claims to truth. Reminds me in the Roman days where they killed others for their disbelief. That's what some Christians do with their words. If you feel I'm forcing my perception on you, I'm sorry. Please don't murder me with your words and assumptions. That is how I feel and I feel insulted.

I am not a Protestant, and I do not accept false doctrines, I expose them. I do not have to suck up your false teachings, ever.

Protestants are non Catholics. You are not Catholic, right? So, by technicality, you are a protestant.

You don't have to. Second, why put it that way? Why can't you say more "I don't believe what you believe." What's up with the language? Why do you feel I'm forcing my beliefs on you? I told you why I feel like you're forcing your beliefs on me; what's up with that?

You contradict yourself, and , what don't you get about don't bow to statues?

How so? Sorry, I'll be repeating.

I am not Baptist, and making the sign of the cross is strange fire.

Baptist don't make the sign of the Cross. However, you don't seem to be Catholic; so, you are protestant--that's not a denomination. It's a category of different denominations and non-denominations that disagree and don't practice Catholic doctrine.

It isn't a dirty word.

It is plain and simple, do not call your brothers in Christ 'father'. It's simple. God says not to put people over Himself. So calling anyone THE Father is wrong. Calling people father is not a problem. What don't you get about don't do it?

Above

No one is changing the bread and wine into the real flesh and blood of Jesus.

Real as in His toes and fingers? Of course not.

By the way, it is very hard to reply to your posts. It slows down my computer. Can you quote the way we are supposed to?

You write long posts; so, it's hard to keep doing the

thing. My computer acts up too.

Please shorten your replies; so, my replies will be short.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"No, they do not.

By the way, it is very hard to reply to your posts. It slows down my computer. Can you quote the way we are supposed to ?" Since you write long posts, it's hard to do that and keep things consistent. I suggest we make shorter points and not repeat ourselves.

Yes, they do. There'd be no reason to take the Eucharist if they are not obeying Christ's Words.

 

[Yes]

I interpreted that scripture as when Paul says He has been crucified IN Christ, He is spiritually, I'll say, dying to His Sins. He is doing what Jesus did (Spiritually) when Jesus "died in the flesh" likewise Paul died in the flesh (His Sins). He was crucified IN Him NOT like Him.

Being crucified in Christ does not say we have to die for others.

I bow to the Crucifix because it is respect to the Church. I bow when I go into the Buddhist temple when I practiced because it is respect to their culture. I bow to a lot of people at my home because it is respect to bow to others who are older than me.

God says do not bow to statues. There is no excuse to do what God says not to do.

For me, and I cannot speak for other Catholics, I die In Christ... when I see His mother IN SCRIPTURE hold her Son in her arms it makes me cry... because to loose a Son (physically) is painful. I lost my grandmother two months ago, and the pain is terrible in itself. What I do HAS NOTHING to do with the statue.

Sorry to hear about your grandmother.
Praying to Mary to get to things from God is wrong.
Jesus is our only Interceder.

When I call a priest f-ather, I do so in respect of him being a Elder of the Church. I also do that because he has taken the devotion to be completely devoted to God; I admire him for that. (I've said this already)

You are going against God when you call your brothers in Christ ‘father’.

I never put the words of Buddha before Jesus. Buddha is not God; I do not worship Buddha.

You did put Buddha before Jesus when you say you will not do what God says then, and then quote Buddha for your reason why you will not do what God says.

I do understand because I did obey Jesus. Sorry to burst your bubble. Not all people who knew Jesus want to continue following Him. In order to reject Jesus you have to know Him first.

You did not know Jesus and you did not obey Jesus.
God says do not bow before statues. YOU bowed before statues.
God says do not call your brothers ‘father’. YOU call your brothers ‘father’.
God says Jesus is the only mediator. YOU use Mary and other “Saints”.
Jesus says you must not love anyone more than him. YOU say you cannot put Jesus before anyone.

I've read the Bible. I understand what God says. I don't care for scriptures being forced on me as if that will change my relationship with Christ.

Nowhere do the scriptures say you can know God by reading about Him. We are told many times that we have to do what Jesus says. So then, your reading without obeying is not right.

