Gender changes

[Maximilian]

It was a point to demonstrate the problem with your claim. Afterall, not even the black death had a 100% kill rate. But if you got it you was probably going to die. With bullying, there is definitely an increased risk of suicide. Just as thee are strong links between smoking and various illnesses.

Only if the victim ends up suffering from Depression. If they don't they will not commit suicide.

Unless, of course, you can present concrete medical evidence for a direct causal link between bullying and Depression. Can you?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

"Negative outcomes of bullying (for youth who bully others, youth who are bullied, and youth who both are bullied and bully others) may include: depression, anxiety, involvement in interpersonal violence or sexual violence, substance abuse, poor social functioning, and poor school performance, including lower grade point averages, standardized test scores, and poor attendance." -CDC (Emphasis mine.)

Depression when left untreated or if poorly treated WILL cause suicide.

The CDC does not say the same about bullying.

No one is claiming bullying ALWAYS causes suicide. It CAN be a FACTOR in suicide. Just as getting shot doesn't always kill you, but it can be a factor in killing you.

Untreated depression doesn't ALWAYS cause suicide either, by the way.

 

[Maximilian]

No one is claiming bullying ALWAYS causes suicide. It CAN be a FACTOR in suicide. Just as getting shot doesn't always kill you, but it can be a factor in killing you.

Untreated depression doesn't ALWAYS cause suicide either, by the way.

Then why are you disagreeing with me?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Only if the victim ends up suffering from Depression. If they don't they will not commit suicide.

Unless, of course, you can present concrete medical evidence for a direct causal link between bullying and Depression. Can you?

If you took the time to read what was provided to you then you have saw that link exists as well. But since you obviously havent considered or red what was provided, why should we give more for you to ignore?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

And those who are bullied but do not end up suffering from Depression never commit suicide.

So? That doesn't mean that bullying isn't a proximate cause of suicide in the cases where people DO end up suffering depression.

What is your fundamental point here? I don't understand what you're trying to claim. That bullying isn't a problem?

 

[Maximilian]

What's your point? Des their incidence of suicide INcrease or DEcrease after receiving GRT?

If the underlying mental health disorder(s) go untreated how will GRT help?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Then why are you disagreeing with me?

Because obviously we dont agree because of your claim that bullying doesnt cause suicide. Not always, but it certainly can and most definitely does.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If the underlying mental health disorder(s) go untreated how will GRT help?

Another example where you arent considering things you are provided with, as a mentioning treatment for that was also brought up, but you trolled on with nonsense.

 

[Maximilian]

If you took the time to read what was provided to you then you have saw that link exists as well. But since you obviously havent considered or red what was provided, why should we give more for you to ignore?

If you're referring to that CDC report, I read it and it doesn't support your claim of a direct causal link between bullying and suicide.

If that's not what you're talking about, chances are I missed it. But if you give me the link I'll consider it

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Then why are you disagreeing with me?

Because you claimed that bullying DOESN'T cause suicide. It does. No one is claiming it ALWAYS causes suicide. Very few things ALWAYS cause ANYTHING, that doesn't mean that things aren't demonstrably LIKELY to cause things.

Back to the shooting analogy... As discussed, being shot with a .22 won't ALWAYS kill you, however, it is LIKELY enough to kill (or cause significant harm) to you that we generally don't encourage or allow people to go around shooting others with a .22. Bullying is the same. It won't ALWAYS kill (or cause significant harm), but it is demonstrably LIKELY enough to do so that it shouldn't be encouraged.

We ESPECIALLY wouldn't encourage people to shoot demonstrably vulnerable people, like children or haemophiliacs with a .22, because the LIKELIHOOD of harm or death would be much higher. But even though the likelihood is higher, it wouldn't be an absolute certainty. The same is the case with bullying of vulnerable people.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If you're referring to that CDC report, I read it and it doesn't support your claim of a direct causal link between bullying and suicide.

If that's not what you're talking about, chances are I missed it. But if you give me the link I'll consider it

Read the whole thing, not just skim for quotemines.

What We Know about Bullying and Suicide Together • We know that bullying behavior and suicide-related behavior are closely related. This means youth who report any involvement with bullying behavior are more likely to report high levels of suicide-related behavior than youth who do not report any involvement with bullying behavior. • We know enough about the relationship between bullying and suicide-related behavior to make evidence-based recommendations to improve prevention efforts.

 

[Maximilian]

So? That doesn't mean that bullying isn't a proximate cause of suicide in the cases where people DO end up suffering depression.

What is your fundamental point here? I don't understand what you're trying to claim. That bullying isn't a problem?

Proximal cause, yes. Direct cause, absolutely not. Accordingly, the claim that bullying directly results in suicide is demonstrably false.

Regardless, the rise in physical, mental and/or sexual abuse incidents is an appalling trend that needs to be stopped and reversed.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Proximal cause, yes. Direct cause, absolutely not. Accordingly, the claim that bullying directly results in suicide is demonstrably false.

Regardless, the rise in physical, mental and/or sexual abuse incidents is an appalling trend that needs to be stopped and reversed.

It's not "demonstrably false", it's "not yet proven". They're different.

But you have goal post shifted from "bullying doesn't cause suicide" to accepting it as a "proximal cause". I'll take it. Just don't backpedal.

I'd love to see your data that shows there is a "rise in physical, mental and/or sexual abuse incidents ", as opposed to an increase in reporting. I firmly believe that such things were far more common until quite recently when people simply didn't talk about it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you're referring to that CDC report, I read it and it doesn't support your claim of a direct causal link between bullying and suicide.

If that's not what you're talking about, chances are I missed it. But if you give me the link I'll consider it

It actually does, to the point of stating that even those who are bullies are at a greater risk of suicide.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If the underlying mental health disorder(s) go untreated how will GRT help?

There are two types of medical intervention, those that treat the cause, and those that treat the symptoms. GRT treats the symptoms. Until or unless a treatment of the "cause" is made available, treating the symptoms is a valid medical treatment. No different to treating diabetes with insulin, or chronic pain with pain relief.

Now answer my question. Does their incidence of suicide INcrease or DEcrease after receiving GRT?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Good luck. I hope it works out well.

But just in case, ask your surgeon if they can keep your naughty bits on ice. You might want them to be sewn back on some day

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's not "demonstrably false", it's "not yet proven". They're different.

But you have goal post shifted from "bullying doesn't cause suicide" to accepting it as a "proximal cause". I'll take it. Just don't backpedal.

I'd love to see your data that shows there is a "rise in physical, mental and/or sexual abuse incidents ", as opposed to an increase in reporting. I firmly believe that such things were far more common until quite recently when people simply didn't talk about it.

Id love to his data that is presented coherently and not like a lame attempt at mining google for sources to shotgun copy/paste here.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Good luck. I hope it works out well.

But just in case, ask your surgeon if they can keep your naughty bits on ice. You might want them to be sewn back on some day

The testicles are removed, the spongy tissue for errections is removed, but pretty much the rest is reshaped rather than removed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Similarly, untreated Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) is always lethal

No, it isn't. You're just making up crap now.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

False analogy.

A shotgun blast to the head at close range is always lethal.

That's very different than getting shot in the arm with a .22.

Similarly, untreated Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) is always lethal but bullying isn't. And since bullying doesn't necessarily lead to MDD, it's disingenuous to say that bullying causes suicide.

Do you even know what MDD is, or are you just throwing out terms you learned? Because even untreated its not always lethal (and health professionals in general do not treat or approach it as terminal) but there is a high risk of suicide