• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Gaudiya Vaishnavism queries and discussion thread.

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Lakshmi's attraction to Sri Krsna is confirmed in Bhagavatam and Chaitanya Charitramrta (by the words of Lord Mahaprabhu Himself).

In Bhagavatam it is found in a lots of places. I will quote from the two I know. The first is the direct words of Radharani spoken ti Uddhava in the 47th Chapter of the 10th Canto:

ivi bhuvi ca rasāyāṁ kāḥ striyas tad-durāpāḥ
 kapaṭa-rucira-hāsa-bhrū-vijṛmbhasya yāḥ syuḥ
caraṇa-raja upāste yasya bhūtir vayaṁ kā
 api ca kṛpaṇa-pakṣe hy uttamaḥ-śloka-śabdaḥ


"In heaven, on earth or in the subterranean sphere, what women are unavailable to Him (Krsna)? He simply arches His eyebrows and smiles with deceptive charm, and they all become His. Bhudevi (i.e Lakshmi the consort of Narayana) herself worships the dust of His feet, so what is our position in comparison? But at least those who are wretched can chant His name, Uttamaḥśloka."

The next reference is found in the same canto:

nayam sriyo 'nga u nitanta-rateh prasadah
svar-yoshi-tam nalina-gandha-rucam kuto 'nyah
rasotsave 'sya bhuja-danda-grihita-kantha-
labdhasisham ya udagad vraja-vallabhinam


When Lord Sri Krishna was dancing with the gopis in the rasa-lila, the gopis were embraced by the arms of the Lord. This transcendental favor was never bestowed upon the Lakshmi-devi (sriyo) or other consorts in the spiritual world. Indeed, never was such a thing even imagined by the most beautiful girls in the heavenly planets, whose bodily luster and aroma resemble the lotus flower. And what to speak of worldly women who are very beautiful according to material estimation?


There is not exact verse in Chaitanya Charitamrta but rather a dialogue that occurs between Lord Chaitanya and Venkata Bhatta. Please read it here (start from verse 110 onwards), it tells the Gaudiya position on this topic far better than I can.


As for the 64 qualities of Sri Krsna they are listed in Bhaktirasamrta Sindhu and also Chaitanya Charitamrta. The concept of Rasa Vicara is not found in other Sampradayas except for Gaudiyas (and Vallabhas).


sarvādbhuta-camatkāra-
līlā-kallola-vāridhiḥ
atulya-madhura-prema-
maṇḍita-priya-maṇḍalaḥ
tri-jagan-mānasākarṣi-
muralī-kala-kūjitaḥ
asamānordhva-rūpa-śrī-
vismāpita-carācaraḥ

“ Apart from these sixty transcendental qualities, Kṛṣṇa has an additional four transcendental qualities, which are not manifested even in the personality of Nārāyaṇa. These are: (1) Kṛṣṇa is like an ocean filled with waves of pastimes that evoke wonder within everyone in the three worlds. (2) In His activities of conjugal love, He is always surrounded by His dear devotees who possess unequaled love for Him. (3) He attracts the minds of all three worlds with the melodious vibration of His flute. (4) His personal beauty and opulence are beyond compare. No one is equal to Him, and no one is greater than Him. Thus the Personality of Godhead astonishes all living entities, both moving and nonmoving, within the three worlds. He is so beautiful that He is called Kṛṣṇa." (Chaitanya Charitamrta)


I again want to assert again and again (and so does Lord Mahaprabhu in the dialogue) that there is no aboslute difference between Lord Krsna and Sri Narayana. Only in the discussion of the mellows of rasa do we find some difference. I think the following verse nicely summarizes it:

siddhāntatas tv abhede ’pi
śrīśa-kṛṣṇa-svarūpayoḥ
rasenotkṛṣyate kṛṣṇa-
rūpam eṣā rasa-sthitiḥ


"
 ‘According to transcendental realization, there is no difference between the forms of Nārāyaṇa and Kṛṣṇa. Yet in Kṛṣṇa there is a special transcendental attraction due to the conjugal mellow, and consequently He surpasses Nārāyaṇa. This is the conclusion of transcendental mellows.’





