Gay Radicals Disrupt/Protest Worship Services

[LuisDantas]

LuisDantas

I think perhaps homosexuals should explore in further depth their identity as a unique group of people. People like others who are secure in their identity. If im secure in my identity i wouldnt want to try and take on the identity of a xhosa, a zulu, an indian.

Well, I find that conception a bit weird, really. It overrates the very simple and small matter of sexual orientation.

I venture to guess, heck, to assume that most homosexuals see no appeal in the idea of building an unique, distinct homosexual culture. I certainly don't. It would create far more trouble than it solves.

We are all unique. Uniqueness is what seperates us. Love is what makes us equal. Not a piece of paper!

True enough, but when such a paper has so much weight, there is no shame in valuing it.

The worst thing to observes is an evangelist that talks like Jimmy Swaggart, dresses like he did, and aquires his mannerism. He has just lost his identity. He's trying to be someone else.

Homosexuals need to be separate in order to stand on their own.

Why? Myself, I think the idea is to let them blend in, as is their right and probably their convenience.

They need and should maintaing their own identity as a community and fiddling around with the heterosexual marriage concept is contradicting.

It would be, if they generally aimed for a separate culture. Such is not the case.

Its like they are saying, im comfortable with being homosexual, but i prefer the cookies out of the homosexual jar.

Uh?

I think that homosexuals need to, if they are going to survive and stand on their feet, make a far greater attempt at being comfortable with themselves and their uniqueness. What an awesome oppportunity for them to pioneer gay marriages! Why distort and cloud it with an effort to be 'married' as heterosexuals.

Because the distortion is in wanting to establish such a separation in the first place, really.

The term civil union has become a snare to them? Why? It was their opportunity to start with SOMETHING and then build on.

That's what they are attempting to do, and what initiatives such as Proposition 8 hinder them to do, however.

Hmmm....i think that its easier to get the cookies out of someone elses jar, rather than bake our own.

Ah, so that's what you mean. You see marriage as some sort of heterosexual property that is being seized upon.

LuisDantas, im afraid you dont understand what im trying to say....if the gay people are going to survive, without the added hate and bitterness of the people that at the moment support them as well, they will have to put away the protests, and life the philosophy they so dearly proclaim.

Heneni

I think I do understand, I just don't see much reason in it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The tithe did not go towards the Prop 8 campaign.

Not directly, but it did go toward providing a venue for promotion of that campaign. The LDS Church did indirectly support the "yes" campaign in a number of campaigns. Tithes helped this happen. I realize that they also help many other things happen, which I realize would affect a person's assessment of the effect of tithes, but this impact on same-sex marriage is a part of it.

I faced a similar dilemma (though not exactly the same) with my wife's church: I recognized that the Catholic Church does a lot of good, but I think it does a lot of bad as well. In the end, I decided not to give the Church any money, and instead support secular charities that have similar positive effects without the negative baggage.

 

[Magic Man]

Listen sunstone...isnt america suppose to be the land of opportunity? Is that because everybody is white? There are different cultures within communities. I dont have to be a zulu to be equal to a zulu. I dont have to be a transvestite to be equal to them. I dont have to be you, to be equal to you. However, having said that...im thinking that you have no intention of thinking of me as your equal, hence you cannot see that there are thousands of people who live seperately, how have seperate communities, who have different sexual orientations, who DO actually live together.

Heneni, why do you feel that it's better for homosexuals to have something other than marriage? Do you feel that atheists should push for a civil union equal to marriage? do you feel that Buddhists or Wiccans should? I would assume that marriage should only be for memebers of an Abrahamic religion, according to you. Isn't that right? So, why are homosexuals singled out?

Now, there's no reason for homosexuals to want anything but a marriage. As far as I know, their marriages won't be like yours, unless you plan to marry someone of the same sex. They will have their own unique marriages.

Separate but equal just doesn't work. If they are allowed to have the same rights as people with marriages, then there's no reason not to just give them marriages. If we give them civil unions that are equal to marriages, it just creates more legal jargon and problems. Instead it's immensely easier just to call their unions marriages.

There can be peace in diversity. It only takes compassion. Something you dont seem to have...hence your splitting hair comment about 'rattling off my mouth'.

Actually, it would be people on your side of the argument who don't want diversity. You don't want to have to change, and I'd hardly call keeping others from enjoying the same rights as you "compassion".

You live you learn. Havent learnt anything from you in the last few posts. You having a bad day are you?

Heneni

I'm going to guess that Sunstone is a little frustrated by your ignorance on this matter, and your unwillingness to learn anything about it.

 

[Magic Man]

Thats exactly what most heterosexuals arent falling for,.

We do not believe that just because we dont want to part with the term marriage that it is discrimination.