The Church believes that everyone who has taken the sacraments have a relationship with the Lord. If someone falls away from the Church, they do not kick them out. They feel each person is on their own spiritual walk and they have a POSITIVE view that some day that person will return to Christ.

I am grateful that the Church sees me in this light and welcomes me if I return to Christ. I don't care for many protestant Christians who tell me I did not know Jesus and I am wrong in what I believe. I value that I am on a spiritual walk as we are all. Please do not insult God by telling me how God sees me; God knows. No one else.

You told me how you do not obey God, and you told me why you do not obey God.

 

[Yes]

Please let us type shorter replies for now on. My computer messes up too.

You are the one making the long posts.

.

God says that when He doesn't want people making Him into their own images whether it be people or things. Catholics do not do that. It is not like the Ten Commandments.

What is the context or message behind your disagreement with bowing? It can't just be because God said so.

God says to watch yourselves and not make ANY image and bow to it.

Deuteronomy 4:15-17 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air,

No Christian has the claims to truth. Please don't place your morals on me.

Read the Bible. What does God say? God says do not bow to the works of your hands. God says do not make strange fire. God says do not call your brother 'father'.

I get the same feeling that you are doing the same. I am sure we are just defending what we believe. However, Christians do not hold the claims to truth. Reminds me in the Roman days where they killed others for their disbelief. That's what some Christians do with their words. If you feel I'm forcing my perception on you, I'm sorry. Please don't murder me with your words and assumptions. That is how I feel and I feel insulted.

You should feel thankful.
I want you to know God's Truth.

Protestants are non Catholics. You are not Catholic, right? So, by technicality, you are a protestant.

I am not a Protestant. I go against the teachings of the Protestants.

Baptist don't make the sign of the Cross. However, you don't seem to be Catholic; so, you are protestant--that's not a denomination. It's a category of different denominations and non-denominations that disagree and don't practice Catholic doctrine.

Protestants are a denomination.

You write long posts; so, it's hard to keep doing the

I do not write long posts. I am answering your long posts.

 

[Yes]

"No, they do not.

By the way, it is very hard to reply to your posts. It slows down my computer. Can you quote the way we are supposed to ?" Since you write long posts, it's hard to do that and keep things consistent. I suggest we make shorter points and not repeat ourselves.

Yes, they do. There'd be no reason to take the Eucharist if they are not obeying Christ's Words.

Please use the quote feature.

 

[BadDog]

"I have been crucified In Christ. Nevertheless, I live; yet, not I, but Christ lives in me. The life which I live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself up for me." ~Galations 2:20

This verse is what brought me to the Catholic Church three years ago before I stopped practicing Christianity altogether. I thought as I took the sacraments that I have been crucified in Christ--so I was crucified not just Christ. I live, not for myself, but for Christ. When I think of Christ, I think of Him doing the greatest sacrifice of them all, dying for someone else--which people in war do all the time. So, dying in Him is like I made the greatest sacrifice. So, I went on that the life I live in this body, I live now in my faith that I have died for others thereby as a daughter of God. Then it came to Christ loved me; and, I didn't understand that. I did understand that He gave Himself up for me as for all.

So dying in Christ is crucifying yourself In Him. It does not mean you let Him save you and you follow Him and try not to sin. That's not dying in Christ; that's letting Him do the dirty work. In this scripture it says you must die in Him so you can live.

For me, I find it hard to use someone else so that I can live with a pure mind and trying not to sin. That's just me. How do you see this verse? Do you believe that you must be crucified in Christ in order for Him to live in you? How do you interpret your salvation in Christ? We all have faith in our religions or relationships; but, the foundation of how we express and live those foundations are beyond the concept of having faith. So how do you view your salvation in your Savior?

Carlita,

Greetings! Nice thread. I think we should include the next verse for context:

Galatians 2:20, 21 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the flesh (essentially, "the body") I live by faith in the the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside God’s grace, because if righteousness could come through the law, then Christ died for nothing!​

Some Bibles translate the last part of vs. 20 as "I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God..." but I don't agree with that translation. PISTIS should in general be translated as "faith" rather than "faithfulness" unless the context clearly indicates otherwise.

