Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.

[ratikala]

namaskaram Chakra ji

All Vaishnavas revere the devotees of God. Shri Vaishnavas only worship prapanna devotees (surrendered devotees).

jai jai , ...l think it is much the same one 'worships' only the surrendered souls , ...but pays deepest respects to all devotees , ....even to the falen as the LORD RESIDES WITHIN THE HEART OF ALL BEINGS regardless of caste or of religion , ...

 

[ratikala]

jai jai Aupu ji ,

I like all this (but differ. My way being a little different).

jai jai , ...allways you will be just a little different , ....

To explain, one gets to the 'bhakti' of the deity through the guru, and the guru got there through his guru and so. But the first guru, Adi Guru, must have approached the deity directly. If he could do it, then you can also do it. What is then the need of a via-media?

''one gets to the 'bhakti' of the deity through the guru, and the guru got there through his guru and so on'' .....jai jai , ........''But the first guru, Adi Guru, must have approached the deity directly.'', ......but the Adi Guru is the Supreme himself , ........ ''If he could do it, then you can also do it'' ........but the Supreme is not forgetfull of his own nature , he is not covered in the dust of ignorance, .......''What is then the need of a via-media?''......to remove the dust

 

[निताइ dasa]

I like all this (but differ. My way being a little different).

To explain, one gets to the 'bhakti' of the deity through the guru, and the guru got there through his guru and so on. But the first guru, Adi Guru, must have approached the deity directly. If he could do it, then you can also do it. What is then the need of a interlocutor?

Hahaha very good question. Ratikala ji is right, the Adi Guru, is Sri Balarama-Nitai Himself, who is also Bhagavan. So He doesn't naturally need intermediary because He is the knower of the absolute Truth Himself. . Prema Vivarta Ch 20 says:

"sadhu pabe kashta bara jivera janiya, sadhu guru rupe Krsna aila nadiya"

"The Lord knew how hard it is to find a genuine Sadhu in Kaliyuga, therefore He Himself descended in the form of a Sadhu Guru in Nadiya (Navadwipa)"

How Merciful is the Lord? Jaya Nitai-Gaura

 

[Aupmanyav]

You Vaishnavas! You have answers for all questions!!
May Nitai bless you.

 

[निताइ dasa]

You Vaishnavas! You have answers for all questions!!
May Nitai bless you.

Actually thank you Aupmanyav ji. It is only due to your questions that we are able to discuss about Sri Hari. So we thank you for allowing us to remember and speak about Him.

 

[Aupmanyav]

OK, have some more. If the Adi Guru, Sri Bhagawan, taught the first sampradaya guru, then He could teach other people also directly (only for fun of discussion - Vitandavada, hope I am correct is using the Sanskrit term).

 

[Terese]

Who is Adi Guru Aup?

 

[Aupmanyav]

In case of Vaishnavas, Lord Vishnu or Krishna Himself. Many lineages of Sampradaya acharyas trace from the Lord Himself.

 

[निताइ dasa]

In case of Vaishnavas, Lord Vishnu or Krishna Himself. Many lineages of Sampradaya acharyas trace from the Lord Himself.

Haha Haribol! Then what is the reason for the Adi Guru in the first place, if God can do that job. In every avatar, even Bhagavan Himself accepts a Guru (Shiva as Parashurama, Vashishta as Sri Rama, Sandipanu Muni as Sri Krsna, and Iswara Puri as Sri Chaitanya; to that Sri Guru cannot be bypassed. That is our humble opinion anyway

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hari Bol (Take the name of the Lord, Hari).
Who is the Guru of Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu? Yes, avataras in Vyavaharika accept gurus as they are in a special form, human as well as divine.
Terese, the first name given by Nitai Dasa is that of the guru and the second name is that of the avatara. Just to clear things should a confusion arise.
Vyavaharika, a lower level of reality, day-to-day life, in Sankara's 'advaita' (the one to which I loosely belong).

