Gender Ideology Harms Children

[Shadow Wolf]

Okay I get it. Anything written by Conservatives/Traditionalists must be wrong and bigoted. I'll remember this in future.

It's not that it's written by Conservatives, it's that it's misleading, it leaves a lot of information out so they can spin it in a Conservative manner, and it's overall not accurate. It twists a few bad things, such as how transsexuals are indeed at a higher risk of suicide, but it ignores the why (society - as we have learned from the struggles of homosexuals and other minorities who are treated poorly and abused by society), and it makes no mention of how much things improve once starting hormone replacement therapy and having genital surgery. In their attack, because the are so biased, they don't even include the lack of studies in improvements of quality of life in those who only receive hormone replacement therapy and do not have genital surgery, which is, naturally, a gap in knowledge that does need to be filled so we can have knowledge rather than a big question mark.

They are talking about the sexed nature of humanity and not sexual orientation.

"Human sexuality" refers to orientations, fetishes, kinks, sex acts, and everything sexually we do. Sex refers to physical traits. Gender refers to the outward expression and identified sex.They are doctors, yet these are 100-level med and psych concepts that have clearly defined and distinguished differences. They also neglected to mention that there is no XX/XY binary, and their are numerous possible combinations, many of which go undetected throughout a person's entire life because they cause no unusual or abnormal functioning that would give cause to test for such things. The person simply remains unaware, until the day they die, that they have any such difference.
And some of the "alternatives" are only discovered under specific conditions, such as a very late menarche that has yet to come or abnormal abdominal pains and bleeding from the penis. But even still, the differences are unknowable to anyone the person doesn't disclose such things to, giving us an idea into the basis that society does play in gender, and it's literally very superficial, and we only care when it falls outside of our "comfort zone," much in how homosexuality is outside of the comfort zone for many, which has them hating gays and even quoting junk science to support their claims. But this science is of a very slim minority and it does not hold up well in the peer review process at large.

This response ignores that interactivity of experience and brain, with respect to plasticity.

No, it doesn't, because such things are formed in utero, and they are assuming GD happens due to some event in life, and they are blatantly ignoring that transsexuals frequently do try to be content with their birth-assigned sex, much in how homosexuals attempt to live as heterosexuals, and the outcomes are not good. And, yes, there really is a such thing as a "transsexual brain" that although it doesn't look fully like a normal male or female brain, it does resemble the sex of the identified sex much more than it does the brain of the birth-assigned sex. It's much easier to spin something like homosexuality and GD into something that is all nurture when you dismiss nature, and when you dismiss nature you can insert your own ideological biases, in this case a Conservative ideological bias that denounces homosexuality and gender dysphoria as things of upbringing - all while dismissing the hard facts of nature being at work. But if you bring up "nature at work," then you have a smaller platform to stand on, because if it's something that just normally and naturally happens, much in the way something like Autism does (there is also a fairly high comorbidity between Asperger's Syndrome and GD, further establishing a genetic basis), it becomes harder to get people to resist normalizing them in a time where we don't tell people it's their fault if they are born a certain way. It also gets harder to dismiss once you bring up culture, because gender dysphoria is not a modern or culture bound syndrome (as is sometimes claimed) because we know transsexuals have existed before recorded history, and they have been found in cultures throughout the world.
Transsexuals (as well as homosexuals given the sources opposition towards them) are indeed just born that way.

 

[Melinda Rose]

One does not choose to be trans, or gay, or bi, or asexual, or even hetero. No more than we choose our nationality, native hair or skin color, ethnicity of our family or community, the language we learn to speak.

And yes, our actions cause reactions--and our reactions can affect how other people develop or behave. Making it clear to children that they MUST BE the gender their parents tell them from birth, when their biology and life experience is telling them otherwise, is a good way to make a person grow up crazy.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. Gender roles are taught so therefore you have the choice to follow them or not. Sexual preference is not the same people do not make a choice they just are what they are. Trans is not a sexual preference. How can you tie this all together? Being abnormal in relation to society is the definition of crazy.

 

[Mister Emu]

I always wonder when someone brings up XX and XY as objective gender. If they're not even related bachelor degrees, it's acceptable. But how is it possible that MDs who sign a statement like this don't know even about the XX male syndrome?

