Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.

[Aupmanyav]

His psychology.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Question: Why did Chaitanya give so much importance to the Hare Krishna mantra?

It is called Mahamantra for a reason. It is simply the Mantra of our Sampradaya. When chanting Hare (Radha), Krsna (i.e Krsna) and Rama (Balarama) all three deities are there in the Mantra. Kali-Santarana Upanisad (one of the the principle 108 Upanishads) says:

narada punah papraccha tan nama kim iti.[4]

Narada Muni again asked,“Which are those specific names of the Lord which are most effective in Kali-yuga?”

sa hovaca hiranyagarbah
hare krishna hare krishna, krishna krishna hare hare.
hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare; [5]

iti shodashakam namnam, kali-kalmasha-nashanam;
natah parataropayah, sarva-vedeshu drishyate. [6]

Lord Brahma replied, “The sixteen words-Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna
Krishna, Hare Hare; Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare-are especially meant for completely destroying all the contamination of Kali. To save oneself from the contamination of Kali-yuga, there is no alternative in all the Vedas except the chanting of this sixteen-word mantra.

iti shodasha kalasya jivasyavarana vinashanam;
tatah prakashate para brahma medhapaye
ravi rashmi mandali veti. [7]

“This maha-mantra consisting of sixteen names of Krishna is the destroyer of the (16-layered) illusory covering of all the living entities. Only when the coverings are destroyed, Lord Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in the heart of the living entities, just like the sun appears with full intensity when the clouds are removed.”

In the words of Lord Chaitanya Himself:

hare krsna hare krsna, ksna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare
prabhu kahe, kahilama ei mahamantra
iha jpaapa giya sabe kariya nirbandha
iha haite sarva-siddhi haibe sabar
sarva ksana bala ithe vidhi nahi ara
ki bhojane ki sayane kiba jagarane
aharnisa cinta krsna balaha vadane
amar prati sneha yadi thake sabakara
krsna vina keha kichu na bolibe ara


"hare krsna hare krsna, ksna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama, rama rama hare hare". The Lord said "I am telling you this Mahamantra, please all you chant and sing this constantly. By the power of this mantra, all perfections will become yours, there is no other rule than to sing this at all moments. Whether you are eating, whether you are sleeping, or whether you are wake, always remember Krsna and chant His name from your mouth. If you have any love for me, then you will not say anything other than "Krsna"

Lord Gaura's standards are very high, even more me ahahha, that is why I need Nitai


This Mahamantra was first manifest by Nityananda Balarama who appeared in the dream of Sri Laksmipati Tirtha and gave him diksha. Lakshmipati Tirtha in turn gave diksha to Srila Madhavendra Puri who gave the mantra to Sri Ishwara Puri. Ishwara Puri was the Guru of Lord Chaitanya.

 

[Aupmanyav]

When chanting Hare (Radha), Krsna (i.e Krsna) and Rama (Balarama) all three deities are there in the Mantra.

Oh, I did not know that the whole lexicon has been changed and every word has been given a new meaning!

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Oh, I did not know that the whole lexicon has been changed and every word has been given a new meaning!

Interesting. I was not aware of that either.

 

[kalyan]

is called Mahamantra for a reason. It is simply the Mantra of our Sampradaya. When chanting Hare (Radha), Krsna (i.e Krsna) and Rama (Balarama) all three deities are there in the Mantra. K

Shouldn't one who claims it 2 be a maha mantra know the correct meaning instead of relying on cooked up translations by isckon? This remembers me of koopasta mandupam analogy, the frog in the world thinks the well is the only real world

Lord Chaitanya

Seriously lord?
If you repeat a lie 1000 times, does not become the truth..I always viewed gaudiyasim as cult and u r not making it any better..

 

[kalyan]

Oh, I did not know that the whole lexicon has been changed and every word has been given a new meaning!

Hare =rAdha is a gem(panini wud have facepalmed seeing this twisting of lingas even let alone the meaning) if u know wat am sayin

 

[Aupmanyav]

Interesting. I was not aware of that either.

What do we know? Nitai (Dasa) knows.

Hare =rAdha is a gem(panini wud have facepalmed seeing this twisting of lingas even let alone the meaning) if u know wat am sayin

Panini would have committed suicide by drowning himself in River Indus.

Chhota Lahore near Attock, Swabi, Pakistan (one of the places claimed as Panini's village):

 

[निताइ dasa]

There are many meanings of the Mahamantra. I am simply giving the conception in our Gaudiya Dhara. Other Vaishnav Sampradayas take Hare to mean Lord Hari, Krsna to mean Krsna, and Ram to mean either Lord Ramachandra, or Ramanam Krsna.