 

[निताइ dasa]

Hari Bol (Take the name of the Lord, Hari).
Who is the Guru of Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu? Yes, avataras in Vyavaharika accept gurus as they are in a special form, human as well as divine.
Teresa, the first name given by Nitai Dasa is that of the guru and the second name is that of the avatara. Just to clear things should a confusion arise.
Vyavaharik, a lower level of reality, day-to-day life, in Sankara's 'advaita' (the one to which I loosely belong).

Yes that is Sankarachaya's view . We Vaishnavs do not accept it, although we respect him immensely. Without him, Buddhism would have taken over India!

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Terese ji

Who is Adi Guru Aup?

Adi , ....is'first' , ..the originator , ...
(the first primal being) from which all originates , ....even the four Vaisnavas originate from the Adi Guru , ...arguably these appointed heads of each sampradayas become the Adi Guru of each liniage , but the true Adi Guru is the supreme lord himself , ...

Sri Bhagavan (Krsna) said ... I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun god Vivisvan , Vivisvan instructed Manu the father of mankind , and in turn Manu instructed Ikysvaku ....(Maharaj lksvaku , the son of Manu and king ot this earth planet )....... B.G...... ch 4 ..v 1

Arjuna then questions Sri Krsna who stands before him how this is possible , ....

''Arjuna said: The sun-god Vivasvan is senior by birth to You. How am I to understand that in the beginning You instructed this science to him?

The Blessed Lord said: Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!

Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself.'' ..... ch..4 v ..4 - 7

 

[Chakra]

Yes that is Sankarachaya's view . We Vaishnavs do not accept it, although we respect him immensely. Without him, Buddhism would have taken over India!

Actually, it wasn't mainly him. The Mimamsa and the Nyaya scholars played a big role in the decline of Buddhism in India, as well as the devotional sects.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Actually, it wasn't mainly him. The Mimamsa and the Nyaya scholars played a big role in the decline of Buddhism in India, as well as the devotional sects.

Yes whatever you say. You are more knowledgeable than me about this /\.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Nitai! I would like to share an essay written by my Param Param Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada, who founded the 64 Gaudiya Maths.

The Holy Name

“The holy name of Krishna means divine sound. It can be compared to a capsule of medicine. The capsule is not the medicine. Externally one capsule may look like another, but within one capsule maybe medicine and within another may be cyanide. The capsule itself is not the medicine. It is not the sound of Krishna’s name that is Krishna. Krishna is within the sound. The holy name must be be surcharged with the proper spirit not any mundane sentiment.

“The divine sound of the holy name must have it’s origin beyond the area of misconception or maya. Sound must have it’s origin in Goloka Vrindavana. The mere physical sound is not the holy name of Krishna. Repeating only the syllables of the holy name is called mayic sound. It has no spiritual essence. The life of the name is absent in offensive chanting.

“The most important thing in chanting the holy name is the spiritual realization backing the name which is the real name. A tape recorder can pronounce the holy name of Krishna, just like a parrot. But the physical sound is not Krishna. In the background there must be spiritual truth which is conscious. You cannot capture the holy name of Krishna simply by vibrating the syllables of the holy name with your tongue. Ravana wanted to capture Sita and he thought he did. But factually he did not even touch Her divine body. Ravana caught only a mundane replica of Sitadevi, an imitation which was like a statue of Sita.

“You cannot vibrate the holy name simply by moving the lips and tongue. The pure name of Krishna is not lip-deep but heart-deep. Ultimately, it goes beyond the heart and reaches the land of Krishna. When Krishna comes down, the name comes through the heart and moves the lips and tongue. That vibration is the holy name of Krishna. When Krishna in the form of sound descends from the transcendental world into the heart, and from the heart controlling every aspect of the nervous system comes to the lips and tongue dancing there, that is Krishna Nama.