There is a reason we are called Gaudiyas ;). Circular reasoning is performed by all schools. Why else would the Vedas have any authority unless they say so within them?
Thank you for your words :) But for the sake of asserting my sampradaya, Lakshmi not obtaining the fruit of Sri Krishna's feet does not mean Krishna is higher than Narayana. Narayana also has a mischievous personality, offering bliss to the jivas of our world in the form of Sri Krishna, as the gopis were before meeting Krishna were in unfortunate positions compared to Lakshmi. Lord Vishnu has performed much transcendental love to his devotees, such as meeting our alwars in person, though to us Sri Krishna creating love is Narayana creating love. Also, such as And as for those 64 qualities, Sri Vaishnavas will definitely find that Vishnu has those extra four qualities. Of course, you are a Gaudiya. So you will say these things. Just making a statement that those points you made can be refuted.
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Thank you for your words :) But for the sake of asserting my sampradaya, Lakshmi not obtaining the fruit of Sri Krishna's feet does not mean Krishna is higher than Narayana. Narayana also has a mischievous personality, offering bliss to the jivas of our world in the form of Sri Krishna, as the gopis were before meeting Krishna were in unfortunate positions compared to Lakshmi. Lord Vishnu has performed much transcendental love to his devotees, such as meeting our alwars in person, though to us Sri Krishna creating love is Narayana creating love. Also, such as And as for those 64 qualities, Sri Vaishnavas will definitely find that Vishnu has those extra four qualities. Of course, you are a Gaudiya. So you will say these things. Just making a statement that those points you made can be refuted.

You are right :), my points can easily be refuted (for example you don't have to accept the 64 qualities of Krsna at all). But it is nice to share anyway, so you can see where we are coming from. My heart is unfortunately sold to Sri Krsna and Lord Nityananda. However! Our Lord is One, who is Hari! He is truly Bhakta Vatsala (Like the father to His devotees). The Bhagavatam is filled to the brim with the nectar of Lord Narayana's pastimes. How the Lord delivered, Dhruv, how He rescued Gajendra, how He protected Drayopati, how He lifted Govardhan to protect His devotees. Our Lord is so sweet. Why else does He come to this world unless to shower love upon His devotees. Even when Putana tried to kill Him, by giving Him poisonous milk, still the Lord accepted her motherly mood and gave her a place in Goloka as a nurse! Sharing this shloka because I love it so much (its from Rupa Goswami's Padavali):

vyadhasyacaranam dhruvasya ca vayo vidya gajendrasya ka
kubjayah kim u nama rupam adhikam kim tat sudamno dhanam
vamsah ko vidurasya yadava-pater ugrasya kim paurusham
bhaktya tushyati kevalam na ca gunair bhakti-priyo madhavah


"Where were the hunter Dharma’s piety, Dhruva’s maturity, and Gajendra’s knowledge? Where was Kubja’s beauty? Where was Sudama’s wealth? Where was Vidura’s noble birth? Where was Ugrasena’s chivalrous strength? Lord Madhava is pleased only by devotional service and not by material qualifications"

krishna_india_authentic_by_lalitkr007.jpg
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Namaskaram Nitai Dasa ji , ...Terese ji , ...

please without causing offence may l say why I have not been posting recently , .....

Thank you for your words :) But for the sake of asserting my sampradaya, Lakshmi not obtaining the fruit of Sri Krishna's feet does not mean Krishna is higher than Narayana. Narayana also has a mischievous personality, offering bliss to the jivas of our world in the form of Sri Krishna, as the gopis were before meeting Krishna were in unfortunate positions compared to Lakshmi. Lord Vishnu has performed much transcendental love to his devotees, such as meeting our alwars in person, though to us Sri Krishna creating love is Narayana creating love. Also, such as And as for those 64 qualities, Sri Vaishnavas will definitely find that Vishnu has those extra four qualities. Of course, you are a Gaudiya. So you will say these things.Just making a statement that those points you made can be refuted.

Terese Ji ...and Nitai Dasa ji , ....although this conversation is way more polite and considerate of the fellings of eachothers sampradayas it still breaks my heart , .....Why , Why , is there this need to assert ones sampradaya ???
Why ? ...I do not understand , .....

in answer to an older post , ..yes , there are limetless universes , ...and limetless faces to the Supreme , ..un limeted names and Pastimes , ....this being so Why , Why , the need to compare Laxmi devi with Sri Radhika as both are reflections of the limetless facets of the Supreme himself , ....

it seems to be forgotten that Sri Krsna is an incarnation of the supreme Narayan is not , Radha is an incarnation of Laxmi devi , Laxmi devi accompanies the supreme where ever he goes when ever he incarnates she resides with him allways in the spiritual realm , ....yet the relationship between Narayan and Laxmi devi is completely different to that of Krsna and Radha , ....yet none should think to say that one is higher or lower we should just think ourselves blessed to be drawn to their worship , ...

Nor should we count qualities as they are limitless , ....these are just devotions of different sects , ...''let us identify your qualities so that we may glorify you'' , ....(and as Glorification is endless thus sampradayas evolve in their different ways of Glorifying the Lord) ....

this is just another lila the lila of the devoted , ..how many ways can he describe his beloved , ....more than 64 , ..more than 108 , ..more than 108000 , ..the number is infinate, ......did you know that we the atman is said to go through 108 stages in the life process , ..and that the of diameter of the Sun is 108 times the diameter of the Earth , ... the sun as we know it is minute by comparison to the universe , and this universe minute by comparison to infinity in which it is but a fleeting particle , ...yet the Supreme is eternal , universes are constantly forming and disolving being exuded from the pores of the skin of the great MahaVisnu , ....our universe is but a mere bubble , ..and we who are born of that universe are but a minute portion of the minute portion , .......

and we think that we Know the Supreme ??? ...we think that we can argue over whos Sampradaya is superior , ..or who can ''refute'' anothers understanding , ....