Paul is saying that the life he was living in his body he lived by faith (2 Corinthians 5:7 - "we walk by faith") in Christ. He was trusting Christ daily. IOW, let's not overemphasize works. Christ died so that we could be imputed with righteousness as a gift. We also grow in Christ and walk daily by faith - trusting in God's sovereignty. This is not to say that works are not important in the Christian life, but we cannot follow Christ purely in our own strength of effort.

A couple of verses earlier Paul said that "we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus,so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law." So that is the context of verse 20. Paul was saying that Christ died in our place and that we were crucified with Him. Henceforth the life we live is by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God, according to Hebrews 11.

Anyway, that's my take on those verses, FWIW. BTW, the "sacraments" are simply a beautiful picture of our having died to sin and risen to follow Him.

BD

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you. Yes, the sacraments are a beautiful sign of that. Wonderfully stated. I was looking at the different bible translations of that verse. The one I posted wasn't the one I read a long time ago. However, yes, he's talking about dying to the flesh and having faith in Christ. I translated that dying to the flesh is another way of crucifying yourself In Christ so that you have faith in Him. I think I got the picture--thank you for giving me those context verses. They helped a lot.
----
I don't know if this is for me

Carlita,

Greetings! Nice thread. I think we should include the next verse for context:

Galatians 2:20, 21 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the flesh (essentially, "the body") I live by faith in the the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside God’s grace, because if righteousness could come through the law, then Christ died for nothing!​

Some Bibles translate the last part of vs. 20 as "I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God..." but I don't agree with that translation. PISTIS should in general be translated as "faith" rather than "faithfulness" unless the context clearly indicates otherwise.

Paul is saying that the life he was living in his body he lived by faith (2 Corinthians 5:7 - "we walk by faith") in Christ. He was trusting Christ daily. IOW, let's not overemphasize works. Christ died so that we could be imputed with righteousness as a gift. We also grow in Christ and walk daily by faith - trusting in God's sovereignty. This is not to say that works are not important in the Christian life, but we cannot follow Christ purely in our own strength of effort.

A couple of verses earlier Paul said that "we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus,so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law." So that is the context of verse 20. Paul was saying that Christ died in our place and that we were crucified with Him. Henceforth the life we live is by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God, according to Hebrews 11.

Anyway, that's my take on those verses, FWIW. BTW, the "sacraments" are simply a beautiful picture of our having died to sin and risen to follow Him.

BD

Galatians 2:20
"I am nailed to the stake along with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who is living in union with me. Indeed, the life that I no live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and handed himself over for me."

One of the principle things we can learn from this verse is that even though Christ died before Paul converted, he took the ransom personally.
Re-read, please, the same passage with emphasis on the word me.

Or we can break it down further.
"I am nailed to the stake along with Christ"
"For we know that our old personality was nailed to the sake along with him in order for our sinful body to be made powerless, so that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin." - Romans 6:6

"It is no longer I who live"
"Since Christ suffered in the flesh, you too arm yourselves with the same disposition; because the person who has suffered in the flesh has desisted from sins, so that he may live the remainder of his time in the flesh, no more for the desires of men, but for God's will." - 1 Peter 4:1,2

"I live by faith in the Son of God"
"And he died for all so that those who live should live no longer for themselves; but for him who died for them and was raised up." - 2 Corinthians 5:15

"the Son of God...handed himself over for me"
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all - this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time." - 1 Timothy 2:5,6

We could say that not only did Paul take the ransom personally, but that he also learned the principle of how to serve without amassing more regrets.[/QUOTE]

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You write to long posts to use that feature without my computer freezing up on me and loosing what I wrote. If we can shorten our points, then I can use the feature.

Please use the quote feature.

Galatians 2:20
"I am nailed to the stake along with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who is living in union with me. Indeed, the life that I no live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and handed himself over for me."

One of the principle things we can learn from this verse is that even though Christ died before Paul converted, he took the ransom personally.
Re-read, please, the same passage with emphasis on the word me.

