Gaming website tells the internet misogynist horde to jog on.

[Alceste]

Far as I can tell, the dude Zoe Quinn slept with never actually critiqued her game.

BTW, someone who develops a game is a game developer, even if the game is trash. Someone who writes about those games is a journalist. Total impartiality is impossible in all instances, anyway.

The MRA / red pill crowd is more organized than you'd think. They have drill sergeants telling angry gamers how to spin the message to deflect from the obvious fact that this whole retarded hooplah is nothing but a misogynistic **** shaming campaign against an individual game developer.

They also tell their followers who to attack, and how, so that when a developer or journalist is swarmed, it's an avalanche of hate all at once, rather than an occasional, soon to be forgotten blip on the radar.

The effect is that many of the targeted women have quit developing games or reporting on them because of online harassment. OTOH, many other women have been inspired to begin, so it's like they're trying to put out a fire by smothering it with gasoline.

 

[Alceste]

I just separate the drama from the woman. As far as I can tell, the bulk of the people who harassed Sarkeesian never actually watched her videos, and so are uninformed about their contents.

Meanwhile, developers are watching her videos, agreeing with her points and changing their game design to be more inclusive.

One thing the anti-woman horde misjudges is just how much pressure developers are under to produce something that is both innovative and broadly appealing. It's almost impossible to succeed in this industry if you just keep rehashing the same old tropes and storylines, and it's a fatal mistake to miscalculate the demographic you are marketing to.

For years, developers have been unconsciously assuming they are making games for nobody but socially awkward teenage boys, since that has always been the stereotype of a "gamer". When issues like this one flare up, certain facts come out that are impossible to ignore, such as the fact that women pay more for games than men, and roughly half the people playing games are women.

One of the publishers I had approached with our first game wrote back with the message that their target demographic is 30-40 year old women. He wrote that in order to appeal to those gamers, we should include some kind of narrative hook in our game, which he otherwise found very enjoyable and promising. We didn't have the resources to do that, but we took the feedback to heart and we are keeping it in mind for our next game. He obviously knew more about the market than I do - I was surprised how specific he was.

Anyway, that's what's going on at the developer / publisher level. I absolutely love that it's the exact opposite of what the horde intends to achieve.

 

[Alceste]

A little food for thought for anyone who really thinks this crusade has anything to do with "journalistic ethics"...

Zoe Quinn’s screenshots of 4chan’s dirty tricks were just the appetizer. Here’s the first course of the dinner, directly from the IRC log | we hunted the mammoth

"On Twitter, the standard line of the #GamerGate partisans is that what they’re doing isn’t abut Quinn herself; its a protest against corruption and nepotism in the video game world. They also insist that they’re not motivated by misogyny, and that they are more concerned about the alleged ethical lapses of game journalists than they are with just who Zoe Quinn allegedly slept with.

When it comes to the 4channers in #burgersandfries, these claims are complete and utter ********. The name “Zoe” appears 4778 times in the document, more than once per page; by contrast, “Nathan” – the first name of the allegedly corrupt game journalist she allegedly slept with – appears only 108 times. The words “ethics” and “ethical” appear, collectively, only 146 times."

The rest is basically violent rape and murder fantasies, an open and gleeful desire to ruin her career and reputation, and excited speculation over whether their harassment campaign might actually push her to kill herself.

 

[Flankerl]

I haven't played Depression Quest, but it IS possible that it is a genuinely interesting game to play and to write about. That's much more likely than the suggestion that you need to bang somebody to get a favorable review, don't you think?

Its a text adventure. I still remember those from the video game magazines in the 90s.
And even by then they were rare.

Welcome in the 2010s, write a short story and put the text into code. "I madez a game, hear read"

A little food for thought for anyone who really thinks this crusade has anything to do with "journalistic ethics"...

Zoe Quinn’s screenshots of 4chan’s dirty tricks were just the appetizer. Here’s the first course of the dinner, directly from the IRC log | we hunted the mammoth




The rest is basically violent rape and murder fantasies, an open and gleeful desire to ruin her career and reputation, and excited speculation over whether their harassment campaign might actually push her to kill herself.