Perhaps if you read the statement you'd notice they include DSDs, or maybe you didn't know that DSDs are the medical conditions that are commonly called intersex.

Biology and other scientific fields should be approached objectively and analytically rather than cherry-picked with religious and/or political bias.

Unfortunately, gender as clinical field is highly politicized. Recently, a world-renowned transgender researcher and clinician was successfully slandered by political activists to get him removed from his clinic. This because it was his clinical practice to first attempt to alleviate gender dysphoria in young children before moving to affirmation therapy. Even though this was a successful practice in ~90% of his patients, he was still drug through the mud by activists to whom the idea of transgenderism being something other than intrinsic and immutable is unacceptable.

 

[Mister Emu]

"Human sexuality" refers to orientations, fetishes, kinks, sex acts, and everything sexually we do.

Context made it clear what was being spoken of.

They also neglected to mention that there is no XX/XY binary, and their are numerous possible combinations, many of which go undetected throughout a person's entire life because they cause no unusual or abnormal functioning that would give cause to test for such things

See my last response, they did refer to these cases.

No, it doesn't, because such things are formed in utero, and they are assuming GD happens due to some event in life, and they are blatantly ignoring that transsexuals frequently do try to be content with their birth-assigned sex, much in how homosexuals attempt to live as heterosexuals, and the outcomes are not good...

Transsexuals (as well as homosexuals given the sources opposition towards them) are indeed just born that way.

This goes against the statements of every major psychological organization I have read. Each includes social factors into the development of both homosexuality and gender dysphoria.

edit:
Again, this is not to say that they don't deserve criticism, just that we should make sure our criticism is aimed correctly at the harmful attitudes held and how those attitudes shape their reaction to the facts.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

This doesn't make sense to me at all. Gender roles are taught so therefore you have the choice to follow them or not. Sexual preference is not the same people do not make a choice they just are what they are. Trans is not a sexual preference. How can you tie this all together? Being abnormal in relation to society is the definition of crazy.

Sorry to hear it doesn't make sense to you. You should ask some people about their experiences with their sexual orientations and identities.
Yes, people just are what they are; some people are female with a male body, some are male with a female body, some are asexual in either kind of body--most people, however are male with a male body, or female with a female body. Likewise, some people are attracted sexually to men, while others are attracted to women, and some are attracted to both--regardless of what gender they identify with or what sex their body displays.
And no, that is not "the" definition of crazy, it's one definition, and fortunately it's not a definition that psychiatrists use to determine if a person has a problem and needs help. And heaven help us if civilization goes back to that kind of definition, because that's the grounds for denying people rights, jobs, property, dignity, and so on.
So, you think everyone should adhere to whatever the majority in society say or do, because to do otherwise is "crazy?" that's not crazy, that is STUPID.

 

[Father Heathen]

Drugs are something you choose to do or not do, but that choice is your responsibility isn't it?

Ultimately yes, but when someone is deeply depressed, they'll make irrational choices just to circumvent pain.

Choosing to be trans wouldn't you know you are coming against these things by making that decision?

Because it's not a choice. Why would someone make such a choice if it were?

If I am doing something that my family views as bad and they catch me doing it do I expect them to be happy? I knew that if they caught me they'd be upset and whatever the result is I should respect their decisions. Each of our actions cause reactions!

The only "choice" is between living a lie or being who you are. I would expect parents to want the latter for their children.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, you win - Rival, you're on your own.

Tbh, to be briefly off-topic, I'm pretty much OK with British spelling norms falling by the wayside in favour of an American-based global standard.

Adopt our spelling, and we're adopt the metric system. Deal?

 

[Melinda Rose]

So, you think everyone should adhere to whatever the majority in society say or do, because to do otherwise is "crazy?" that's not crazy, that is STUPID.

Defects and mistakes happen in all species. Will someone bother to find what is wrong with them or just give them stuff to shut up so they are no longer a problem? It doesn't seem to be about positive vibes and only self-hate and causing problems for everyone around them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Drugs are something you choose to do or not do, but that choice is your responsibility isn't it?