Or we can break it down further.
"I am nailed to the stake along with Christ"
"For we know that our old personality was nailed to the sake along with him in order for our sinful body to be made powerless, so that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin." - Romans 6:6

"It is no longer I who live"
"Since Christ suffered in the flesh, you too arm yourselves with the same disposition; because the person who has suffered in the flesh has desisted from sins, so that he may live the remainder of his time in the flesh, no more for the desires of men, but for God's will." - 1 Peter 4:1,2

"I live by faith in the Son of God"
"And he died for all so that those who live should live no longer for themselves; but for him who died for them and was raised up." - 2 Corinthians 5:15

"the Son of God...handed himself over for me"
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all - this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time." - 1 Timothy 2:5,6

We could say that not only did Paul take the ransom personally, but that he also learned the principle of how to serve without amassing more regrets.[/QUOTE]

Please use the quote feature.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We are responding to each other in long posts. If WE shorten our points and learn from each other even though we disagree, that will make life easier. If the posts are too long, the quote function is tedious to do and it freezes my computer when I try to do it for every point you make.

So let's work together on this. I get what you're saying about the Not bowing to statues; intercessors; and a couple other things you said. I said my points. Can we at least learn from each other? Share our point of views from both of our beliefs without having the burden of truth rest in Christianity all the time?

You are the one making the long posts.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Now that I'm reading this over, why are we talking about the Catholic denomination? That's not what I asked in my original post and I do not practice the faith anymore. I get insulted when someone puts down what I used to practice--but that wasn't the point of my thread, so...

Carlita, I must tell you about the Catholic denomination.

If we want to be saved, we must do what Jesus says. Jesus says to obey.

The Catholics do not obey.

The Catholics call their brothers in Christ 'father'.

They also make images and bow to them.

The Catholics also use Mary and the other "Saints" to intercede for them to God.

They do many other things that God says not to do.

If you want God's Truth, then you must do what God says.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Or we can break it down further.
"I am nailed to the stake along with Christ"
"For we know that our old personality was nailed to the sake along with him in order for our sinful body to be made powerless, so that we should no longer go on being slaves to sin." - Romans 6:6

Yes, that's kind of how I saw it when I read Galatians. It's good hearing different points of view on it too.

 

[Yes]

So let's work together on this. I get what you're saying about the Not bowing to statues; intercessors; and a couple other things you said. I said my points. Can we at least learn from each other? Share our point of views from both of our beliefs without having the burden of truth rest in Christianity all the time?

What do you mean without having the burden of truth rest in Christianity?

 

[Yes]

Now that I'm reading this over, why are we talking about the Catholic denomination? That's not what I asked in my original post and I do not practice the faith anymore. I get insulted when someone puts down what I used to practice--but that wasn't the point of my thread, so...

You are here trying to teach about Jesus. I said the Bible says you have to obey Jesus to know Jesus. You said you do know Jesus and obeyed him but have left him. You said you were a Catholic. I have shown you that the Catholic denomination does not obey Jesus. You also said that you refuse to put Jesus above anyone, which Jesus tells us to do. Therefore, I do not believe that you know Jesus for you have not obeyed Jesus.
You obeyed the Catholic denomination, and that is not the same as obeying God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You are here trying to teach about Jesus.

I'm defending my point. I'm also was trying to get other people's opinion about salvation through Galatians 2:20.

I said the Bible says you have to obey Jesus to know Jesus.

I agree.

You said you do know Jesus and obeyed him but have left him.

Yes.

You said you were a Catholic.

Yes. I am still Catholic. The Church does not throw Christian's out their door. I do not practice--difference.

I have shown you that the Catholic denomination does not obey Jesus.

Oh that's where it got lost. I disagreed with you on the points you made against the Church. I repeat, some of the things I do feel uncomfortable with. These are some reason I do not practice.

You also said that you refuse to put Jesus above anyone, which Jesus tells us to do.

I followed/obeyed Jesus. So at that time, I put Jesus over everyone. I left the Church. I don't put Him over anyone else. I realize we are all the same no matter our station, title, and nature.

Therefore, I do not believe that you know, Jesus for you have not obeyed Jesus.

