Gay adoption is good for children

[Autodidact]

My views come from my religious belief that the roles of mother and father are sacred and not interchangeable. My friendships and associations with homosexual men or women have not changed my moral beliefs. But I hold those friendships dear. Its a difficult debate since my stand comes from my christian religion, and there is little common ground in this thread. But I stand by what I say as do you all. Good luck and God speed!!

I think you should stick by your religious beliefs. If you decide to have children, make sure that you do it with a father and at least one mother. But why should I, or the children who need families, have to stick by your religious beliefs?

 

[Blentyn chan Celi]

This doesn't seem like the best forum but couldn't find one more suitable. I would like to discuss the assertion that permitting gay and lesbian people to adopt is beneficial to children. Would anyone care to argue the other side?

I dunno Auto. In spite of my personal feelings toward homosexuals, I can’t help but think you would be a good parent.
On the whole, in spite of the social implications, I can only say that growing up in a somewhat unorthodox family is far better than growing up as a ward to the state.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

My views come from my religious belief that the roles of mother and father are sacred and not interchangeable. My friendships and associations with homosexual men or women have not changed my moral beliefs. But I hold those friendships dear. Its a difficult debate since my stand comes from my christian religion, and there is little common ground in this thread. But I stand by what I say as do you all. Good luck and God speed!!

So if these things aren't interchangeable, does this mean that the fact we go camping as a family, my husband does 90% of the cooking, I'm a far more capable handyman than he is - my grandfather taught me not to have to rely on anyone to do things for me that I was perfectly capable of doing myself, if I followed my mother's example I'd think the appropriate response to a flat tyre is to stand by the side of the road looking wistful until some big, strong manly man comes along to save me from the icky prospect of dirty hands - and we both shoot, though admittedly he is a far more capable shot than I am, is somehow strange and potentially wrong? We even took turns as to who stayed home with the kids while the other worked, until they were all at school and we could both work.
He's hugely into fishing...my son isn't that keen on it, but he will come and ask me to show him how to make various items of jewelry or get my opinion on designs he's working on. One of our daughters - strangely it's the 'princess' - is quite keen to go out with him and get covered in fish guts.
Are we messing up this whole God ordained gender role thing royally, or what? Will the kiddies be maladjusted as a result? :help:

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Great post Starfish. My family is set up the same way, and has been for generations. Me and my drink beer together and chill in the garage all the time. Also with my brothers we chop down trees with chainsaws and chop wood to keep our house warm, just work around the house in general, while my mom cooks, cleans, and does laundary, and always has good advice to give. I wouldn't trade in my dad for twenty moms, or my mom for twenty dads. It's the perfect balance. My girlfriend recently moved in, and she makes an excellent team with my mother, it's an amazing feeling.

But as far as arguing with the lesbians and gays, you're wasting your time and breath, trust me, it's a mission impossible. Our experience and opinion is irrelevent on this subject, lol.

And if your mother was handy with a chainsaw, and your dad was a bang up cook with a bucket load of good advice, would that have made for a horrible and unsettling home life for you? I doubt it.
As for you not wanting to trade in your parents, well of course you don't. It would have to have been a horrible childhood for you to even consider that. But assuming you had been a child without any parents, would you have traded spending your childhood as an orphan without a loving home for two dads or two mums? Or would you prefer to be alone and hold out for the 'social norm', even if it never came? Do you think it's preferable for those kids who are in that very position to be denied a loving home just because you wouldn't trade your parents and the way you were raised?
Your experience of your own homelife is quite relevent to what a good two parent family can achieve...what it doesn't prove is that one of those parents has to be a different sex to the other in order to achieve that.

 

[kdrier]

The difference is that I'm not generalizing from my own experience to tell you how to live your life. I don't have any problem with your arranging your life as you see fit, but I do have a huge problem with your attempting to arrange my life as you see fit.

It has been shown repeatedly that adoption by same-sex children is good for children. The best response you and Starfish can come up with is (1) "We don't believe in that" and (2) "That's not how we do things."