@Aupmanyav ji I am sure will tell you beter than I can about the vedic divisions of time and the knowledge of infinity which predates modern Science , ....it is facinating , ....108 as a Harshad number it is Bliss , ...it is also the number underlaying creation , the nature of the body , ...the nature of the universe , ..the nature of the Supreme , ....

how can we know such things ? ...this is why we chant on 108 beads , ...multiplied by repetitions , ....why yogis salute the sun 108 times , ..and so it goes on multiplying and multiplying untill finaly we may know the Supreme , ....

Knowledge of the supreme is not found in books or by politely arguing or refuting , it is found by Chanting and meditating upon the limitless forms and lila of the supreme , .....


Radharani's name is not mentioned in directly Bhagavatam ,

Jai Jai , ..and why should it be mentioned ???......this is confidential lila , ....is everything about a great king written down for prosperity is his every relationship made public , ...no , ..why , ..respect for his privacy , ..., Sri Krsnas relationship with Sri Radhika is not for public consumption , ....it is not like the Gita , it is not a discourse on Dharma , ....it is Personal lila , ....


........It doesn't really matter anyway. I was giving the Gaudiya position. The verse was spoken by a very important Gopi, even if some people don't think it was Srimati Radhika.

this is why it should remain confidential , ..look now what has happened in this Kaliyuga the ignorant insugnificant unenlightened embodied and deluded souls that populate this earth have elevated them selves to an imaginary position of self importance and authority that vaingloriously thinks that it can understand the Lords infinite Nature ? and pass judgement on his Lila ? ....it should not be discussed , ...it should not be written , ....Haa Haa , yes prehaps eluded to in some esoteric manner so as only the most humble and appreciative devotee may reflect upon the higher meaning and cherish that thought in his heart , ......but then he is wise enough to know that he should not disclose this any other but the most sincere of devotees , ....why because the majority are not in a position to understand it , it will become debased , .....

it is now my opinion that it canot and should not be discussed , especialy not openly , ....
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Today is Gaura Purnima (the full moon of Lord Gaura) which is the appearance day of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. On the day of the Lord's appearance, there was a lunar eclipse, and on this pretense, everyone in Nadiya (Navadwipa) chanted the Holy Name of Krsna. Amidst the chanting of Harinama, the Lord appeared, just like the sun rises in the darkness. The following Padavali was written by Narottama das Thakur for His glorifcation. The first syllable of each line follows sequence of consonants in the Bengali alphabet (k, kh, g, gh, n...etc):

kali-yuge shri krishna chaitanya abatara
khelibara prabandhe kaila khola karatala


In the Kali-yuga Shri Krishna Chaitanya descended to this world. He enjoyed kirtana pastimes with khola and karatala.

gadagadi yana prabhu nija sankirtane
ghare ghare hari-nama dena sarba-jane


Chanting His own holy names, He rolled on the ground in ecstasy. Going from house to house, He gave to everyone the gift of Lord Hari's holy name.

uccaih-sware kande prabhu jibera lagiya
cetana karana jibe krishna-nama diya


For the benefit of the jivas, the Lord loudly wept in the ecstasy of spiritual love. Giving them the gift of Lord Krishna's holy names, He revived the jivas.

chala chala kare ankhi nayanera jale
jagata pabitra kaila gaura-kalebare


Tears of ecstatic spiritual love flowed from His eyes. His fair spiritual form purified all the worlds.

jhala jhala mukha yena purna shashadhara
emata ta dekhi na-i dayara sagara


His glorious face shone like the full moon. No one had ever seen an ocean of mercy like Him

talamala kare anga bhabete bibhola
thamake thamake cale bale haribola


Overcome with ecstatic spiritual love, His body trembled. Dancing and dancing as He went, He chanted, “Haribol!"

dorahi kaupina kshina katira upare
dhaliya dhaliya pade gadadhera krode


.A kaupina rested on His slender waist. Staggering and staggering as He walked, He fell at Gadadhara's side.

tana parasanga gora na shune shrabane
tana mana gana rase maja-iya mana


Lord Gauranga's ears never listened to anything but descriptions of Lord Krishna. His heart was plunged in the nectar of songs glorifying Lord Krishna.

thira nahi haya prabhura nayanera jala
dina-hina janere dhariya deya kola


He could not be peaceful. Tears of ecstatic spiritual love flowed from Lord Gauranga's eyes. The Lord hugged the poor fallen souls.

