Gaming website tells the internet misogynist horde to jog on.

[Sha'irullah]

I am sick of this Sarkesian troll, I honestly am. I have heard not a single good thing come from here mouth and most of it is just borderline psychotic to some extent. She is the Alex Jones of the gaming world and the David Icke of the Feminist world but modern day Feminism is just troll orientated anyways. I am happy I have never had to deal with feminists in real life(except for one time).

Complaining over a male dominated industry that caters to males because it is male run, male used and male abused is like a woman complaining that Trojan does not produce "male" condoms for women.

Sarkeesian just needs to shut up and stop making women look stupid because trolling is like 60% of Feminism along with PETA and the rest is just, dare I say it; emotionally unstable individuals.


if Sarkeesian wants to stop being a test tube of worthless estrogen she should start being vocal on how men are portrayed in romantic comedies, sitcoms, vampire films, tween movies, and dramas. Then again I keep forgetting that a lot of that stuff has a particular crowd? Could it be women? Hmmm, maybe so

 

[Alceste]

Creating The Means For The Production


*Vivian James is the character that 4chan users created for the game that will be produced.


That is interesting, because it isn't the picture I've gotten... There seems to be some real positive movement happening in line with "GamerGate"; things like the Escapist(actually their parent company which spans many topics) changing their ethics guidelines.

Are there misogynist gamers? Absolutely, likely far more per capita than in other communities... but as a gaming enthusiast, there are very real problems within gaming journalism that need to be addressed(I haven't sought out a review in over a decade because of the lack of integrity)... and that is what's boiling over. Shouting about misogyny is a deflection of what it has become about.

I'm not sure what that means - "make a game for a woman". Your link doesn't make it any more clear. Can you tell me what "making a game for a woman" would entail? As far as I'm aware, the issue is that women who make games routinely get death and rape threats from an organized horde of misogynists emanating from 4Chan. "Making a game for a woman" isn't ... relevant.

Was "Vivian" created by a woman? Was any female artist compensated for her participation in the "Vivian" project? Or is it, as my gamedev hubby asserts, a female character created by a bunch of vile misogynists who are desperate to show the world their rape and death threats to Zoe Quinn and their excitement to see if they can make her kill herself are not an affront to women in general?

I agree that there are real problems in gaming journalism. I've been at this a while, and I intimately know that you generally have to pay to be positively reviewed, unless your work gets a lot of hype at indie conferences. What you DON'T have to do to be positively reviewed is bang somebody in the gaming press.

What I don't understand is why "gamers" sat silent and contented for about a decade while indie developers like myself and my husband struggled against a pervasive "pay for coverage" business model in the gaming press, then suddenly found their "ethics" immediately after a jilted ex of a female developer vented his complaints about their relationship online. Nor do I get why they couldn't vent their ethical complaints vis a vis the gaming press without sending rape and death threats to the developer in question and fantasizing about harassing her into suicide.

 

[Alceste]

It is quite complicated to think of a big title that involves a good storytelling AND no fighting/killing things as the main core of gameplay. If you further request for credible female characters, it just...

I have played a lot of games and I can think only of two ( popular ) games that could possibly fit that: Gone Home and Mirror's Edge. And even so, the first one is more storytelling than anything else, while the latter still does involve fighting up to a certain extent.

You need to branch out.

 

[Koldo]

You need to branch out.

Towards what direction?

 

[Son of The Gods]

[youtube]ddwK7wU3vxc[/youtube]
Feminism & Women's Rights (Titanfall Gameplay Commentary w/ Face Cam) - YouTube

This youtuber explains my stance to the point.

 

[Alceste]

Towards what direction?

Towards portal, myst, brothers...

 

[Alceste]

[youtube]ddwK7wU3vxc[/youtube]
Feminism & Women's Rights (Titanfall Gameplay Commentary w/ Face Cam) - YouTube

This youtuber explains my stance to the point.

He doesn't know what he's talking about. I stopped listening when he totally cocked up explaining third wave feminism. For you:

Third-wave feminism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What he described does not exist. To the extent it resembles any actual feminist ideas, the idea that "all men are rapists" is second wave, not third, and you have to be deliberately obtuse to see it even there.

