Gender reassignment/affirming surgery

[The Hammer]

Ah, I can better now see where the problem lies.

Yup. The mistake they are making is quite obvious.

 

[The Hammer]

When people start saying you don't "understand the technical side of it" that's how i know that what what follows is ideological mumbo jumbo. They say how "complicated" everything is, and it usually is because they make it that way. Everything is suddenly a Rube Goldberg device. It's akin to people saying, if I have to explain it to you then you won't understand, that's how you know they do t know the first thing about it.

Everything is a rube Goldberg device because absolutely everything is interconnected. That's just how life works.

 

[Ignatius A]

Everything is a rube Goldberg device because absolutely everything is interconnected. That's just how life works.

Are you sure you know what a rube goldberg device is?

 

[The Hammer]

Are you sure you know what a rube goldberg device is?

Yes. But instead of performing a simple task. It's just life itself.

Which (life) really is more complicated than people want it to be. No black and white, no this and that, only shades of sort ofs, greys, and spectrums. It's quite beautiful.

 

[VoidCat]

LOL in which # post did I use the word read?

@SkepticThinker. Said:

I'm sure they can read.

You responded

Prove they can

That implies you dont think Blind folk can read and need it proved to you that Blind people can read.

 

[Ignatius A]

Yes. But instead of performing a simple task. It's just life itself.

Which (life) really is more complicated than people want it to be. No black and white, no this and that, only shades of sort ofs, greys, and spectrums. It's quite beautiful.

So no idea.

Life is as complicated as you want to make it.

@SkepticThinker. Said:

You responded

That implies you dont think Blind folk can read and need it proved to you that Blind people can read.

Not with their eyes they can't. And that's what I said, they see SEE the same thing. Id give your project a C+

 

[VoidCat]

So no idea.

Life is as complicated as you want to make it.

Not with their eyes they can't. And that's what I said, they see SEE the same thing. Id give your project a C+

They still can read even without sight. And many still have some usable sight. Not enough to be completely usable but blindness is a spectrum. Kinda like how im nightblind and can't see well in dim light to the point the door disappears if i close my left eye and I can see the outline of the door but not well with both eyes open. I wouldn't be able to drive at night if i knew how to drive but i can see fine in regular light. Some blind folk can see a small portion like tunnel vision and some blind folk only see shadows or light. So yeah a little unless they totally blind would be able to see a bit.

Edit some with low vision may actually with large and contrasted print read with their eyes as well

 

[The Hammer]

So no idea.

Only in your mind.

Life is as complicated as you want to make it.

Life is (period). No need for the rest of those qualifiers.

 

[The Hammer]

Not with their eyes they can't.

Some very well can. You can be legally blind and still able to read. Large text for instance. Blind people don't see just "blackness".

Blindness is a spectrum.

 

[The Hammer]

Life's ultimate woman... Is a man.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Funny how I have to "deal with peop

Mind finishing the statement?

In not concerned about people being angry, I know people will be angry when I dont do whatever they think they can command me to do. If a lady teacher demands I call her "Mr" no go. I might call a doctor "Dr" since they earned that title. No trans person has earned my compliance or is entitled to it.

So where's the problem? If you wish to be uncivil to a person and understand that they are likely to be uncivil back, why complain about people "demanding" and "screeching" about that decision?

I think George Carlin said it well, "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners".

In that bit, he suggests with that we should refer to handicapped people as "defective" and slow learners as "stupid." He also is a comedian and in that bit (as serious as he may have been in his comedy) his attempts at making up "PC speech" actually come across as elegant rather than clunky (unless your lazy, or rather, linguistically energy efficient?). Since the video hasn't aged well, I would say that Carlin doesn't understand the dynamic and impactful quality of language.

Given that Carlin is engaging in satire, let me throw out a favorite quote of mine:

"Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying." - Terry Pratchett.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If you dissect this definition it amounts to nothing tangible. This is very much in keeping with the definitions you see in a lot of laws, so you are in good company. But none of these definitions hold any water or real meaning.

Mind specifying the laws?

In terms of my definition, let's dissect deeper. What are the things that we use to determine gender? Appearance such as clothes, the words people use to describe other people, how we treat each other according to roles and such.

I purposely leave out genitalia and secondary sexual features because the former aren't visible typically and the latter can be manipulated or ambiguous.

So, of the things mentioned above, what aren't social constructs malleable by time and culture?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Guitar, I think you are on to something; but calling it a social construct confuses me. Isn't it more complicated than that? If society could determine my gender then I'd be like modeling clay, but I'm more stubborn than a dead cow.

Well, I do think "social construct" is complicated in and of itself. I do think there are biological influences as well, including innate response mechanisms, but how we relate to one another socially is really the crux of the matter of "gender." Like it or not, society does mold us to some extent. To quote Ray Bradbury "God, how we get our fingers in each other's clay" (From Something Wicked This Way Comes).

Obviously there has been a problem. Society has gone too far in the direction of exclusion, and now we are trying to correct and be more inclusive. We need more character, more warmth. This is what has to increase. Without these any social renewal is probably doomed.

Spot on, and well said!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Prove they can

Ever notice the little bumps on signs?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Everything is a rube Goldberg device because absolutely everything is interconnected. That's just how life works.

Life is the ultimate kludge. Just take a look at the recurrent laryngeal nerve. And then realize that the largest of dinosaurs had that never too. In the biguns' it would have been about 90 feet long. That is one heck of a detour.

A monument of inefficiency: the presumed course of the recurrent laryngeal nerve in sauropod dinosaurs - Acta Palaeontologica Polonica

www.app.pan.pl

 

[Shadow Wolf]

people who are made and whose humanity is questionable.

In my opinion it is not. We homo sapiens do not have a monopoly on the term human, and indeed some of our ancestors that predate sapeins would basically be indistinguishable to us in a crowd of us. We'd think of them as human. Why should test tube babies be any different?

 

[Brickjectivity]

In my opinion it is not. We homo sapiens do not have a monopoly on the term human, and indeed some of our ancestors that predate sapeins would basically be indistinguishable to us in a crowd of us. We'd think of them as human. Why should test tube babies be any different?

I agree, and I think there is something wrong with making a creature that feels human but will not be accepted as human. If its a human from a test tube and has to live believing its a human then we are responsible for it. I don't know how to make that happen, but whoever makes the test tube baby should make it well enough that humans will accept that person.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Ever notice the little bumps on signs?

Provided one can even locate said sign. ;0)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If society could determine my gender then I'd be like modeling clay, but I'm more stubborn than a dead cow.

Nothing of me is original. I am the combined efforts of everyone I've ever known. (Chuck Palahniuk)
That's basically true and we humans and society work. If we weren't to some degree like molding clay it would be impossible to communicate as we wouldn't be able to conform to our society's communition standards.

I agree, and I think there is something wrong with making a creature that feels human but will not be accepted as human. If its a human from a test tube and has to live believing its a human then we are responsible for it. I don't know how to make that happen, but whoever makes the test tube baby should make it well enough that humans will accept that person.

Just treat the child like a regular person. Most people won't even know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Provided one can even locate said sign. ;0)

Yeah, that's not really funny. Most people we call blind actually can see some to various degrees (especially light) and some learn to see by echolocation. I've even seen a couple videos of a blind person driving.