dheyamiya puraba piriti parasanga
na jani kahara bhabe ha-iya tri-bhanga


He meditated on the loving pastimes He previously enjoyed with His associates, pastimes He enjoyed as Lord Krishna. Who was the person with a threefold-bending form standing before Him? He did not know.

prema-rase bhasa-iya akhila samsara
phutila shri-brindabana suradhuni dhara


He made the whole world float in the nectar of ecstatic spiritual love. On the Ganga's banks He manifested the beautiful spiritual world of Vrindavana.

brahma maheshwara yare kare anweshana
bhabiya na pana yamre sahasra-locana


Brahma, Shiva, and all the demigods search for Him. Thousand-eyed Indra meditates on Him but cannot find Him.

matta matanga gati madhura mridu hasa
yashomati mata yamra bhubane prakasha


He walked like a graceful intoxicated elephant. His gentle smile was sweet. In His home Mother Yashoda was present.

ratipati jini rupa ati manohara
lila labanya yara ati anupama


His charming form defeated Kamadeva. His handsomeness and playfulness were without peer.

basudeba-suta se-i shri-nanda-nandana
shacira nandana ebe bale sarba-jana


Everyone says that Lord Krishna, who was the son of Vasudeva and the son of Nanda, has now become Shaci's son

catur-bhuja rupa haila aty-ashcarya-maya
sabadhana prana-natha gora rasamaya


He manifested a wonderful six-armed form. Lord Gaura is sweet like nectar. He is the master of my life.

hari hari bala bha-i kara maha-yajna
k****i-tale janmi keha na haiya abijna


O my brothers, please chant, "Hari! Hari!" Please perform a great yajna of chanting Lord Hari's holy names. Now that everyone chants the holy names, no one remains foolish and bewildered on the surface of the earth.

e cautrisha padabali ye kare kirtana
dasa narottama mage tahare carana


Narottama dasa prays at the feet of anyone who chants these 34 lines.

Reasons for Lord Chaitanya's appearance:

The following 3 verses very nicely summarize Gaura Tattva (the subject matter which is Lord Gaura) and for what reason Lord Gauranga has descended:

anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau
samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam
hariḥ puraṭa-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ
sadā hṛdaya-kandare sphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandanaḥ


"May the Supreme Lord who is known as the son of Śrīmatī Śacī-devī be transcendentally situated in the innermost chambers of your heart. Resplendent with the radiance of molten gold, He has appeared in the Age of Kali by His causeless mercy to bestow what no incarnation has ever offered before: the most sublime and radiant mellow of devotional service, the mellow of conjugal love."

rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī śaktir asmād
ekātmānāv api bhuvi purā deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau
caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ
rādhā-bhāva-dyuti-suvalitaṁ naumi kṛṣṇa-svarūpam


"The loving affairs of Śrī Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are transcendental manifestations of the Lord’s internal pleasure-giving potency. Although Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are one in Their identity, previously They separated Themselves. Now these two transcendental identities have again united, in the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. I bow down to Him, who has manifested Himself with the sentiment and complexion of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī although He is Kṛṣṇa Himself."

śrī-rādhāyāḥ praṇaya-mahimā kīdṛśo vānayaivā-
svādyo yenādbhuta-madhurimā kīdṛśo vā madīyaḥ
saukhyaṁ cāsyā mad-anubhavataḥ kīdṛśaṁ veti lobhāt
tad-bhāvāḍhyaḥ samajani śacī-garbha-sindhau harīnduḥ


"Desiring to understand the glory of Rādhārāṇī’s love, the wonderful qualities in Him that She alone relishes through Her love, and the happiness She feels when She realizes the sweetness of His love, the Supreme Lord Hari, richly endowed with Her emotions, appeared from the womb of Śrīmatī Śacī-devī, as the moon appeared from the ocean."

The reason why Lord Gauranga is golden, is because He is Krsna, but covered in Radharani's mood (of a devotee) which is manifest by the color is His skin. radha bhava dyuti suvilitam naumi krsna swarupam.

May Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu bless everyone on this forum, on this Holy Day and may your spiritual paths take you to your ultimate destination.

gaura-nitai.jpg

I love that song.
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
, ..look now what has happened in this Kaliyuga the ignorant insugnificant unenlightened embodied and deluded souls that populate this earth have elevated them selves to an imaginary position of self importance and authority that vaingloriously thinks that it can understand the Lords infinite Nature ? and pass judgement on his Lila ? ....it should not be discussed , ...it should not be written