 

[Koldo]

Towards portal, myst, brothers...

Hmm....credible female characters on Portal and Brothers?
Do you mean GLaDOS and... that girl ( for spoiler reasons I won't go into detail ) from Brothers?
Both are abstractions of women, like a blurred mirror.

I thought you wanted something more than that. But I can see where you are coming from now.

[ I have never played Myst, so I can't comment on that one. ]

 

[Alceste]

Hmm....credible female characters on Portal and Brothers?
Do you mean GLaDOS and... that girl ( for spoiler reasons I won't go into detail ) from Brothers?
Both are abstractions of women, like a blurred mirror.

I thought you wanted something more than that. But I can see where you are coming from now.

[ I have never played Myst, so I can't comment on that one. ]

I was talking about story development and good game design that doesn't involve fighting. But I suppose you are female in Portal, come to think of it.

Plus the girl in Brothers is totally credible. Lol.

 

[Smart_Guy]

One of my favorite games of all time Metroid has the lead character a woman

 

[Koldo]

I was talking about story development and good game design that doesn't involve fighting. But I suppose you are female in Portal, come to think of it.

You are. But, being female is of no consequence on that game.

Plus the girl in Brothers is totally credible. Lol.

In a way...

Both of these games involve some form of fighting at some points though, however shaped as more like a puzzle.

There are some other good games that follow a similar formula ( 3D interaction with nearly no fighting + plot focused ) that I can easily mention, but they are focused mostly on the male protagonist: Fahrenheit ( PS2 ) and Silent Hill: Shattered Memories ( PS2 ).

 

[Koldo]

One of my favorite games of all time Metroid has the lead character a woman

Indeed. But she is mostly silent, and it involves a lot of killing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

He doesn't know what he's talking about. I stopped listening when he totally cocked up explaining third wave feminism. For you:

Third-wave feminism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What he described does not exist. To the extent it resembles any actual feminist ideas, the idea that "all men are rapists" is second wave, not third, and you have to be deliberately obtuse to see it even there.

Seriously, that guy has obviously never heard of Mary Daly, Sheila Jeffreys, Robin Morgan, Andrea Dworkin, etc. "Old white women's feminism". That's the stupid kind that everyone hates on.

 

[Mister Emu]

I'm not sure what that means - "make a game for a woman". Your link doesn't make it any more clear. Can you tell me what "making a game for a woman" would entail? As far as I'm aware, the issue is that women who make games routinely get death and rape threats from an organized horde of misogynists emanating from 4Chan. "Making a game for a woman" isn't ... relevant.

Get female designed game, get funding, produce said female's game... how is that not clear?

Helping a charity that is about getting a woman into the industry... not relevant in a discussion about whether gamergate is about pushing women out of the industry... yeah...

I'm not saying that bad stuff doesn't happen... given what I know of 4chan I'd be far more surprised if it wasn't. But for every one who is on about "women" or specific women there are ten telling him to shut up, and another ten calling them out as being false operators.

This isn't about gender anymore, it is about improving the cesspool that is games media.

Was "Vivian" created by a woman? Was any female artist compensated for her participation in the "Vivian" project?

I specifically said the character was created by 4chan. So however many anonymous females contributed... "the Vivian project", you aren't making sense.

I starred that so that you, displaying a surface understanding of the situation, would know that Vivian James was a character being introduced to the game.

Or is it, as my gamedev hubby asserts, a female character created by a bunch of vile misogynists who are desperate

They can't win... if the act of supporting a feminist charity with the express purpose of introducing women into the industry does not show that it is not about keeping women of the industry...

What I don't understand is why "gamers" sat silent and contented for about a decade while indie developers like myself and my husband struggled against a pervasive "pay for coverage" business model in the gaming press, then suddenly found their "ethics" immediately after a jilted ex of a female developer vented his complaints about their relationship online. Nor do I get why they couldn't vent their ethical complaints vis a vis the gaming press without sending rape and death threats to the developer in question and fantasizing about harassing her into suicide.