Why would you part with the term "marriage"? As far as I know, homosexuals are still willing to let heterosexuals use the term for their unions, too, or did I miss something?

Whenever some people dont get what they want, they call it discrimination.

Um...yeah. Imagine that. Whenever someone doesn't get a basic human right that others get, they call it discrimination. Who woulda thunk it?

Its not discrimination if you can have your own type of marriage. But that is not good enough. Homosexuals, want the HETEROSEXUAL marriage.

What do you call that?

No, homosexuals don't want heterosexual marriage. They want to marry someone of the same sex. You do see how that works, right? It's discrimination if you have a right that I don't have with no legitimate reason to deny it to me.

I call it discrimination.

 

[Heneni]

Sunstone is frustrated? Scandelous! Hell get over it.

As far as reasoning with you dear mball. I woudnt dream of it.:no:

Ill try once though, just for your amusement.

LET HOMOSEXUALS HAVE THEIR OWN TYPE/FORM/KIND of 'marriage'. DONT CALL IT 'marriage'. LET IT BE LIKE A HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE IF THAT IS REALLY WHAT THEY WANT.

Get it?:sarcastic

Heneni

 

[Magic Man]

LuisDantas

I think perhaps homosexuals should explore in further depth their identity as a unique group of people. People like others who are secure in their identity. If im secure in my identity i wouldnt want to try and take on the identity of a xhosa, a zulu, an indian.

Homosexuals tend to be quite secure in their identity. It's unfortunate you aren't, and are afraid that sharing with them will somehow ruin your life.

We are all unique. Uniqueness is what seperates us. Love is what makes us equal. Not a piece of paper!

Great, then let's just do away with all of the legal rights of marriage, and leave it as a religious institution, right?

They need and should maintaing their own identity as a community and fiddling around with the heterosexual marriage concept is contradicting. Its like they are saying, im comfortable with being homosexual, but i prefer the cookies out of the heterosexaul jar.

No, it's like they're saying they want the same legal rights as others. Remember, this isn't about religion at all, but about a state contract.

I think that homosexuals need to, if they are going to survive and stand on their feet, make a far greater attempt at being comfortable with themselves and their uniqueness. What an awesome oppportunity for them to pioneer gay marriages! Why distort and cloud it with an effort to be 'married' as heterosexuals.

Um...They are trying to pioneer gay marriages.:areyoucra

The term civil union has become a snare to them? Why? It was their opportunity to start with SOMETHING and then build on. Hmmm....i think that its easier to get the cookies out of someone elses jar, rather than bake our own.

Well, for one, they're not taking anything away from anyone else (as in your analogy). In your analogy, they're just trying to be able to bake their own cookies. They want to bake chocolate chip cookies just like everyone else.

LuisDantas, im afraid you dont understand what im trying to say....if the gay people are going to survive, without the added hate and bitterness of the people that at the moment support them as well, they will have to put away the protests, and life the philosophy they so dearly proclaim.

Heneni

No, we all understand what you're trying to say. You're just wrong.

So, gay people should know their place so that they don't anger the heterosexuals? Yeah, that's very nice of you. How about this: How about the bigotted heterosexuals stop their hatred because there's no need for it? How about the onus is on heterosexuals to end their own hatred and bitterness, but until they do, homosexuals are going to protest and demonstrate in their fight for equality.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I find it incredibly sad that people have found the need to be so hostile towards each other, but it is hopelessly human.

LET HOMOSEXUALS HAVE THEIR OWN TYPE/FORM/KIND of 'marriage'. DONT CALL IT 'marriage'. LET IT BE LIKE A HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE IF THAT IS REALLY WHAT THEY WANT.

I think the inevitability that homosexuals will have their own form of "marriage" also means the inevitability that it will be referred to as "marriage." It is the name we have given it.

Even if legally it is not called such, it will commonly be referred to as such. Until a law is passed that prohibits the use of the word "marriage" to denote things that are not legally defined as such, it will be so. And if such a law is passed, I think an even worse reaction would occur.

 

[Magic Man]

Sunstone is frustrated? Scandelous! Hell get over it.

As far as reasoning with you dear mball. I woudnt dream of it.:no:

You're welcome to try to reason with me, I just haven't seen you reason on this topic yet.

Ill try once though, just for your amusement.

Wait, so you're chastising Sunstone for "running away" (even though he was really just trying to avoid saying something he didn't want to), but then you're not going to stick it out?

LET HOMOSEXUALS HAVE THEIR OWN TYPE/FORM/KIND of 'marriage'. DONT CALL IT 'marriage'. LET IT BE LIKE A HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE IF THAT IS REALLY WHAT THEY WANT.