Fair enough. We disagree.

You obeyed the Catholic denomination, and that is not the same as obeying God.

You do not know my relationship is with the Catholic Church. You do not know how my relationship with God strengthened through the Church. You do not know that I did not obey God through the Church. You are just telling me what the Church teaches and that it is false and you are placing me in what you believe without asking me personally how I believe.

Also, many Christians think they have the claims to the truth. Many other religions respect people for their faith. It depends on the person, of course. In our conversation, the ball seems to be pushed in your direction.... because you are asking me to consider your point of you without equally considering mine.

 

[Yes]

You do not know my relationship is with the Catholic Church.

You explained a lot of it here.

You do not know how my relationship with God strengthened through the Church. You do not know that I did not obey God through the Church.

I do know because you explained it in this thread.

You are just telling me what the Church teaches and that it is false and you are placing me in what you believe without asking me personally how I believe.

I know what the Catholics believe.

Also, many Christians think they have the claims to the truth. Many other religions respect people for their faith. It depends on the person, of course. In our conversation, the ball seems to be pushed in your direction.... because you are asking me to consider your point of you without equally considering mine.

I know what you believe, because you told us all here in this thread.
You have defended the Catholic denomination.
You have admitted to bowing to statues.
You have admitted to calling your brothers 'father'.
You defended praying to Mary and the other 'Saints'.
You admitted to making the sign of the cross.

Those things are against God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You explained a lot of it here; I do know because you explained it in this thread.

Yes, and I can't write my whole relationship with God in a post.

I know what the Catholics believe.I know what you believe, because you told us all here in this thread.

Yes.

You have defended the Catholic denomination.

Yes

You have admitted to bowing to statues.

I said in front of statues; statues are not God. God said do not put images before Him.

You have admitted to calling your brothers 'father'.

Yes. As a title of respect just as my dad. He isn't THE Father.

You defended praying to Mary and the other 'Saints'.

I said Catholics do pray to Mary and other Saints. I pray to my grandparents. I never said I pray to Mary and the Saints.

You admitted to making the sign of the cross.

Of course. That's saying "I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." It's like raising your hands in church saying Praise the Lord together or something.

Those things are against God.

I can't speak for other Catholics. For me, as I keep saying, how I see my relationship with the Church is not against scripture.

If other Catholics are praying to Statues, praying to Saints to intercede in their prayer to Christ, that's there thing. I can only speak for me; I don't see it that way. I pray towards a statue. I do not pray to the saints. I am not Christian in protestant view. So now what?

 

[Yes]

Yes, and I can't write my whole relationship with God in a post.

You explained enough.

I said in front of statues; statues are not God. God said do not put images before Him.

God says not to bow to statues. You bow to the statues and or pictures at the altar of the Catholic church.

Yes. As a title of respect just as my dad. He isn't THE Father.

You show disrespect to God when you call your brother 'father'.

I said Catholics do pray to Mary and other Saints. I pray to my grandparents. I never said I pray to Mary and the Saints.

You defend a denomination that prays to Mary and the other Saints. You say you pray to your grandparents. These things are against God.

Of course. That's saying "I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." It's like raising your hands in church saying Praise the Lord together or something.

I can't speak for other Catholics. For me, as I keep saying, how I see my relationship with the Church is not against scripture.

If other Catholics are praying to Statues, praying to Saints to intercede in their prayer to Christ, that's there thing. I can only speak for me; I don't see it that way. I pray towards a statue. I do not pray to the saints. I am not Christian in protestant view. So now what?

Why is it so hard for you?
Resist losing focus on the Truth.
YOU BOW BEFORE STATUES God says not to do that.[/QUOTE]

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Key note: Since this is a general religious forum, each person has their own right to say what they feel is true. I like to learn from people who differ than me but not from people who insult my faith regardless if its former or present.

You explained enough.

Thank you.

God says not to bow to statues. You bow to the statues and or pictures at the altar of the Catholic church.

When people bowed to statues in the Bible, they were worshiping the statues. They put the statues in place of God that is why it is against scripture.