Do you understand what boil-over means? This was seen as a small puncture to the balloon, that is now bursting. Game reviews being glorified advertisements, nepotism, game "journalists" decrying objectivity as a goal of journalism, taking their lying friends' word about being harassed(horribly ironically leading to a group of depressives being victimised) without actually, you know, being a journalist and checking. Hopefully it all comes down.

 

[Alceste]

Get female designed game, get funding, produce said female's game... how is that not clear?

Helping a charity that is about getting a woman into the industry... not relevant in a discussion about whether gamergate is about pushing women out of the industry... yeah...

I'm not saying that bad stuff doesn't happen... given what I know of 4chan I'd be far more surprised if it wasn't. But for every one who is on about "women" or specific women there are ten telling him to shut up, and another ten calling them out as being false operators.

This isn't about gender anymore, it is about improving the cesspool that is games media.

I specifically said the character was created by 4chan. So however many anonymous females contributed... "the Vivian project", you aren't making sense.

I starred that so that you, displaying a surface understanding of the situation, would know that Vivian James was a character being introduced to the game.


They can't win... if the act of supporting a feminist charity with the express purpose of introducing women into the industry does not show that it is not about keeping women of the industry...

Do you understand what boil-over means? This was seen as a small puncture to the balloon, that is now bursting. Game reviews being glorified advertisements, nepotism, game "journalists" decrying objectivity as a goal of journalism, taking their lying friends' word about being harassed(horribly ironically leading to a group of depressives being victimised) without actually, you know, being a journalist and checking. Hopefully it all comes down.

It was unclear because they said "making a game for a woman" not "funding a game BY a woman". I don't get why they didn't just fund a female indie project that is already in the works.

 

[Flankerl]

and it involves a lot of killing.

You say it like its a bad thing.

 

[9Westy9]

The amount of misconceptions about Gamergate in this thread are hilarious. Gamergate is much more than "an outpouring of misogynistic whining directed at any reviewer, critic, developer or reporter who dares to suggest that perhaps games could include female characters that, for example, wear clothes, have personalities, and are more complex than a prop or a plot device in a male POV story." Gamergate is predominantly about ethics in gaming journalism.

 

[At The Left Hand ov God]

The amount of stupidity in this thread made me spit up coffee in laughter

 

[HonestJoe]

The amount of misconceptions about Gamergate in this thread are hilarious. Gamergate is much more than "an outpouring of misogynistic whining directed at any reviewer, critic, developer or reporter who dares to suggest that perhaps games could include female characters that, for example, wear clothes, have personalities, and are more complex than a prop or a plot device in a male POV story." Gamergate is predominantly about ethics in gaming journalism.

"GamerGate" is (was?) a tag a whole bunch of different people attached to their personal opinions to try to associate them with a wider group and catch a wave of attention (be it for personal or professional reasons). Some of those individual opinions were legitimate questions about journalistic ethics, some were ignorant misogynistic rants and most were somewhere in between. A growing number were just discussions of what GamerGate actually is?

The problem is that tags tend to be used to indicate agreement or support of a specific concept and so use of the GamerGate tag could be taken as agreement or support of all of those various opinions marked with it. The whole thing really descended in to a hot mess and I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to be associated with the term regardless of how positive they believe it's original intent may have been.

If you want to discuss journalistic ethics, discuss journalistic ethics. If you want to talk about sexism in gaming, talk about sexism in gaming. Frankly, if you want to be misogynistic, go for it and take the flack. If you want to jump of another social media bandwagon with no real understanding of what lies behind it or, significantly, where it could go, by all means blindly attach yourself to a label but don't express surprise if it ends up biting you on the ***.

 

[icehorse]

This is perhaps tangential, perhaps not...

When dealing with trolls a new meme is starting that involves calling them out for bad arguments. We often see posters on RF mention other posts that use fallacies like strawman arguments or false dilemmas.

Trolls are not apt to behave better in general, except, they typically pride themselves on their self-declared superior intelligence. So the idea of the meme is to start calling out fallacy arguments in situations like GamerGate. "Fallacy free Fridays" on twitter is an example of such projects.