Wait are those the logs Zoey edited?

Far as I can tell, the dude Zoe Quinn slept with never actually critiqued her game.

Yes Kotaku has shown to be completely impartial about the whole topic.

lol

I just separate the drama from the woman. As far as I can tell, the bulk of the people who harassed Sarkeesian never actually watched her videos, and so are uninformed about their contents.

Thats funny because she never played the games either.

 

[Alceste]

Its a text adventure. I still remember those from the video game magazines in the 90s.
And even by then they were rare.

Welcome in the 2010s, write a short story and put the text into code. "I madez a game, hear read"

I've done it. Text adventures are fun to write because it cuts down the indie development time by like, two years. lol.

Whether you're interested in text adventure games or not, it's still legitimately newsworthy for the gaming press when someone does it well, or with an interesting spin. I liked them in the 80s and I still like them now.

I personally think Depression Quest was done well. If I were a game reporter, I would probably write about it even if nobody offered to suck my non-existent schlong in exchange. That you find that impossible to imagine says more about you than it does about Kotaku.

Wait are those the logs Zoey edited?

No. Obviously you didn't click the link. She didn't edit anything. The screen shots are genuine and not so hard to find if you feel like searching the 5000 page IRC log. Also, you can find similar sentiments on every page, so you don't even have to look for the particular excerpts Zoe captured to get the gist of where this manufactured controversy is coming from and the type of people who are promoting it.

I'm not surprised you're throwing your support behind the internet hate machine given the general tone of your posts. OTOH, I do think it might be worth your time to take a look at what you are supporting before you continue to pursue this "devil's advocate" course you've set yourself upon.

Unless of course violent rape and murder fantasies of women who get more sex and attention than you are what you're into. If that's the case, you'll fit right in.

Yes Kotaku has shown to be completely impartial about the whole topic.

The entire gaming press has called this whole misogynistic harassment campaign a steaming pile of pig manure from the start. Do you think she's slept with ALL of them?

Thats funny because she never played the games either.

Sarkeesian wasn't much of a gamer at the start of her research, that's true. She plays quite a bit now and her growing familiarity with the art form is reflected in her newer videos. This is according to the developers I know who are following her on Youtube (aka, most developers).

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes Kotaku has shown to be completely impartial about the whole topic.

What's Kotaku got to do with anything? I don't follow that website at all.

I specifically said "far as I can tell", because it's as "far as I can tell". Frankly, I hesitate to make any absolute statements on this particular issue at this time, since there's so much bile and hate being thrown around that I don't think we can really trust any of what's being said.

Thats funny because she never played the games either.

She's a fan of Mario and Zelda. I think we can therefore assume she's played the most important games of those franchises.

As for the others, she doesn't criticize gameplay, but setting and narrative content that appears way too much across hundreds of games. Therefore, she doesn't need to actually play them. All that content is available on the internet in the form of Let's Plays, walkthroughs (video and text), and dozens of articles on this particular subject. Whether she's played them or not isn't relevant.

This isn't like those politicians who thought Night Trap was a game where the player is supposed to kidnap and murder young women, but never actually played the game. Back then, the only way to know what a game's contents were for sure was BY playing it. Nowadays, thanks to Youtube, it's not necessary.

Besides, I actually have watched her videos, and she's clearly quite informed on the subject.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sarkeesian wasn't much of a gamer at the start of her research, that's true.

I actually wonder about that.

She said in her first video about games that she's played Mario and Zelda since she was a child. Sure, in a video she did years ago, she said explicitly that she's "not a gamer", but I suspect that she may have been simply saying that she doesn't play modern games, or participate much in the culture; in addition to trying to distance herself from a culture that's historically not ever been terribly friendly to women, except during the run of Buffy.

 

[Alceste]

I actually wonder about that.

She said in her first video about games that she's played Mario and Zelda since she was a child. Sure, in a video she did years ago, she said explicitly that she's "not a gamer", but I suspect that she may have been simply saying that she doesn't play modern games, or participate much in the culture; in addition to trying to distance herself from a culture that's historically not ever been terribly friendly to women, except during the run of Buffy.