WHY NOT CALL IT MARRIAGE? IT WOULD BE LIKE A HETEROSEXUAL MARRIAGE THEN. IT WOULD BE THEIR OWN TYPE OF MARRIAGE BECAUSE IT WOULD INVOLVE TWO PEOPLE OF THE SAME GENDER.

(See? I can use capital letters, too. )

Get it?:sarcastic

Heneni

Got it. You are turned off by homosexuals, and don't understand them because you don't try, and so you are prejudiced against them. Don't worry, it's very clear.

 

[Heneni]

Im turned off by gay aggression.

If gays would just be happy with civil unions.....but alas they are not. THEN CHANGE it to what they feel they need, then given enough time, im sure that the whole thing about marriage for heterosexuals and civil unions for homosexuals, will simply become redundant. People are NOT ready to give up on the term 'marriage'. If homosexuals are going to force the issue, they will loose more ground than they gain.

Thats about it from me about this topic.

Heneni

 

[Magic Man]

Im turned off by gay aggression.

Great. Then you're not turned off by about 90% of the gay community, right?

If gays would just be happy with civil unions.....but alas they are not. THEN CHANGE it to what they feel they need, then given enough time, im sure that the whole thing about marriage for heterosexuals and civil unions for homosexuals, will simply become redundant. People are NOT ready to give up on the term 'marriage'. If homosexuals are going to force the issue, they will loose more ground than they gain.

They'd be satisfied with civil unions that granted them exactly equal rights, but not fully because it being called a civil union still implies that they're lesser. People don't have to give up the term "marriage". Everyone who currently uses it will still be more than welcome to continue. If homosexuals don't force the issue, nothing will change.

Thats about it from me about this topic.

Heneni

I only wish it meant that you had learned something and had changed your view a bit, but alas, I fear that's not the case.

 

[Heneni]

I only wish it meant that you had learned something and had changed your view a bit, but alas, I fear that's not the case.

That by the way is what gets many heterosexuals in a twist. Gays wanna change US, while they wanna stay who they are.

:help: I wont be intimidated into thinking differently. Some are easily intimidated. Nobody HAS to concern themselves with the gay agenda. Just like nobody HAS to subsribe to a religion.

If gays are so prone to say that we try and tell them what to do and think, why are they constantly telling me what to think?

Sorry but gays have to start being who they say they are. Freedom fighters. And that should include my freedom to think and choose against their agenda if i so wished, otherwise the gay community is simply oppressing the hetersexuals, the very thing they claim the heterosexuals are doing to them.

 

[Autodidact]

This is my understanding. If I am wrong it is my own fault and I encourage those who know more than me to make corrections.



The money the LDS Church donated to the YES on Prop 8 campaign came from the individual contributions of members. These members gave their money to the church and designated it as YES on Prop 8 money. This money was above and beyond the normal 10% tithe some LDS pay. In other words, the YES on Prop 8 money was it's own budget line - the LDS Church was acting as the middle-man between the members and Protect Marriage. In short, it was these donations the Church contributed. It did not contribute money from tithes or other sources of revenue.

Thanks.
Wow, those Mormons are really obsessed with gay people in another state.

 

[Autodidact]

If having a roof over your head is a fundamental right as well, does that mean the gardener should move into my house? How about we build him his own? Just like the gay people who have been previously disadvantaged and have not been able to marry...should we give them the heterosexaul marriage institution, or give them their own institution? Why are gay people not happy with civil unions? Rather fight that to make it what they want it to be, dont take what belongs to another.

I

Heneni

1. It isn't.
2. How about you just leave him alone to build his own house, and don't make a law against it?

Can you think of any reason why gay people are not satisfied with civil unions? Here, try this: would you be? And where on earth did someone get to OWN marriage? Here's reality: You own your marriage, and I own mine.

 

[Autodidact]

Hi Luisdantas

If i were gay, i would feel like i wanted my own type of marriage that is not the same as heterosexual marriages.

I would want to have my own identity and to celebrate that unique identity i would want my own type of 'marriage'.

Well that's fine, but might you not want the same legal right that everyone else has?

I find it odd that the gay community isnt working harder to have civil unions changed in a way that they would approve of. Rather they are trying to take on the old traditional heterosexual marriage, and make that their own.

Actually I agree with this, which is why I don't want to get married. However, what I am concerned with is rights and inequality.

Its contradicting. While gay people advocate that their equal and yet unique in their sexual preferences, they are not trying hard enough to get their own unique marriage, but rather wants to take on the heterosexual marriage which in effect is NOT what they are.

So...whats up? The gay people are not hetereosexual, yet they want what has been identified with heterosexual union for eons.

Shouldn't it be up to the individual? What gives you the right to decide what's best for gay people? Or, as some say, when do I get to vote on your rights?

