Gender Apartheid

[ImmortalFlame]

Hamas declared war on Israel. Civilians get killed in wars.

In WWII, many more German civilians died than British citizens. Was Britian wrong to kill all those German civilians?

Ah, the old false equivalence argument again. Do you understand that there is a difference between civilians dying as a result of collateral damage in a war, and civilians dying as a direct consequence of war crimes?

Y'know, like these:

Israeli bombing of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Attacks on schools during the Israeli invasion of Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Attacks on health facilities during the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli airstrikes on municipal services in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tel al-Sultan attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza Strip mass graves - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Destruction of cultural heritage during the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli razing of cemeteries and necroviolence against Palestinians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip (2023–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza humanitarian crisis (2023–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Structural abuse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza Strip famine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of health workers in the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza Strip evacuations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of Alon Shamriz, Yotam Haim, and Samer Talalka - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Human shields in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sexual and gender-based violence against Palestinians during the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Allegations of genocide in the 7 October Hamas-led attack on Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And yes, the allies committed a lot of acts during world war 2 that, today, would constitute war crimes. The ideal position nowadays is to be of the belief that this is bad, and we should work to prevent it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Hamas declared war on Israel. Civilians get killed in wars.

In WWII, many more German civilians died than British citizens. Was Britian wrong to kill all those German civilians?

The war is in effect on since 48. So no, they didn't declare war, it has not ended.

 

[icehorse]

Ah, the old false equivalence argument again. Do you understand that there is a difference between civilians dying as a result of collateral damage in a war, and civilians dying as a direct consequence of war crimes?

Y'know, like these:

Israeli bombing of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Attacks on schools during the Israeli invasion of Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Attacks on health facilities during the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli airstrikes on municipal services in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tel al-Sultan attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza Strip mass graves - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Destruction of cultural heritage during the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli razing of cemeteries and necroviolence against Palestinians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip (2023–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza humanitarian crisis (2023–present) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Structural abuse - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza Strip famine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of health workers in the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gaza Strip evacuations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli incursions in the West Bank during the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Killing of Alon Shamriz, Yotam Haim, and Samer Talalka - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Human shields in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sexual and gender-based violence against Palestinians during the Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Allegations of genocide in the 7 October Hamas-led attack on Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And yes, the allies committed a lot of acts during world war 2 that, today, would constitute war crimes. The ideal position nowadays is to be of the belief that this is bad, and we should work to prevent it.

As long as you're relying on sources that misuse terms like "genocide" and "apartheid" I don't find your arguments to be credible.

 

[Ignatius A]

Not a claim we've made, and not something the question hinges on.

So, you failed to answer my question again and must openly admit that you actually approve of the mass slaughter of innocent civilians, regardless of their complicity or guilt in crimes.

I guess you approve of Hamas, then?

Well you whine about Israel killing civilians. Fine. It's obvious you know that hamas has no problems killing Jewish civilians and that when they claim to have no problems with Jews, thats a lie. So tell me why Israel should play by different rules then you allow for Hamas?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

As long as you're relying on sources that misuse terms like "genocide" and "apartheid" I don't find your arguments to be credible.

Ah yes, my sources - widely reported events summed up in Wikipedia pages, only one of the which has the heading "ALLEGATIONS of genocide" must clearly be biased.

Pull your head out.

 

[Ignatius A]

Hamas declared war on Israel. Civilians get killed in wars.

In WWII, many more German civilians died than British citizens. Was Britian wrong to kill all those German civilians?

Yes they were wrong but justified in doing so because Germany was going to kill every Brit until they were all dead or until Britain surrendered. The problem is the anti semites want different rules for hamas.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Well you whine about Israel killing civilians.

I know, what a weird thing to be upset about. Killing civilians. It's harmless.

Fine. It's obvious you know that hamas has no problems killing Jewish civilians

Yes, I do know that. Do you know how that doesn't justify other people doing the same thing?

and that when they claim to have no problems with Jews, thats a lie.

And what does that have to do with justifying killing civilians in response?

So tell me why Israel should play by different rules then you allow for Hamas?

You think I "allow" Hamas to commit war crimes? Huh?

No, I've always supported a military response to Hamas. I don't want ANYONE to commit war crimes because - and this is complicated, I know, but stick with me here - I THINK KILLING AND PUNISHING INNOCENT CIVILIANS FOR THE CRIMES OF GROUPS THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY A PART OF OR RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF IS BAD.

Crazy, I know, how I can have a consistent position which says "What Hamas did was bad, but it doesn't justify doing another bad thing in response".

It's a topsy-turvy concept.

 

[Koldo]

Well you whine about Israel killing civilians. Fine. It's obvious you know that hamas has no problems killing Jewish civilians and that when they claim to have no problems with Jews, thats a lie. So tell me why Israel should play by different rules then you allow for Hamas?