That's quite possibly true. I'm actually just parroting the opinion of my developer husband, who has been watching her videos from the beginning and knows much more about the subject than I do.

He's been outraged by this whole fiasco. Games are something he's very passionate about, and **** shaming is also something he's passionately against. It's the perfect storm.

 

[Alceste]

Further to the above post, I wasn't much of a gamer either. Because of this nonsense I'm getting much more into it than I ever was out of a feeling of solidarity with developers. The horde is not only attacking an individual developer, but also any developer or reporter - male or female - who expresses sympathy and support. I figured it's past time I get to know their art form a little better.

 

[Flankerl]

What's Kotaku got to do with anything? I don't follow that website at all.

Well lets just say some of their male staff are "involved".

She's a fan of Mario and Zelda. I think we can therefore assume she's played the most important games of those franchises.

My dad has played Zelda and Mario back in the days, i wouldnt call him an expert on them or for him to recall anything about them.

She's in her 20s, it'd be sad if she had never played Zelda or Mario before.

Oh and her critique on Mario and Zelda was stupid.

Besides, I actually have watched her videos, and she's clearly quite informed on the subject.

No she isnt. She claims that certain themes within games lead to advance certain ideas in the general population. And that is beyond stupid.
I've saved Zelda more often than i can count. Did i only not turn into a damsel because i simultaneously played Fatal Fury, Metroid, KoF and Double Dragon?
Oh wait you rescue your girlfriend in DD, which is bad i guess.

Its basically the same stupid example with that GTA hating politician who claims that GTA leads to higher violence in the world. No it doesnt.

in addition to trying to distance herself from a culture that's historically not ever been terribly friendly to women, except during the run of Buffy.

Ugh. I've been playing games ever since the age of 4. Not even in her wildest dreams could Anita play as much as i've ever played.

And guess what iam not a gamer. Iam a human being who sometimes plays video games.

To act like an expert on the topic because you've read about it is beyond lame.

 

[Flankerl]

I've done it. Text adventures are fun to write because it cuts down the indie development time by like, two years. lol.

Whether you're interested in text adventure games or not, it's still legitimately newsworthy for the gaming press when someone does it well, or with an interesting spin. I liked them in the 80s and I still like them now.

I personally think Depression Quest was done well. If I were a game reporter, I would probably write about it even if nobody offered to suck my non-existent schlong in exchange. That you find that impossible to imagine says more about you than it does about Kotaku.

Its just a wall of text.

Lets hope the next crash comes soon. All that unimaginative cancer has to go away.

No. Obviously you didn't click the link. She didn't edit anything. The screen shots are genuine and not so hard to find if you feel like searching the 5000 page IRC log. Also, you can find similar sentiments on every page, so you don't even have to look for the particular excerpts Zoe captured to get the gist of where this manufactured controversy is coming from and the type of people who are promoting it.

I'm not surprised you're throwing your support behind the internet hate machine given the general tone of your posts. OTOH, I do think it might be worth your time to take a look at what you are supporting before you continue to pursue this "devil's advocate" course you've set yourself upon.

Unless of course violent rape and murder fantasies of women who get more sex and attention than you are what you're into. If that's the case, you'll fit right in.

Actually i've seen the logs she had manipulated but i dont really care enough about it to check if these are the same.

Violent IRC logs? Welcome to the internet. Back when myspace was still a thing a couple of guys swore to rape and murder me on a regular basis.

But kids its just the internet. Watch some Meanwhile in Russia videos suka bljad!

The entire gaming press has called this whole misogynistic harassment campaign a steaming pile of pig manure from the start. Do you think she's slept with ALL of them?

Its actually quite sad that the entire gaming press seems to be new to the internet. All of this didnt exist prior to Web 2.0... the good ol days.

Sarkeesian wasn't much of a gamer at the start of her research, that's true. She plays quite a bit now and her growing familiarity with the art form is reflected in her newer videos. This is according to the developers I know who are following her on Youtube (aka, most developers).