I don't have a problem with your life, don't get the wrong impression. The only argument I've made is a tradional is more suited, and I will not say anymore on the subject. It's my my unsupported opinion. need not argue with me. For my justication see my past posts. I will not repeat myself.

no one is denying this!!!! all we are saying is that this is not the only style of family unit that can bring joy to people. is that really so hard to understand?

I agree 100% and never argued against this. Please read my responses people word for word and don't make assumptions.

btw, I think if you had a son who did not enjoy these things, but who liked collecting stamps, fashion and playing the violin, he might not enjoy growing up in your kind of family.

lol, he definitely wouldn't. My parents would probably put him up for adoption to a gay couple, because it would probably be more suited.

just kidding.

 

[rheff78]

you know the good thing about having homosexaul children? you don't have to worry about them coming home pregnant or getting someone pregnant. that's got to be huge bonus.

 

[Francine]

you know the good thing about having homosexaul children? you don't have to worry about them coming home pregnant or getting someone pregnant. that's got to be huge bonus.

But if you have a boy you might have to worry about him coming home HIV positive, or getting someone HIV positive.

 

[Mike182]

you know the good thing about having homosexaul children? you don't have to worry about them coming home pregnant or getting someone pregnant. that's got to be huge bonus.

or just teach your kids to have safe sex

 

[rheff78]

or just teach your kids to have safe sex

we all know that doesn't always work. but it does bring up another point. Do parents of gay children have to have the birds and the bees talk? it seems kind of pointless.

 

[Autodidact]

I dunno Auto. In spite of my personal feelings toward homosexuals, I can’t help but think you would be a good parent.
On the whole, in spite of the social implications, I can only say that growing up in a somewhat unorthodox family is far better than growing up as a ward to the state.

Thanks Blentyn, nice to see an open mind.

 

[Autodidact]

The only argument I've made is a tradional is more suited, and I will not say anymore on the subject. It's my my unsupported opinion. need not argue with me. For my justication see my past posts. I will not repeat myself.

Got it. That's your opinion, it's completely unjustified, but you plan on keeping in anyway, in defiance of reality. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Autodidact]

you know the good thing about having homosexaul children? you don't have to worry about them coming home pregnant or getting someone pregnant. that's got to be huge bonus.

Bingo. It's also one of the advantages of being homosexual. Of course, when you do want to reproduce, there are some challenges that heterosexuals don't have.

 

[rheff78]

As Seinfeld said, the other perk of being gay is that if you're with someone the same size as you, you automatically double your wardrobe.

 

[rheff78]

Got it. That's your opinion, it's completely unjustified, but you plan on keeping in anyway, in defiance of reality. Thanks for sharing.

But there we go again. You are accusing kdrier of the same thing you are doing. Being completely unjustified. Again, you tend to think your opinion is the correct one and kdrier is wrong. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Autodidact]

But there we go again. You are accusing kdrier of the same thing you are doing. Being completely unjustified. Again, you tend to think your opinion is the correct one and kdrier is wrong. Pot, meet kettle.

No. I am informed. I have read the research. I do know both gay and straight families. My opinion is based on actual experience and evidence, as I have shown in this thread. kdrier has said that his opinion is unsupported; mine is amply supported, and that's the difference.

It's not having opinions that's a problem, it's having opinions without any justification or support, even in defiance of the facts. In that case "opinions" is a polite word for what they are.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My faith and beliefs are different from yours, and I understand you resenting it if it seems I am imposing them on you. But I have to trust God, over me, over you, over everyone. How dare I feel this way? I have to.

There's one important detail you skipped, though: you're not trusting God over everyone, you're trusting your own interpretation of what God wants over everyone.

Regardless of how perfect you believe God's plan to be, you (and I, and everyone else) sees imperfectly and reasons imperfectly. To claim that what you understand to be God's plan should be required for all, you have to declare two things, at least implicitly:

1. that God has a perfect plan.
2. that you have perfect knowledge of that plan.

