Gay

[Riverwolf]

If you don't want your thoughts examined by the general public, don't put them out for general consumption. If you've got the stones to say it, have the stones to take the fallout.

Still gathering some for myself, admittedly, but I'm getting better! (I hope).

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't have a problem with my thoughts being examined or even disputed, it's the abuse of power used to silence the expression of those thoughts that I have issues with.

Are you in jail for saying these things? Has a judge or the FCC advised you to not say these things anymore under penalty of law?

If the answer is no, your expression of your thoughts is not being silenced by any power abuse.

 

[ether-ore]

That's okay. Agreement is not expected.

Obviously. There can be not agreement where there is no cogent dialog. Your grasping at straws in an attempt to use shaming tactics isn't relevant to anything I've said. Besides, your use of an obscure phrase,,, "wile pence", really makes no sense. You really are out in left field.

 

[ether-ore]

Are you in jail for saying these things? Has a judge or the FCC advised you to not say these things anymore under penalty of law?

If the answer is no, your expression of your thoughts is not being silenced by any power abuse.

No, not here... yet. I was referring to some bitterness I still feel for being banned from another forum for expressing the same thoughts. I call that an abuse of power.

 

[izzy4games12]

As a gay man, I don't argue with homophobes (who are usually conservative or of abrahamic worldview, let's be real) for various reasons.

Firstly, I can't control what others think. Frankly what others think is none of my business and out of my control. Trying to change people, even if they're being blatantly ignorant, is only going to end up with me losing energy and time.

Secondly, in a zealot's debate, to be blunt, that's not MY god. Those aren't MY rules. Jews can refuse pork as long as they don't look to force everyone else to give up bacon. You can follow your own rules in The US, but the only ones we all must follow are the American laws which are meant to have no ill will nor preference to anything associated with God, spirit or religion.

If in your culture, you believe a man is dishonorable for marrying a man, whatever. I'm not of that worldview though. Your sky god, honestly, doesn't mean anything to me, like how my gods mean little to you. Just like how I can't control others' ignorance, they can't control my love.

I don't waste my time with people converting me because neither of us has control over the other.

My names Izzy, and your story is a flip path to my recent and ongoing route with this "sky god". What I mean is that instead of choosing to not believe in God and stay on the gay route, I grasped those nudges and bounced away from a really weird time in my life.
I'm not gonna go into detail but my rebirth in Christ (I was also raised in Christianity but had a fallout), but God made me realize that it was poison to my soul.

I was in and out of sexual relations with many guys and it was draining me, and a part of me knew it. I kept on though, and then God kinda let the chains loose on some kind of entity. I believe he allowed it to attack me to show me what I was doing to myself with lust and unnatural actions.

The love in a gay relationships real, but not really what God wants. It's still hard to get used to, but I feel urges that are always very pulling but it's those urges that make me realize that life shouldn't be like that.

Through all of this it's been so easy to love other people that are gay while knowing who I am with God there.

Just as an fyi, this isn't me pushing a conversion, but it's good for thought.

 

[Nietzsche]

I freely admit it's taken me some time to dump that baggage. As a Christian I knelt, bowed my head and genuflected, as a Hindu I prostrated and bowed my head. Until recently when doing my hammer donning prayers I'd get down on one knee with my fist over my heart. But I was getting the feeling Thor was probably and thinking "I wish he'd get up!" There's some discussion around about whether the Norse bowed or prostrated at times. If they saw the Gods, ancestors, wights as our kin I don't think they would make themselves subservient. Would anyone bow to their grandmother or grandfather? It's an Indian custom, but we're not Indian.

There are woodcuts of Germanics getting down upon one knee, arms spread like a hug, and facing the sky or horizon, reminiscent in a way of how a father calls out to his young children.

 

[Norman]

As a gay man, I don't argue with homophobes (who are usually conservative or of abrahamic worldview, let's be real) for various reasons.

Firstly, I can't control what others think. Frankly what others think is none of my business and out of my control. Trying to change people, even if they're being blatantly ignorant, is only going to end up with me losing energy and time.

Secondly, in a zealot's debate, to be blunt, that's not MY god. Those aren't MY rules. Jews can refuse pork as long as they don't look to force everyone else to give up bacon. You can follow your own rules in The US, but the only ones we all must follow are the American laws which are meant to have no ill will nor preference to anything associated with God, spirit or religion.

If in your culture, you believe a man is dishonorable for marrying a man, whatever. I'm not of that worldview though. Your sky god, honestly, doesn't mean anything to me, like how my gods mean little to you. Just like how I can't control others' ignorance, they can't control my love.

I don't waste my time with people converting me because neither of us has control over the other.

Norman: Hi EyeofOdin, what is your question?

 

[Norman]

My names Izzy, and your story is a flip path to my recent and ongoing route with this "sky god". What I mean is that instead of choosing to not believe in God and stay on the gay route, I grasped those nudges and bounced away from a really weird time in my life.
I'm not gonna go into detail but my rebirth in Christ (I was also raised in Christianity but had a fallout), but God made me realize that it was poison to my soul.

I was in and out of sexual relations with many guys and it was draining me, and a part of me knew it. I kept on though, and then God kinda let the chains loose on some kind of entity. I believe he allowed it to attack me to show me what I was doing to myself with lust and unnatural actions.