Hare comes from Hara (one who steals the mind of Krsna) that is Radharani

 

[निताइ dasa]

Seriously lord?

sri chaitanyam prabhum vande
baloapi yad anugrahat
taren nana mata graha
vyaptam siddhanta sagaram

"I bow to the Lord, Sri Chaitanya, by whose mercy even a child can cross over the crocodile infested ocean of contradictory philosophy"

 

[kalyan]

sri kalyaNam prabhum vande
baloapi yad anugrahat
taren nana mata graha
vyaptam siddhanta sagaram

"I bow to the Lord, Sri Chaitanya, by whose mercy even a child can cross over the crocodile infested ocean of contradictory philosophy"

I can say the same about me

"I bow to the Lord Kalyan, by whose mercy even a child can cross over the crocodile infested ocean of contradictory philosophy"

 

[निताइ dasa]

I can say the same about me

"I bow to the Lord Kalyan, by whose mercy even a child can cross over the crocodile infested ocean of contradictory philosophy"

if you want, nothing is stopping you. But you have to prove it.

Lord Chaitanya has already proved it for me, and hundreds of his contemporaries and devotees (i can give proof via their writings). My heart is sold to Lord Gaur Nitai. Even if I leave Lord Krsna, I will never leave my Nitai Gaur. Whoever has love for Gauranga I am their servant, and those who are envious of Him, I do not even want to see the face of that person. In my personal spiritual practice it was only Lords Nitai Gaura who helped me, who picked me up and embraced me. When I was worshipping Krsna alone, I was lost, when I found Lord Gaura Nitai, Krsna was always near.

"Je deshe amara nitai nai sei deshe na jabo, nitai vimukhera jane mukha na dekhibo"

In that country where my Nitai is not there, I will never go. I will not even look at the face of those who are averse and envious of Nitai.

Grhe thake vane thake ha gauranga bole dake
Narottuma Mage tara sanga

"Whether you live in a forest or in a house, if you shout "O Gauranga!" with love, narottama das wants their association"

 

[निताइ dasa]

On a side note; there are a lot of so called "Vaishnavs" who go around externally shouting "Hari Hari or Krsna Krsna" yet they have no respect for Hari's devotees. Due to this , the creeper of Hari Bhakti is completely uprooted by the mad elephant of Vaishnav Aparadha. Those who directly try and attain Hari will never get Him, but those who worship His devotees will capture His heart. Everyday I am realizing the truth in the Bhajan of my Gurudeva.

I want to write something on this, particularly discussing how Lord Chaitanya punished both Chapala Gopala and Devananda Pandit for this heinous act. Drawing this further, respect is one of the most important qualities a Vaishnav should have. As we see in the story of Vallabhacharya and Rupa Goswami, even if a Vaishnav hears something wrong they will not externally correct. That behavior is only typical of Madhyama Adhikaris, not Uttama Adhikaras. What is the point of studying this and that element of philosophy or religion when these good qualities do not arise in the heart? This was the offense for which Romaharhana Suta was punished by Bhagavan Baladeva.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But you have to prove it.

If a seeker comes, I can prove it. I won't go disciple-hunting.

.. how Lord Chaitanya punished both Chapala Gopala and Devananda Pandit for this heinous act. .. This was the offense for which Romaharhana Suta was punished by Bhagavan Baladeva.

What happened to Lord's mercy and love? .. We have discussed this before. Romaharshana was only a suta and did not stand up when Lord Balarama entered. After all, Lord Balarama was an incarnation of Shesha.

 

[निताइ dasa]

What happened to Lord's mercy and love?

It shows His extreme love and protectiveness over His devotees. If someone is so dear to me, more than my life, and someone else hurts them, I would not tolerate it. Similarly, Lord Hari does not tolerate. One of the reasons the Lord descends is to protect the sadhus, "paritranaya sadhunam". When Sita Maa was stolen by Raavan, did Lord Rama show mercy and love towards him? Of course in those examples I gave, the Lord does deliver them in the end, but only after they were forgiven by the devotees they committed the offence against. Actually it is only Doyal Nitai who forgives Vaishnav Aparadha and loves us like no-one else, that is the conclusion of Vrndavana das Thakur.

mad-bhakta-pujyabhyadhika
sarva-bhutesu man-matih

The worship of my devotees is the real worship of me. In fact it is higher than worshiping My very self. (Bhagavatam. 11.19.21)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ravana was a totally different case. He was Jaya. It was fulfillment of a curse and completion of a promise that in each life, he will be killed by Lord Himself.