True, but being trans is not comparable to using drugs. With drug use, I'm seeking relief, I'm seeking escape, I'm seeking numbness. It's a boost of creativity, it's a way to socialize, and just sometimes the doctor just tells you to do it. But none of that is a core and fundamental part of identity.

Choosing to be trans wouldn't you know you are coming against these things by making that decision?

The hardships, the discrimination, the rejection, who would choose that? It sure isn't "****s and giggles," an "adventure," or a "whim." It's something that you just saw in the news about someone being violently attacked because they are trans - here lately it's been religious Conservative Republicans who have been working to even strip us of any rights and privileges they can.

If I am doing something that my family views as bad and they catch me doing it do I expect them to be happy?

What did you do that they viewed as bad? With some decisions and actions, they can eat a dick. With my family, that was how I felt over their thoughts of me going back to college.
Family isn't about blood, and no one should let a word hold them back.

I knew that if they caught me they'd be upset and whatever the result is I should respect their decisions. Each of our actions cause reactions!

If it's something that doesn't harm them, why shouldn't they get over it? And they can't get over the offending members actions or decisions, why should this offending member not move on without the disapproving family?

Gender roles are taught so therefore you have the choice to follow them or not.

Yes, but were not talking about roles, we are talking about identity.

Trans is not a sexual preference.

Actually, for some people, mostly--probably overwhelmingly nearly-entirely almost everyone--men, do have a fetish for transsexuals, MtF and FtM, with or without genital surgery.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Will someone bother to find what is wrong with these folks or just placate them so they are no longer a problem?

It's called respect. It's called listening. It's called letting people make their own choices, their own decisions, even if it means getting burnt to learn. But there have been plenty of studies that indicate that if transitioning involves burning, in nearly almost all cases it is society doing the burning. Nothing is wrong with us. We actually have unique brains, and this uniqueness, when allowed to shine through the surface, has been accepted and embraced in many cultures, with many cultures reserving important religious and leadership positions just for them.
And what, pray tell, is this "problem" that we are?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Context made it clear what was being spoken of.

See my last response, they did refer to these cases.

I can refer to Industrialism as horticulturalism, and make it understood in the context, but that doesn't make me correct. You either had the wrong term or the wrong definition, and you don't get points on a test for getting things mixed up. And it's not like we're talking about specialized terms, but very basic-level lifespan development students all over have been exposed to - concepts so well and clearly defined that and widely used that they don't even come up as a subject of homosexuality and transsexuals, but just by the simple development of a human, who early on is going become cognizant of some differences between boys and girls and identify as one and typically act normal for their birth sex ("tomboys" are often used as an example), and that eventually a person will begin to become interested in sex and develop desires and attractions that, although not entirely understood, have plenty of strong evidence to point at a genetic cause with some to indicate social, are not chosen but just happen. This is something that hordes of psych and med students are regularly exposed to, and they failed to properly label and define their position.
They should be as embarrassed as someone who has an article in National Geographic, as well as the editor, if they misidentified a country. Sure you can make it known in context that you meant, but there is a difference between Zambia and Zimbabwe.

This goes against the statements of every major psychological organization I have read. Each includes social factors into the development of both homosexuality and gender dysphoria.

They also include a very strong indication of genetic factors, things that are beyond the control of upbringing and environment because they have been set before someone is even born. Of course we know culture plays a role. The very body parts we view as sexual are strongly influenced by culture, but yet it's something all cultures do. And it's not like there aren't a bunch of mammals that get horny and enjoy sex, but even if some don't, they all know, instinctively, how to ****. Obviously nature is at work. And that's barely even examining the surface of the issue. An somewhat closer examination even reveals that changing sexes isn't too uncommon. It's obviously not as thoroughly documented as homosexuality, but it's common enough that even cannabis plants can do it under the right circumstances.
What exactly will we find as we journey deeper? We've already found transsexuals physically have a unique brain, even before the start of hormone replacement therapy, so we know, nature is hard at work. Sometimes they find social reasons, but they tend to often times be Freudian and do not equally apply to all, or even necessarily a majority (such as an absent father causing issues).