You are right mataji. I am sorry, these are very confidential pastimes. It is really sad to see the souls misunderstand the Lord's Lila though. And Radharani is so so merciful, I can't help speaking about her :). By glorifying Her, Krsna more pleased then even His own glorification. A devotee of Krsna can go through alot of pain (actually Lord Narayan says in Bhagavatam that whomever He favors He will take all the wealth away from that person just so they then can take the association of the devotees). But Radharani's devotees never go through any pain. I remember my Gurudev used to say, that "when I served Krsna, I was always begging here and there for fund in order to preach etc, but as soon as Radharani called me to Radhakund, everything is happening so easily. There is no shortage of money or anything". And who can doubt, Radharani is Laksmi Herself! That has been always the mood of the Gaudiyas, we want to give everything at the feet of Radharani. There is actually a pastime about this. When the devotees do Govardhana parikrama they usually chant the following line:

Radhe radhe syama se milaade

"Radhe, Radhe, please take me to Syama"

But for us Gaudiyas its opposite:

"Syama syama radhe se milaade"

"Syama Syama, please take me to Radharani!"


So my apologise if I have offended. Everything I am doing is out of my mood towards Srimati Radhika. Tereseji asked a nice question, and I tried to give a nice reply.

I love that song.

Yeah its a pretty rad song! I remember really like listening to it when I was younger!
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Namaskaram Nitai Dasa ji , ....

You are right mataji. I am sorry, these are very confidential pastimes. It is really sad to see the souls misunderstand the Lord's Lila though. And Radharani is so so merciful, I can't help speaking about her :).

it is simply that some are born with a natural inclination to Bhakti then even within those Krsna attracts variously each to their own nature , ....

but certainly i understand it is hard not to Glorify her , ..amongst defotees


By glorifying Her, Krsna more pleased then even His own glorification. A devotee of Krsna can go through alot of pain (actually Lord Narayan says in Bhagavatam that whomever He favors He will take all the wealth away from that person just so they then can take the association of the devotees). But Radharani's devotees never go through any pain. I remember my Gurudev used to say, that "when I served Krsna, I was always begging here and there for fund in order to preach etc, but as soon as Radharani called me to Radhakund, everything is happening so easily. There is no shortage of money or anything".

All glories to your Guru dev , ....he who sees only the divine couple is indifferent to pain , this in itself brings great fortune through a sincere wish for seva anything becomes possible , ...

And who can doubt, Radharani is Laksmi Herself!

Jai Jai

[qoute]That has been always the mood of the Gaudiyas, we want to give everything at the feet of Radharani. There is actually a pastime about this. When the devotees do Govardhana parikrama they usually chant the following line:

Radhe radhe syama se milaade

"Radhe, Radhe, please take me to Syama"

But for us Gaudiyas its opposite:

"Syama syama radhe se milaade"

"Syama Syama, please take me to Radharani!"[/quote]


Jai Jai , ...but you know this is just a Gaudiya 'ism there is allways a playfull rivalry between Krsna Bhaktas and Radhranis Sakhis as to who should be the highst goal or refuge , ..when in truth both are one , ...


radha_raman_rasa.jpg


So my apologise if I have offended. Everything I am doing is out of my mood towards Srimati Radhika. Tereseji asked a nice question, and I tried to give a nice reply.

No , no , ...Nitai Dasa canot offend me , nor Terese ji whos questions are allways from a genuinely enquiring mind , ..

it is just that we must be carefull not to try measure the unmesurable , ....or pick up the attitude of refuting other peoples devotinal moods , ...


Yeah its a pretty rad song! I remember really like listening to it when I was younger!

what is ''rad' ..?
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Namaskaram Nitai Dasa ji , ....



it is simply that some are born with a natural inclination to Bhakti then even within those Krsna attracts variously each to their own nature , ....

but certainly i understand it is hard not to Glorify her , ..amongst defotees




All glories to your Guru dev , ....he who sees only the divine couple is indifferent to pain , this in itself brings great fortune through a sincere wish for seva anything becomes possible , ...



Jai Jai

That has been always the mood of the Gaudiyas, we want to give everything at the feet of Radharani. There is actually a pastime about this. When the devotees do Govardhana parikrama they usually chant the following line:

Radhe radhe syama se milaade

"Radhe, Radhe, please take me to Syama"

But for us Gaudiyas its opposite:

"Syama syama radhe se milaade"

"Syama Syama, please take me to Radharani!"

Jai Jai , ...but you know this is just a Gaudiya 'ism there is allways a playfull rivalry between Krsna Bhaktas and Radhranis Sakhis as to who should be the highst goal or refuge , ..when in truth both are one , ...


radha_raman_rasa.jpg




No , no , ...Nitai Dasa canot offend me , nor Terese ji whos questions are allways from a genuinely enquiring mind , ..

it is just that we must be carefull not to try measure the unmesurable , ....or pick up the attitude of refuting other peoples devotinal moods , ...




what is ''rad' ..?[/QUOTE]
I missed you @ratikala ! Yes, we cannot measure the immeasurable! But to clarify, there was no 'debate'. I felt a need to glorify Lord Narayana after reading Nitai-Dasa's post. The Lord has many attractive forms, we are all different in our tastes :)
Rad means 'spectacular'.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Terese, Ratiben also is immeasurable. As you said, it is playful sparring with Nitai ji (Dasa, silent). If there was no Srimati Radharani (Maya), with whom Lord Krishna (Brahman) could have sported? He would have been very sad to miss all his frolics. No rāsa, no rasa. I thank the Gaudiya Sampradaya for that.