Probably doesnt even know what the Konami code is.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well lets just say some of their male staff are "involved".

Well, since I have absolutely no connection to Kotaku, I fail to see the relevance.

My dad has played Zelda and Mario back in the days, i wouldnt call him an expert on them or for him to recall anything about them.

She's in her 20s, it'd be sad if she had never played Zelda or Mario before.

Oh and her critique on Mario and Zelda was stupid.

I felt it was quite accurate.

Besides, she said that she's been playing them since she was a child. It's not recalling information from childhood; it's recalling recent memories in addition to doing research.

No she isnt. She claims that certain themes within games lead to advance certain ideas in the general population. And that is beyond stupid.
I've saved Zelda more often than i can count. Did i only not turn into a damsel because i simultaneously played Fatal Fury, Metroid, KoF and Double Dragon?
Oh wait you rescue your girlfriend in DD, which is bad i guess.

Its basically the same stupid example with that GTA hating politician who claims that GTA leads to higher violence in the world. No it doesnt.

No it doesn't, and that's not what she's saying.

Art does subtly influence our thinking. Some people are more susceptible to this influence than others (I'm HIGHLY susceptible to artistic influence). This influence, however, is negligible in the vast majority of cases. Violent video games do not turn perfectly-behaved children into mass murderers, and neither do sexist tropes in games make rapists out of otherwise respectable people. However, this influence is NOT negligible if it has other reinforcements throughout society. I don't know what it's like in Germany, but in the US, sexism is rampant in all our media and cultural outlooks. It's so bad that even those of us who identify as feminists could accidentally do or say something sexist without realizing it. Hence why the same game can have both progressive and regressive elements.

Besides, those politicians actually want to get GTA off the shelves and censor violent games. Sarkeesian never advocated such a thing. There's a HUGE difference between promoting censorship, and promoting artistic responsibility.

Perhaps it's the bad memories of those politicians that the Straw Man is taking advantage of, by making a lot of gamers think she's arguing something she's not.

Ugh. I've been playing games ever since the age of 4. Not even in her wildest dreams could Anita play as much as i've ever played.

And guess what iam not a gamer. Iam a human being who sometimes plays video games.

To act like an expert on the topic because you've read about it is beyond lame.

Who ever said anything about being an expert? Should one only ever express an opinion in a semi-academic format if one is an expert?

Violent IRC logs? Welcome to the internet. Back when myspace was still a thing a couple of guys swore to rape and murder me on a regular basis.

And you don't think that sort of bile should be fought against?

Probably doesnt even know what the Konami code is.

Irrelevant either way. I didn't know about the Konami code until after I graduated High School. Still a gamer.

Do you know the BARACUDA code? Without looking it up?

 

[Flankerl]

Well, since I have absolutely no connection to Kotaku, I fail to see the relevance.

Yeah its okay.

I felt it was quite accurate.

Besides, she said that she's been playing them since she was a child. It's not recalling information from childhood; it's recalling recent memories in addition to doing research.

You know i would rewatch the video if i could bring myself to do so. But i'll have to sleep soon so that might be a bad idea.

No it doesn't, and that's not what she's saying.

Art does subtly influence our thinking. Some people are more susceptible to this influence than others (I'm HIGHLY susceptible to artistic influence). This influence, however, is negligible in the vast majority of cases. Violent video games do not turn perfectly-behaved children into mass murderers, and neither do sexist tropes in games make rapists out of otherwise respectable people. However, this influence is NOT negligible if it has other reinforcements throughout society. I don't know what it's like in Germany, but in the US, sexism is rampant in all our media and cultural outlooks. It's so bad that even those of us who identify as feminists could accidentally do or say something sexist without realizing it. Hence why the same game can have both progressive and regressive elements.

Besides, those politicians actually want to get GTA off the shelves and censor violent games. Sarkeesian never advocated such a thing. There's a HUGE difference between promoting censorship, and promoting artistic responsibility.