 

[Autodidact]

Im wondering why would gay people WANT to have a marriage that has always been associated with heterosexaulity.

And I'm asking why straight people want to restrict what gay people want. In a nutshell, shouldn't that be up to gay people?

 

[Autodidact]

Then they have to make sure they are not vulnerable. Do they need the protection of heterosexuals to not be vulnerable. They are equal to heterosexuals. Seperate but equal is a reality sunstone. Whenever people dont celebrate their uniqueness they end up having no identity at all. I can be seperate yet equal because im not insecure about who i am.

Heneni

This has not been the law in our land since 1954. Maybe it's because you already have equal rights, and then get to decide whether to enjoy them or not?

 

[Autodidact]

Listen sunstone...isnt america suppose to be the land of opportunity? Is that because everybody is white? There are different cultures within communities. I dont have to be a zulu to be equal to a zulu. I dont have to be a transvestite to be equal to them. I dont have to be you, to be equal to you. However, having said that...im thinking that you have no intention of thinking of me as your equal, hence you cannot see that there are thousands of people who live seperately, how have seperate communities, who have different sexual orientations, who DO actually live together.

There can be peace in diversity. It only takes compassion. Something you dont seem to have...hence your splitting hair comment about 'rattling off my mouth'.

You live you learn. Havent learnt anything from you in the last few posts. You having a bad day are you?

Heneni

Do you even think before you start typing? Gay people aren't trying to be straight. They're trying to have equal rights to straight people. You are arguing against that. I'd rather have equality than compassion for my inequality, thank you very much.

 

[Heneni]

1. It isn't.
2. How about you just leave him alone to build his own house, and don't make a law against it?

Can you think of any reason why gay people are not satisfied with civil unions? Here, try this: would you be? And where on earth did someone get to OWN marriage? Here's reality: You own your marriage, and I own mine.

OH MY GOODNESS!!!!! Look who's back! First of all, im not satisfied with the service at my local shop. No point in complaining to myself and my friends i need to DO something about it. If gays are not satisfied with civil unions, then DO something about it. And by that i dont mean go and take the heterosexual marriage. Really, gay people can be more resourceful. And i think that you own your marriage and i own mine isnt a bad idea.

 

[Autodidact]

Until homosexuals take themselves out of the shadow of heterosexuals they will never come out of the closet.

Everywhere the heterosexuals go...there the homosexuals want to go.

Heterosexuals have marriage...homosexuals want marriage.

Im saying...i wannna move so that the homosexuals can get their own light, but they dont wanna get out of the shadow!

All of this protesting have got the heterosexuals thinking. And contrary to popular belief many of us have been listening to their plight.

We have heard it said...(the homosexuals say....)

We are equal
We are not less citizens
We are contributing to society
We are no different than others (contradicting speech)

Basically homosexuals have tried so hard to appear to have it together that now ideed they dont look like the 'oppressed' anymore. They have convinced most of us... And since most of us are now convinced, any form of protest is contradicting the image of them we have in our minds of secure, confident, equal, contributing citizens.

Shooting themselves in the foot. Now when people who have a rather sound oppinion of homosexuals find them protesting and bickering and fighting, we tend to think they might not have it so togehter as we thought.

Thats also fine. But actuallly you see, homosexuals have succeeded in making some believe they are better than what they are...and now...when they resort to protest...it damages their public image.

Heneni

How about actual equality then? And how do you suggest we go about getting it?

 

[Autodidact]

If homosexuals want to be together, then they can be, but instead they are making this a 'term' issue. They want the term 'marriage' .

If anybody tells me, that they will feel less of a person, because they cant use the term married, im inclined to think thats childish.

Is this about being together as a couple, or is this about getting what we want, regardless of what the heterosexuals feel about their term 'marriage'.

If there was really compassion for the heterosexuals from the homosexuals, they would not push this agenda, because it is hurtfull to many heterosexuals. And so the very thing that homosexuals seem to be the experts on...which is RIGHTS, are in no way, even slightly considering the RIGHT of the heterosexual to keep their term 'marriage'

If it offends others to want to coin their term 'marriage' why persue it and keep on persuing it if there is an alternative?

I say.....the homosexuals should have, from the start, asked for a unique marriage. Now that they cant have the term 'marriage' they think they are loosing out on something, when in fact all that has happened is their ego's have been hurt. I would like to see homosexuals unite in order to make civil unions, which could have been amended in significant ways, their own unique marriage.

Many heterosexuals feel that you cant have my toy, but you can have your own. Why do some homosexuals not get that?

Heneni

If you find the idea of someone else getting married hurtful, then you have problems I can't help you with. No one's trying to take anything away from you, Heneni, and equality does not have to mean taking something away, it can mean making the circle bigger so everyone is equal.