Radha.jpg


"Radha's longing" with an Urdu verse (written in Hindi):

"Badi barkat hai tere ishk mein, jabse huā hai
koi dūsrā dard nahin hotā."

Your love so self-multiplying that, since it has happened
I have felt no other pain.

Radhe-Krishna.
 
Last edited:

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant

Jaya Jaya Sri Radha Raman ki Jaya!

ut to clarify, there was no 'debate'. I felt a need to glorify Lord Narayana after reading Nitai-Dasa's post. The Lord has many attractive forms, we are all different in our tastes :)

Yeah I agree. There was no debate (I think?). We can always try and understand where another Sampradaya is coming from without giving up our own position. I never was never in the mood of refuting anyone's views. That is not in my nature. It reminds me of the conversations between Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His devotees. Always the Lord would (in jest) try and say to His devotees like Murari Gupta that "My Krsna is the abode of sweetness, worship Him" but Murari would reply:

ragunathera paya muni veciyachon matha
kadhite na pari matha, mane pai vyatha


"I have sold my head unto the lotus feet of Ragunatha [Lord Ramachandra]. I cannot withdraw my head, for that would give me too much pain.”

And Lord Chaitanya would reply:

"sei murari-gupta ei–mora prana sama
inhara dainya suni’ mora phataye jivana "


"O Murari Gupta you are my life. Hearing your intense humility, my heart breaks"

"sei bhakta dhanya, ye nā chāḍe prabhura caraṇa
sei prabhu dhanya, ye nā chāḍe nija-jana"


"Glorious is that devotee who does not give up the shelter of his Lord, and glorious is that Lord who does not abandon His servant."

Below are the deities of Murari Gupta, which are still being worshiped today in Chaitanya Matha:

Day105TheDeitiesatMurariGuptastemple.jpg
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Question: What did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu teach?

I wrote the answer to you in an Inbox Tereseji when you asked me the exact same question before. I will post that answer here:


"Lord Chaitanya taught quite a lot, and these teachings were heard and written down by His associates. His direct work was Sikshastakam (the 8 verses) which summarized Gaudiya philosophy. He also gave direct instructions to many of His disciples. The most important instructions were to Rupa Goswami and Sanatana Goswami and the dialogue between them can be found here (Sanatan Goswami's instructions, starts from verse 99) and (Rupa Goswami's instructions starts from verse 136). These instructions are also found in Chaitanya Bhagavata quite beautifully.

Later Jiva Goswami (who was also a disciple of Rupa and Sanatana) also systematized the philosophy into 6 books (called Sandarbhas) and provided Vedic backing for it (in His six Sandarbhas). Lord Chaitanya also took some crucial elements from the teachings of the 4 Vaishnav Sampradaya (and their acharyas) and incorporated them into His to form the Gaudiya Sampradaya. That is why we are indebted to the other Vaishnav Sampradayas and their acharyas and we always worship the dust of their Lotus Feet.

From Ramanujacharya He took:

1) concept of unalloyed devotion free from karma and jnana (ananya-bhakti)

2) service to the devotees bhakta-jana-seva

From Madhavacharya He took"

1) complete defeat of impersonal monism philosophy (kevale-advaita-nirasana)

2) worship of the deity of Krsna, understanding it to be eternal (krsna-murti-sevana)

3) He also borrowed from Madhavacharya the dasa-mula (10 philosophical teachings) and that is why the Lord took Diksha in Madhava's sampradaya.

From Visnuswami (Rudra Samparadaya)

1) the sentiment of total dependence on Krsna (tadiya-sarvasva-bhava)

2) the path of spontaneous devotional service (raga-marga)

and from Nimbarkacharya:

1) the necessity of taking exclusive shelter of Radhika (ekanta - radhikasraya)

2) the exalted mood of the gopis' love for Sri Krishna (gopi-bhava)

Thus Gaudiya philosophy thus can be summerized as follows:

aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanayas tad-dhama vrndavanam
ramya kacid upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena va kalpita
srimad bhagavatam pramanam amalam prema pum-artho mahan
sri-caitanya mahaprabhor matam idam tatradarah na parah

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna, the son of Nanda Maharaja, is worshipped along with His transcendental abode Vrndavana. The most pleasing form of worship for the Lord is that which was performed by the gopis of Vrndavana. Srimad Bhagavatam is the spotless authority on everything and pure love of Godhead is the ultimate goal of life for all men. These statements, for which we have the highest regard, are the opinion of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." (Caitanya-matta-manjusa by Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakura)