Because many people, me included, held Israel to a higher standard than Hamas. In other words, as something more than a terrorist group ruling over a territory.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yes they were wrong but justified in doing so because Germany was going to kill every Brit until they were all dead or until Britain surrendered

Never forget, folks: it's okay to commit war crimes and kill civilians en masse if you believe a particular enemy poses an existential threat to you, and you're justified linking innocent people to that enemy as well.

Just ignore the fact that this logic literally justifies Hamas, too. Just sweep that little nugget under the carpet.

 

[Ignatius A]

I know, what a weird thing to be upset about. Killing civilians. It's harmless.


Yes, I do know that. Do you know how that doesn't justify other people doing the same thing?


And what does that have to do with justifying killing civilians in response?


You think I "allow" Hamas to commit war crimes? Huh?

No, I've always supported a military response to Hamas. I don't want ANYONE to commit war crimes because - and this is complicated, I know, but stick with me here - I THINK KILLING AND PUNISHING INNOCENT CIVILIANS FOR THE CRIMES OF GROUPS THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY A PART OF OR RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF IS BAD.

Crazy, I know, how I can have a consistent position which says "What Hamas did was bad, but it doesn't justify doing another bad thing in response".

It's a topsy-turvy concept.

Until you can how me what steps hamas took on oct 7 to avoiding killing jews who they claim to have no problem with, I am not the least bit interested in your whining about killing civilians.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Until you can

You're so done. You can't even attempt to defend your actual position that killing civilians is actually totally justified.

I reiterate, you would make an ideal Hamas soldier. You would believe that killing Israeli civilians is justified if you believed Israel poses an existential threat to Palestinians.

 

[Ignatius A]

Because many people, me included, held Israel to a higher standard than Hamas. In other words, as something more than a terrorist group ruling over a territory.

Oh i see so hamas is allowed to kill innocent jews (the people that Hamas themselves claim to have no problem with) because you don't have very high standards for them?

 

[Ignatius A]

You're so done. You can't even attempt to defend your actual position that killing civilians is actually totally justified.

I reiterate, you would make an ideal Hamas soldier. You would believe that killing Israeli civilians is justified if you believed Israel poses an existential threat to Palestinians.

So you can't. As I figured.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Oh i see so hamas is allowed to kill innocent jews

Not a thing they said.

Please provide a direct quote of Koldo saying any such thing.

(the people that Hamas themselves claim to have no problem with)

Why do you keep repeating this as if it's at all shocking that a terrorist group that happily kill thousands of innocent people would lie?

because you don't have very high standards for them?

For terrorists, not so much. Do you believe all nation states should conduct their international policy in the same way as terrorists do?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

So you can't.

Because they don't, and I never claimed they did. And it's not relevent.

As I figured.

You believe killing civilians is fine. As I figured.

I THINK KILLING AND PUNISHING INNOCENT CIVILIANS FOR THE CRIMES OF GROUPS THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY A PART OF OR RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF IS BAD.

Do you agree with the above, or are you pro-war crimes?

 

[icehorse]

Ah yes, my sources - widely reported events summed up in Wikipedia pages, only one of the which has the heading "ALLEGATIONS of genocide" must clearly be biased.

Pull your head out.

As I said, ANY source that misuses terms like this should be viewed with skepticism.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

As I said, ANY source that misuses terms like this should be viewed with skepticism.

So you read all of my sources and found every single one "misuses" the term "genocide"?

In less than two minutes?

I don't know why I bother responding to your posts. You obviously didn't even try to read a single one, you just dismiss them because you believe it's okay to kill Muslim civilians.

 

[Ignatius A]

Not a thing they said.

Please provide a direct quote of Koldo saying any such thing.


Why do you keep repeating this as if it's at all shocking that a terrorist group that happily kill thousands of innocent people would lie?


For terrorists, not so much. Do you believe all nation states should conduct their international policy in the same way as terrorists do?

Good so you admit hamas is a terrorist group that lies and has no problem killing civilians. Glad we agree. Since all that's true Israel is justified in responding in kind to Hamas.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Good so you admit hamas is a terrorist group that lies and has no problem killing civilians.

I've literally said it repeatedly to you.

Glad we agree. Since all that's true Israel is justified in responding in kind to Hamas.

Wow. So you believe that since Hamas did a bad thing, that means Israel can respond whatever way it wants, including the mass death of civilians and an assortment of war crimes?

Out of curiosity, if I could demonstrate Israel committed any kind of war crime against Gaza or Palestine prior to October 7th, would that justify what Hamas did? Yes or no?

 

[icehorse]

So you read all of my sources and found every single one "misuses" the term "genocide"?

In less than two minutes?

I don't know why I bother responding to your posts. You obviously didn't even try to read a single one, you just dismiss them because you believe it's okay to kill Muslim civilians.

So I question your sources and you respond with a vicious, personal attack / strawman?

Not a good look for you.