The love in a gay relationships real, but not really what God wants. It's still hard to get used to, but I feel urges that are always very pulling but it's those urges that make me realize that life shouldn't be like that.

Through all of this it's been so easy to love other people that are gay while knowing who I am with God there.

Just as an fyi, this isn't me pushing a conversion, but it's good for thought.

Norman: Hi izzy4games12, thank you for sharing your story, it is very inspirational and encouraging to read.

 

[Norman]

Just because you believe your rules apply to me, as well as other non-Christians, does not mean they do. Your rules don't apply to me. It's as simple as that. And if your god is real, some of us would rather go to hell than spend eternity with him. To us, your rules really don't apply at all. You may judge us based on your rules, but it's unreasonable to hold us to them.

Norman: Hi Shadow Wolf, really? You would really rather go to Hell than spend eternity with God? I am sorry, you sound a big naïve and ignorant at the same time. If you really understood what you are saying I think you would have a different perspective on what you just said.

 

[Norman]

I'd do shots with Satan any day.
Better than the slave owning cloud magician that has some f***ed up fetishes.

Norman: Hi Deathbydefault, I don't really believe you actually know who Satan really is for you to make that comment. You are saying and feeling exactly what Satan want's, he is a deceiver and he definitely does not care about you. Satan just want's to destroy as many people as he can and become miserable like he is.

 

[Norman]

It's not that simple.

For instance, how exactly would you feel if someone told you this: in following Christianity, you are a automatically traitor to your People, and to the Gods of your People, and are to be shunned and pitied accordingly, as an Outlaw?

Now, take that one step further: imagine that it's your entire native culture that claims this? You hear it every single day from people not even talking to you directly, just in reference to people like you. You also hear, every day, that people like you should be rounded up and killed?

That's still not a perfect equivalent, because being Christian is a choice. Being homosexual is not.

And for the record, I don't actually believe any of that hypothetical drivel. Can't betray something to which you never swore allegiance to, and I strongly believe that the sins of the parent die with the parent.

Norman: Hi Riverwolf, I hear that all the time that homosexuality is not a choice, however, did you find a gene to back that assumption up?

 

[Norman]

Tell you what . . . I'm going to hold you to a standard that you treat all people as though they were your god's pet. That you never say an unkind word even if you think it's loving the sinner and "for their own good". That you never say something to your fellow man that you have to validate by saying "god says it". Do that, and I might begin to look differently at your 2000+ year old morals.

Norman: Hi Marisa, "2000+year old morals? How old are you morals?

 

[Norman]

If you believe my behavior will get you into your chosen afterlife then I suggest you start stocking up on ice cube trays.

I do not accept the tyrannical, homicidal, genocidal narcissist portrayed in the bible has any authority to judge me. I am far more moral than that god, and I'm just a human.

Norman: Hi Marisa, I see you are a disciple of Aristotle which explains your response very well and helps me to know where you are coming from. I don't believe in Aristotle's God no more than you do not believe in the God of the Bible. Am I assuming wrong?

 

[Norman]

Wow. That is just sad. Not wanting to interact with someone who you disagree with is a good solid definition of prejudice, and would lead to a very lonely and isolated life.

Actually, you may call it a waste of time, but more and more Americans support homosexual rights with each passing year. You and yours a dying breed.

Norman: Hi Shadow Wolf, same sex attraction is a minority and always will be. Just because the Supreme Court ruled for same sex marriage doesn't instantly make a minority a majority. Maybe we should bounce some polls around and see which direction this would sway?

 

[SomeRandom]

Norman: Hi Riverwolf, I hear that all the time that homosexuality is not a choice, however, did you find a gene to back that assumption up?

Did you find a gene for heterosexuality yet?

 

[Norman]

Did you find a gene for heterosexuality yet?

Norman: Hi SomeRandom, no I haven't.

 

[SomeRandom]

Norman: Hi Shadow Wolf, same sex attraction is a minority and always will be. Just because the Supreme Court ruled for same sex marriage doesn't instantly make a minority a majority. Maybe we should bounce some polls around and see which direction this would sway?

You do realize you don't have to be gay to support gay marriage rights, don't you? Many heterosexual people (particularly among the youth) support legal same sex marriage, so the "you and yours is a dying breed" is still an accurate statement, regardless of the size of the gay population.

 

[SomeRandom]

Norman: Hi SomeRandom, no I haven't.

Hi. So why call or imply that homosexuality is devoid of evidence of it not being a choice, then?

 

[Norman]

No, not here... yet. I was referring to some bitterness I still feel for being banned from another forum for expressing the same thoughts. I call that an abuse of power.

Norman: Hi ether-ore, don't fell isolated, I was a member of another religious forum that I thought accepted everyone and I was kicked off the forum for being a Mormon. You will find that as long as you do things here in a respectful manner you can freely express your views. I think this forum is awesome and a great place to debate and share and educate.

 

[Norman]

Hi. So why call or imply that homosexuality is devoid of evidence of it not being a choice, then?

Norman: Simply, because there is no evidence that it is not a choice biologically speaking. You said the same to me about heterosexuals and I said no.