Lord Chaitanya gave to this world rasa-vicara. While the other Acharya's are relatively silent on this issue, He spoke about what actually happened in the spiritual world and the steps to attain it. He said that each and every soul had a specific relationship with Krsna (or another incarnation of Lord Visnu) in a specific mood (neutral, servant, brother, parent or lover). In based upon that mood, one would attain a spiritual body by which one will enter into Vaikuntha and be with Sri Krsna always forever engaging in spiritual pastimes which were ever blissful and new. These steps of Bhakti (starting from Sradha-faith and going all the way up to Prema) was recounted in Rupa Goswami's Bhaktirasamrta Sindu. He taught (Krsna Prema) was the fundamental religion of the soul and once has a right to Bhakti regardless of caste, gender of social status (in-fact he rejected the caste system present at the time). Haridasa Thakur was of muslim birth, and so the caste Brahmins rejected him (and also the Muslims) but Lord Chaitanya himself buried Haridas's body when he disappeared. His glories are endless, maybe I will speak about it in a later post. There is a song related to his disappearance we Gaudiyas sing whenever a Vaishnav passes away, in the mood of seperation.

Lord Chaitanya taught God is the ultimate storehouse of bliss, and we being His parts, desire to unite with Him (i.e get His association) and therein lies our bliss and satisfaction.

Lord Chaitanya also has a very special position in our Sampradaya because He is worshipped as Bhagavan alongside Sri Krsna. The worship of Lord Gauranga deva and especially that of our Lord Nitai is crucial to understanding in our understanding of Radha Krsna"

IMHO, intense love of Almighty irrespective of cast and creed, and piety.

Yup that is the the essence. :)

suno suno nityananda, suno haridas
sarvatra amar ajna koroho prakas prati ghare ghare giya koro ei bhiksa
bolo `krsna', bhajo krsna, koro krsna-siksa iha bai arna boliba,
bolaiba dina-avasane asi' amare kohiba
"

Listen, listen, Nityananda! Listen, Haridasa! Make My command known everywhere! Go from house to house and beg from all the residents, `Please chant Krsna's name, worship Krsna, and teach others to follow Krsna's instructions.' Do not speak, or cause anyone to speak, anything other than this."
 
Last edited:

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I do not know if all people became Hare-Krishnas and abandoned other dharmas of life (as Chaitanya and Nityananda did), what would happen? :wonder:
womeninsaffron.png
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
I do not know if all people became Hare-Krishnas and abandoned other dharmas of life, what would happen? :wonder:
womeninsaffron.png

Haha, that is the beauty. You don't have to abandon Dharma to worship the Lord. That was Lord Krsna's instruction to Arjuna. "Oh Arjuna perform Karma, but without attachment for the fruit of that Karma. Only perform your Dharma" And you know, for us, the highest Dharma is Bhagavat Bhakti :D. Not everyone has to become a Sannayasi. Remain in Grhasta asrama and worship the Lord if you want. I mean Ambarish Maharaj was such a great king, but he worshiped the Lord 24/7 mentally. Acharya's like Bhaktivinoda Thakur taught from personal example that its possible. That is Lord Gaura's instruction too:

"gṛhe thāko, vane thāko, sadā 'hari' bole' ḍāko,
sukhe duḥkhe bhulo nā'ko, vadane hari-nām koro re
"

"Whether you live in a house, or in the forest, always loudly chant Hari! Whether you are in happiness of sadness, always keep the Lord's name of your tongue"

There is a saying: "If the centres of circles are common, no matter how big or small they are, the circles will never cross. Similarly, if Lord Hari is the goal of society, then no matter where we are according to our spiritual capabilities,we will never have disagreements or clashes with someone else because the Goal is the same".
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
I wrote the answer to you in an Inbox Tereseji when you asked me the exact same question before. I will post that answer here:


"Lord Chaitanya taught quite a lot, and these teachings were heard and written down by His associates. His direct work was Sikshastakam (the 8 verses) which summarized Gaudiya philosophy. He also gave direct instructions to many of His disciples. The most important instructions were to Rupa Goswami and Sanatana Goswami and the dialogue between them can be found here (Sanatan Goswami's instructions, starts from verse 99) and (Rupa Goswami's instructions starts from verse 136). These instructions are also found in Chaitanya Bhagavata quite beautifully.

Later Jiva Goswami (who was also a disciple of Rupa and Sanatana) also systematized the philosophy into 6 books (called Sandarbhas) and provided Vedic backing for it (in His six Sandarbhas). Lord Chaitanya also took some crucial elements from the teachings of the 4 Vaishnav Sampradaya (and their acharyas) and incorporated them into His to form the Gaudiya Sampradaya. That is why we are indebted to the other Vaishnav Sampradayas and their acharyas and we always worship the dust of their Lotus Feet.