Regardless of your feelings on #1, hopefully you recognize that in order to claim #2 implies that you have some form of omniscience. Do you?

My views come from my religious belief that the roles of mother and father are sacred and not interchangeable. My friendships and associations with homosexual men or women have not changed my moral beliefs. But I hold those friendships dear. Its a difficult debate since my stand comes from my christian religion, and there is little common ground in this thread. But I stand by what I say as do you all. Good luck and God speed!!

The Christian religion includes a wide range of beliefs on homosexuality and the roles of men and women. I'm not sure it's fair for you to give the title "Christian religion" to your beliefs alone.

 

[Mike182]

we all know that doesn't always work. but it does bring up another point. Do parents of gay children have to have the birds and the bees talk? it seems kind of pointless.

well, it works better than ignoring the topic all together. yes, the children of gay parents should be spoken to, by their parents, about sex, the birds and the bees, or what other phrase you want to use to describe it, surely everyone should have that talk before they start to explore their body and other people's bodies?

 

[rheff78]

I don't know, the point of the sex talk always seemed to be about the possibility of getting pregnant. If that's no longer a threat, what purpose would there be to ahve the talk.

 

[kdrier]

No. I am informed. I have read the research. I do know both gay and straight families. My opinion is based on actual experience and evidence, as I have shown in this thread. kdrier has said that his opinion is unsupported; mine is amply supported, and that's the difference.

I don't believe your research just like you don't believe mine. Just because my research is done by people who are honest about being against gay adoption does not make it completely untrue. You can't prove your research is true. Just because a few scientists say so something is true does not make it true.

I did some more research just out of curiousity.

Adult Children Speak Out About Same-Sex Parents

Cassidy's story is not science. It's just her own feelings. Many researchers say most kids do just fine in these alternative family forms. Cassidy doesn't buy that research, though. "I don't think a fair study could be conducted because children currently in that family wouldn't necessarily be open to speaking their true feelings about it."

Epinions.com - Having a homosexual parent

It's stories like this auto, and I'm sure there is many others, that justify my opinion that a tradional family is more suited than a homosexual one. Read the whole story, read all the parameters involved, put your bias aside. Anyone can pretend to be happy. I don't care about scientists, and I'm sure you do for obvious reasons, but this proves that having homosexual parents are more problematic. However, that's not to say the child can't be happy with them. There is exceptions to everything.


Here is one from a gay website, no bias there.

glbtq >> social sciences >> Children of GLBTQ Parents

It does not say anything too serious, just notes that kids with homosexual parents encounter more problems and struggles. In return it might make them a stronger person in order to get through that, but they only have to become a stronger person to cope with all the problems in their life caused by having homosexual parents. Obviously, like I've said a million times, there is exceptions.

Also note, my argument that a traditional family is better than a homosexual family, only qualifies if the parental parameters are equal. If a traditional family is abusive or anything, than yes, a homosexual is probably better. I know kids who have gotten beat up, critized, had to be counseled, all because they were gay.

I found research that matters. I want research from someone who has homosexual parents and claims homosexual parents are as good as traditional, because the children are the only people I'm concerned about. And no, people you know don't count. Of course your kids will tell you what you want to hear.

And go ahead, tell me my research is done by anti gays or it can't be proved, blah, blah, blah. The wheel goes round. =)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't know, the point of the sex talk always seemed to be about the possibility of getting pregnant. If that's no longer a threat, what purpose would there be to ahve the talk.

off the top of my head...

- STDs
- the emotional implications of having sex
- its place and appropriateness in a relationship (whatever your view is on this)
- to answer any questions your child might have about a topic that is probably large and confusing to your child, and on which a lot of misinformation is floating around

I don't believe your research just like you don't believe mine. Just because my research is done by people who are honest about being against gay adoption does not make it completely untrue. You can't prove your research is true. Just because a few scientists say so something is true does not make it true.

No - the validity of a scientific claim comes from adherence to the scientific method and repeatability of the results. I have yet to see any anti-gay study that even follows basic scientific principles.