Perhaps it's the bad memories of those politicians that the Straw Man is taking advantage of, by making a lot of gamers think she's arguing something she's not.

Artistic responsibility? Can you people please gtfo? I dont like CoD. Guess what i just dont play it and dont go on a crusade to change CoD into something i want it to be.
And its incredibly easy. Magic.

You want an important gaming topic? Harvest Moon has been bad ever since Harvest Moon 64. This needs to be addressed asap.

Who ever said anything about being an expert? Should one only ever express an opinion in a semi-academic format if one is an expert?

Well if one has no clue about the topic it might be better to be a philosopher(say nothing).

And you don't think that sort of bile should be fought against?

No because iam not a damn newbie to the internet. Mean stuff gets said. Such is life. 1st world problem right here.

Meanwhile right now a girl is being led into a hut or tent and her Vagina is being mutilated.
Oh now again.
And now somewhere a girl with a mutilated vagina gets opened up by her husband and cries because of all the pain.

This is important. Bullcrap Anita is annoyed by isnt and never will be.

Irrelevant either way. I didn't know about the Konami code until after I graduated High School. Still a gamer.

Do you know the BARACUDA code? Without looking it up?

Sega better burn in hell for inventing Sonic with its horrible fanbase.

 

[dust1n]

Just read that thread and still have not the slightest clue whats going on.

 

[Flankerl]

Crazy person claims that certain behavior towards female pixels in a video game have a "profound impact" on real life women without citing a scientific paper.

Conclusion: Is obviously too stupid to play Hitman.

 

[dust1n]

Crazy person claims that certain behavior towards female pixels in a video game have a "profound impact" on real life women without citing a scientific paper.

Conclusion: Is obviously too stupid to play Hitman.

That didn't clarify anything at all. Was that an attempt to, or something?

 

[Alceste]

Just read that thread and still have not the slightest clue whats going on.

Sorry I didn't deliver the back story. A woman made a game that was well received by critics. Later, her ex posted a lengthy, angry novella on his blog airing all their boring relationship drama.

4Chan got hold of the post and commenced an unprecedented, highly organized **** shaming and harassment campaign against the developer and anyone associated with or sympathetic toward her in any way, with the openly expressed hope that they could make her kill herself.

As a result, both the gaming press and a majority of developers are utterly disgusted with /v/ and gaming culture in general, and are trying to do a better job representing and catering for women in their games and workplaces.

 

[Alceste]

Crazy person claims that certain behavior towards female pixels in a video game have a "profound impact" on real life women without citing a scientific paper.

Conclusion: Is obviously too stupid to play Hitman.

Funny, I don't recall you ever having cited a paper in all your years on RF. I had no idea you were into that sort of thing.

 

[dust1n]

Sorry I didn't deliver the back story. A woman made a game that was well received by critics. Later, her ex posted a lengthy, angry novella on his blog airing all their boring relationship drama.

Oh, so this stuff about sleeping with a game critic or something had little to no relevancy here?

4Chan got hold of the post and commenced an unprecedented, highly organized **** shaming and harassment campaign against the developer and anyone associated with or sympathetic toward her in any way, with the openly expressed hope that they could make her kill herself.

Yea, I don't doubt that in the slightest.

As a result, both the gaming press and a majority of developers are utterly disgusted with /v/ and gaming culture in general, and are trying to do a better job representing and catering for women in their games and workplaces.

Alright, I think I got the gist then.

 

[Alceste]

Oh, so this stuff about sleeping with a game critic or something had little to no relevancy here?



Yea, I don't doubt that in the slightest.



Alright, I think I got the gist then.

The haters wanted their harassment campaign to appear to be something other than what it was, and settled on the fact that one of the men the developer dated later went on to write for a popular gaming site. Using this tenuous connection, they tried to spin their rape and death threats, hacking, harassment and efforts to push a woman with a history of depression into killing herself as some kind of campaign against corruption in the gaming press.

Don't bother looking for anything deeper than that. There isn't anything. The IRC where the harassment was plotted is public now and they've openly admitted to all of the above.