From Ramanujacharya He took:

1) concept of unalloyed devotion free from karma and jnana (ananya-bhakti)

2) service to the devotees bhakta-jana-seva

From Madhavacharya He took"

1) complete defeat of impersonal monism philosophy (kevale-advaita-nirasana)

2) worship of the deity of Krsna, understanding it to be eternal (krsna-murti-sevana)

3) He also borrowed from Madhavacharya the dasa-mula (10 philosophical teachings) and that is why the Lord took Diksha in Madhava's sampradaya.

From Visnuswami (Rudra Samparadaya)

1) the sentiment of total dependence on Krsna (tadiya-sarvasva-bhava)

2) the path of spontaneous devotional service (raga-marga)

and from Nimbarkacharya:

1) the necessity of taking exclusive shelter of Radhika (ekanta - radhikasraya)

2) the exalted mood of the gopis' love for Sri Krishna (gopi-bhava)

Thus Gaudiya philosophy thus can be summerized as follows:

aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanayas tad-dhama vrndavanam
ramya kacid upasana vraja-vadhu-vargena va kalpita
srimad bhagavatam pramanam amalam prema pum-artho mahan
sri-caitanya mahaprabhor matam idam tatradarah na parah

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krishna, the son of Nanda Maharaja, is worshipped along with His transcendental abode Vrndavana. The most pleasing form of worship for the Lord is that which was performed by the gopis of Vrndavana. Srimad Bhagavatam is the spotless authority on everything and pure love of Godhead is the ultimate goal of life for all men. These statements, for which we have the highest regard, are the opinion of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu." (Caitanya-matta-manjusa by Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakura)


Lord Chaitanya gave to this world rasa-vicara. While the other Acharya's are relatively silent on this issue, He spoke about what actually happened in the spiritual world and the steps to attain it. He said that each and every soul had a specific relationship with Krsna (or another incarnation of Lord Visnu) in a specific mood (neutral, servant, brother, parent or lover). In based upon that mood, one would attain a spiritual body by which one will enter into Vaikuntha and be with Sri Krsna always forever engaging in spiritual pastimes which were ever blissful and new. These steps of Bhakti (starting from Sradha-faith and going all the way up to Prema) was recounted in Rupa Goswami's Bhaktirasamrta Sindu. He taught (Krsna Prema) was the fundamental religion of the soul and once has a right to Bhakti regardless of caste, gender of social status (in-fact he rejected the caste system present at the time). Haridasa Thakur was of muslim birth, and so the caste Brahmins rejected him (and also the Muslims) but Lord Chaitanya himself buried Haridas's body when he disappeared. His glories are endless, maybe I will speak about it in a later post. There is a song related to his disappearance we Gaudiyas sing whenever a Vaishnav passes away, in the mood of seperation.

Lord Chaitanya taught God is the ultimate storehouse of bliss, and we being His parts, desire to unite with Him (i.e get His association) and therein lies our bliss and satisfaction.

Lord Chaitanya also has a very special position in our Sampradaya because He is worshipped as Bhagavan alongside Sri Krsna. The worship of Lord Gauranga deva and especially that of our Lord Nitai is crucial to understanding in our understanding of Radha Krsna"



Yup that is the the essence. :)

suno suno nityananda, suno haridas
sarvatra amar ajna koroho prakas prati ghare ghare giya koro ei bhiksa
bolo `krsna', bhajo krsna, koro krsna-siksa iha bai arna boliba,
bolaiba dina-avasane asi' amare kohiba
"

Listen, listen, Nityananda! Listen, Haridasa! Make My command known everywhere! Go from house to house and beg from all the residents, `Please chant Krsna's name, worship Krsna, and teach others to follow Krsna's instructions.' Do not speak, or cause anyone to speak, anything other than this."
Right...i forgot....:oops:
 

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Question: Did Chaitanya hate Advaitins? I've realised Gaudiyas call Advaitins 'Mayavadis'.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I will leave it to Nitai (Dasa) to explain it, but Hare-Krishnas are advaitins, only the difference is that they consider the Atma and Parmatma to be related in an "inconceivable/simultaneous difference and non-difference" (Acintya Bheda-Abheda).

Even your own variety is 'advaita' of a special kind, "Vishishta Advaita". Sri Madhvacharya was the only "Dvaitist".

Five fundamental, eternal and real differences are described in Dvaita school:

Between the individual souls (or jīvātman) and God (Brahmātmeśvara or Vishnu).
Between matter (inanimate, insentient) and God.
Between individual souls (jīvātman)
Between matter and jīvatman.
Between various types of matter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvaita#Philosophy
 
Last edited:
Top