“That sound is not produced from the material plane.The spiritual sound has come down into this plane. He can come down, but we cannot so easily go up there. The holy name is only realized when we approach Him with a very intense serving attitude. At that time Krishna Himself may come down by His grace being attracted by our pure serving nature.

“Then Krishna can influence this element and produce transcendental sound and dance within the mundane plane. That is the holy name of Krishna, Vaikuntha Nama, the real name of Krishna. We cannot produce it with our lips. The sound we create with our physical or mental production is not Krishna. He is indifferent to whatever sound we may produce. yet because He controls everything, He can appear anywhere, in any form, in any place, in any sound.”

Sri Sri Nitai Gaur Harinama ki Jaya!

 

[Chakra]

Yes whatever you say. You are more knowledgeable than me about this /\.

I'm not more knowledgeable than you, just something I read and thought you should know. Many people think that Adi Shankara resurrected Hinduism single-handedly, but he was just part of the whole picture.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Chakra ji

Actually, it wasn't mainly him. The Mimamsa and the Nyaya scholars played a big role in the decline of Buddhism in India, as well as the devotional sects.

one of the biggest factors for the decline of Buddhism in lndia was without doubt the repeated attacks and attempts to destroy Nalanda , other monastic institutions and seats of learning , ...this physical destruction was at the hand of invading muslims , ...one might also forget as many later day buddhists do , that during the times of Buddhism being practiced in lndia , that Buddhism had many devotional sects and that Buddhism did not , as it is portrayed now , reject the Vedas , and that within such institutions as Nalanda there were numerous sects and schools of thought between whoom there was allways ongoing debate and refining of doctrine , however amongst Buddhists and many other schollars ofthe day , this was natural, and all resided peacefully united by Dharma , ....

 

[ratikala]

I'm not more knowledgeable than you, just something I read and thought you should know. Many people think that Adi Shankara resurrected Hinduism single-handedly, but he was just part of the whole picture.

jai jai , ...simmilarly there are many missconceptions about Buddhism in lndia , and many claims to have been the ones to defeat buddhism , many of which paint buddhism to be something that it was not inorder to bolster their own claim of resurecting 'Hinduism' ?......all such false claims should be egnored especialy by Vaisnavas who should know Buddha to be Visnu himself , ....

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Nitai dasa

ji

Nitai! I would like to share an essay written by my Param Param Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada, who founded the 64 Gaudiya Maths.

The Holy Name

The pure name of Krishna is not lip-deep but heart-deep

. Ultimately, it goes beyond the heart and reaches the land of Krishna. When Krishna comes down, the name comes through the heart and moves the lips and tongue. That vibration is the holy name of Krishna. When Krishna in the form of sound descends from the transcendental world into the heart, and from the heart controlling every aspect of the nervous system comes to the lips and tongue dancing there, that is Krishna Nama.

“That sound is not produced from the material plane.The spiritual sound has come down into this plane. He can come down, but we cannot so easily go up there. The holy name is only realized when we approach Him with a very intense serving attitude. At that time Krishna Himself may come down by His grace being attracted by our pure serving nature.

jai jai , ...

“Then Krishna can influence this element and produce transcendental sound and dance within the mundane plane. That is the holy name of Krishna, Vaikuntha Nama, the real name of Krishna. We cannot produce it with our lips. The sound we create with our physical or mental production is not Krishna. He is indifferent to whatever sound we may produce. yet because He controls everything, He can appear anywhere, in any form, in any place, in any sound.”

jai jai , ...to foolishly think that we are the dooer , obscures the true realisation that we are dependant upon Krsna's mercy , and that no realisation is ours , but is the grace of Sri krsna himself , ....
thus all talk of sects defeating sects is pointless as in truth we should give all glory to Krsna who reveals him self as he sees appropriate at that point in time , ....

Sri Sri Nitai Gaur Harinama ki Jaya!

jai jai , ...great are the souls who claim to be no more than the humble servant , ....

 

[Terese]

Ratikala what caused Hinduism to be at such a decline in India?