 

[निताइ dasa]

If a seeker comes, I can prove it. I won't go disciple-hunting.What happened to Lord's mercy and love? .. We have discussed this before. Romaharshana was only a suta and did not stand up when Lord Balarama entered. After all, Lord Balarama was an incarnation of Shesha.

Yup and not only that. His mistake, was also hypocrisy.Lord Balaram's exact words are here:

ṛṣer bhagavato bhūtvā
 śiṣyo ’dhītya bahūni ca
setihāsa-purāṇāni
 dharma-śāstrāṇi sarvaśaḥ
adāntasyāvinītasya
 vṛthā paṇḍita-māninaḥ
na guṇāya bhavanti sma
 naṭasyevājitātmanaḥ

"Although he is a disciple of the divine sage Vyāsa and has thoroughly learned many scriptures from him, including the lawbooks of religious duties and the epic histories and Purāṇas, all this study has not produced good qualities in him. Rather, his study of the scriptures is like an actor’s studying his part, for he is not self-controlled or humble and vainly presumes himself a scholarly authority, though he has failed to conquer his own mind"

My point is, what is the use of studying scripture, when there is no realization, when there is no humility and respect in the hard. I consider such study useless.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Ravana was a totally different case. He was Jaya. It was fulfillment of a curse and completion of a promise that in each life, he will be killed by Lord Himself.

So many instances are there. Hiranyakashipu (who offended Prahlad). Kamsa (who offended Vasudeva and Devaki). We have Taraka and other demons like Khar and Dushana (who had offended the Brahmins). Aghasura offended the cowherd boys. Even Lord Indra was not safe from Vaishnav Aparadha (when he tried to flood Vraja). The Gopis sing this so beautiful in Gopi Geet:

viṣa-jalāpyayād vyāla-rākṣasād
 varṣa-mārutād vaidyutānalāt
vṛṣa-mayātmajād viśvato bhayād
 ṛṣabha te vayaṁ rakṣitā muhuḥ

O greatest of personalities, You have repeatedly saved us from all kinds of danger — from poisoned water, from the terrible man-eater Agha, from the great rains, from the wind demon, from the fiery thunderbolt of Indra, from the bull demon and from the son of Maya Dānava.

 

[Terese]

So many instances are there. Hiranyakashipu (who offended Prahlad). Kamsa (who offended Vasudeva and Devaki). We have Taraka and other demons like Khar and Dushana (who had offended the Brahmins). Aghasura offended the cowherd boys. Even Lord Indra was not safe from Vaishnav Aparadha (when he tried to flood Vraja). The Gopis sing this so beautiful in Gopi Geet:

viṣa-jalāpyayād vyāla-rākṣasād
 varṣa-mārutād vaidyutānalāt
vṛṣa-mayātmajād viśvato bhayād
 ṛṣabha te vayaṁ rakṣitā muhuḥ

O greatest of personalities, You have repeatedly saved us from all kinds of danger — from poisoned water, from the terrible man-eater Agha, from the great rains, from the wind demon, from the fiery thunderbolt of Indra, from the bull demon and from the son of Maya Dānava.

Hiranyakashipu was an incarnation of Jaya, but i get what you mean from the other examples you provided.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is only 'maya', 'leela', nobody killed another. Nobody can kill another when all is Brahman..

 

[निताइ dasa]

There is actually a very nice verse in Gita:

It is only 'maya', 'leela', nobody killed another. Nobody can kill another when all is Brahman..

It is impossible to kill the immortal soul,
naina.n Chindanti shastraaNi (It, atma cannot be cut by weapons) naina.n dahati paavakaH (nor can fire burn it) na chaina.n kledayantyaapo (nor water soak it) na shoshhayati maarutaH (nor can wind dry it).

There is a nice verse in Gita that explains this difference in the mood the Lord has towards His devotees and non-devotees. (Gita 9.29)

samo ’haḿ sarva-bhūteṣu
na me dveṣyo ’sti na priyaḥ
ye bhajanti tu māḿ bhaktyā
mayi te teṣu cāpy aham

"I am equal to all. I envy no one, nor do I favor anyone. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him."

The first two lines, describe the non-devotees, those who don't worship the Lord (and are not surrendered unto Him () are treated fairly and impartially due to the law of Karma (i.e we get what we deserve). However the last two lines gives the exception to the rules. ya bhajanti tu mam bhaktya (those what Worship me as My devotee), may te tesu capy aham (I also do that to them, i.e I worship them and protect them always).