If what you are saying is true....then God doesn't want us to pray in front of anything (wall; pulpit; kitchen), really. Because His interpretation of what we face would be interpreted to Him as worship.

You show disrespect to God when you call your brother 'father'.

I don't understand how you don't get that English uses one word with multiple meanings. God does not want people calling anyone Father (THE Father). He doesn't want us to call each other God. (1st commandment) It's rare you will find a Catholic calling a priest, God. Priest don't consider themselves God. So when they use father they are not referring to God, they are referring to the priest as an Elder in the Church.

I don't think you will understand that, though. We'll have to disagree.

You defend a denomination that prays to Mary and the other Saints.

I can only defend them to a certain point. I am not another person, so I don't know if they are praying for help, praying in memory of their loved one, if they are thinking of the things the Saints did so that they can model them as they modeled Christ. I don't know. I cannot speak for others. I just know that not all Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints. Most Catholics I know do not believe that anyone dies anyway.

You say you pray to your grandparents. These things are against God.

Yes, it is. My grandmother died two months ago and I do not believe she is "dead". Please do not go into this.... let's move on.

Why is it so hard for you?
Resist losing focus on the Truth.
YOU BOW BEFORE STATUES God says not to do that.

Resist losing focus on the truth? Whose's truth? We can't say God because you and I need a common foundation of truth that we agree on so we know who is losing focus and who is not. Since we disagree with scripture's depiction of the nature of God, that statement does not apply to me. That's putting your beliefs on me; please don't do that.

If you cannot learn from someone else who believes different than you, respect them, and consider the validity of their beliefs even though you disagree,then it would be hard for you to discuss religion at all if you believe that your faith should win over the discussion.

 

[Yes]

Key note: Since this is a general religious forum, each person has their own right to say what they feel is true. I like to learn from people who differ than me but not from people who insult my faith regardless if its former or present.



Thank you.

When people bowed to statues in the Bible, they were worshiping the statues. They put the statues in place of God that is why it is against scripture.

If what you are saying is true....then God doesn't want us to pray in front of anything (wall; pulpit; kitchen), really. Because His interpretation of what we face would be interpreted to Him as worship.

I don't understand how you don't get that English uses one word with multiple meanings. God does not want people calling anyone Father (THE Father). He doesn't want us to call each other God. (1st commandment) It's rare you will find a Catholic calling a priest, God. Priest don't consider themselves God. So when they use father they are not referring to God, they are referring to the priest as an Elder in the Church.

I don't think you will understand that, though. We'll have to disagree.

I can only defend them to a certain point. I am not another person, so I don't know if they are praying for help, praying in memory of their loved one, if they are thinking of the things the Saints did so that they can model them as they modeled Christ. I don't know. I cannot speak for others. I just know that not all Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints. Most Catholics I know do not believe that anyone dies anyway.


Yes, it is. Let's move on from the praying to people who are not hear on earth anymore.


Resit losing focus on the truth? That doesn't apply to me. This is putting your morals and beliefs on me to defend your point.

If you cannot learn from someone else who believes different than you and respect them for their differences then it would be hard for you to discuss religion at all if you believe that your faith should win over the discussion.

Tell me, how do Catholics obey this:

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

Matthew 23:8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Catholics call their brothers 'father', and their 'fathers' call each other 'father'.

I will tell you how I obey Jesus: I do not call my brothers in Christ 'father'.

Your turn.

Now, tell me how Catholics obey this when it comes to infants:

Mark 1:15 "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!"

Catholics baptize infants who cannot repent and believe.

I will tell you how I obey Jesus: I got baptized when I could repent and believe.

Your turn.

Tell me how do Catholics obey this:

Acts 10:25 As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.

Acts 10:26 But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."

Catholics bow to their pope.

I do not bow to any other Christian.

Your turn.

How do Catholics obey this:

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
Catholics pray to Mary and their other "saints".

I pray only to Jesus.

Your turn.

How do Catholics obey this:

Leviticus 26:1 "'You must not make for yourselves idols, so you must not set up for yourselves a carved image or a pillar, and you must not place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down before it, for I am the LORD your God.

Catholic bow to their statues.

I do not bow to any statue.

Your turn.