 

[Mister Emu]

This is something that hordes of psych and med students are regularly exposed to, and they failed to properly label and define their position.
They should be as embarrassed as someone who has an article in National Geographic, as well as the editor, if they misidentified a country. Sure you can make it known in context that you meant, but there is a difference between Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Maybe it is because I am in psychology and have the academic exposure that I don't see a great issue. One of the meanings, especially in biological terms, of sexuality is being sexual, as in sex differentiated. It simply is not an inaccurate use of the word; just a use that adds some confusion because of the common usage being tied to orientation or the expression of the sexual nature.

They also include a very strong indication of genetic factors, things that are beyond the control of upbringing and environment because they have been set before someone is even born.

You are confusing there being genetic factors with there being a genetic cause. It isn't an either/or situation it is one of both/and. Genetic, uterine environment, and life experience all work together to create our gender identity* and sexual orientation.

*Unlike homosexuality, I haven't read the full literature on this, only the second hand reports which, so far as I have seen, all academic reports list social factors as part of the cause.

Sometimes they find social reasons, but they tend to often times be Freudian and do not equally apply to all, or even necessarily a majority (such as an absent father causing issues).

I think you are under the misapprehension that I am talking about an "big" event or constant experience that leads to a condition. That is very rarely the case, and even then it still has to work with your biology. Money showed that you can't just make a transgender person, the biological impetus has to be there to catalyze the experiences.

 

[Mister Emu]

Gender roles are taught so therefore you have the choice to follow them or not.

Transgender isn't about gender roles, but about there being a distress at the biological sex.

 

[SomeRandom]

This doesn't make sense to me at all. Gender roles are taught so therefore you have the choice to follow them or not. Sexual preference is not the same people do not make a choice they just are what they are. Trans is not a sexual preference. How can you tie this all together? Being abnormal in relation to society is the definition of crazy.

There's more to identifying as a gender than whether or not you like to do housework or enjoy watching sports or whatever.
How do you define yourself as a woman?
You know what's abnormal? Genius level intellect. Not to mention every single sub culture in existence! That's quite a few "crazy" people.

 

[Jumi]

Being abnormal in relation to society is the definition of crazy.

Not really. Being abnormally smart, abnormally successful is rarely thought of as crazy. Atheists are sometimes thought of as crazy in theist-normative religious societies, but are they the definition of crazy?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Defects and mistakes happen in all species. Will someone bother to find what is wrong with them or just give them stuff to shut up so they are no longer a problem? It doesn't seem to be about positive vibes and only self-hate and causing problems for everyone around them.

classifying what is different as "defects and mistakes" is the start of the problem: THEY are different, THEY MUST CONFORM. Of course society doesn't need to adapt to the needs of any minority that's different--all those who are different must of course change themselves to meet society's expectations...it would be silly for society to make accommodations for people who are different, wouldn't it?

Or maybe, in an enlightened culture based on the notion of individual rights and freedom, society might decide to stop harassing and punishing those who are outside the mainstream, and help them be who they are and fit in as they will, rather than trying to force everyone into the same cookie-cutter mold and criticizing and persecuting those who don't fit in as well.

The problems that trans, gay, dark, foreign, etc., people experience is almost entirely because of the hatred from all those other people around them who don't want them to be able to fit in, unless they conform. Any self-hate comes from the pressures applied by family, peers, schools, churches and the rest of society; it's not inherent in the person who is different.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

The references look really shoddy.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Transgender isn't about gender roles, but about there being a distress at the biological sex.

That is true.
Unfortunately though, this recent demi girl, demi boy, transfeminine, transmasculine, non-binary unicorn trend, means anyone who simply enjoys clothes or has interests that are not traditionally assigned to their sex means they might be transgender.

 

[YmirGF]

I think one thing that stands out in this thread is that human animals are far more complex than we ever previously imagined. That's coming from a REAL conservative, LOL.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think one thing that stands out in this thread is that human animals are far more complex than we ever previously imagined. That's coming from a REAL conservative, LOL.

Aye, problems arise when people think they know how the world works.
Then, when something new pops up, they force fit into their existing understanding.
Reality demands the right to surprise & confound us.

Btw, you're not a real conservative....not dressed like that.